dacubz145
Deity
What do you mean by compromise scenario?
Half of what doesnt exist?
Half of what doesnt exist?
Modern Alliances
- Thread starter dacubz145
- Start date
c13Garrison
Warlord
Well, compromise as in accurate vs approximate.
If it is a "historical" scenario, then all ship types should be represented. Even lumping the Iron Dukes & King George V's in with the Neptunes still yields a lot of UUs that "should" be in a WWI scenario. However, I am sure half of the 3D models for the projected 14 English UUs do not exist, so some compromise will have to be arrived at in the area of historical accuracy.
And this is just England, mind you. So, world-wide there will probably be quite a few ships that will share 3D models, and furthermore models which don't really match up with the real-life ship they are meant to represent.
If it is a "historical" scenario, then all ship types should be represented. Even lumping the Iron Dukes & King George V's in with the Neptunes still yields a lot of UUs that "should" be in a WWI scenario. However, I am sure half of the 3D models for the projected 14 English UUs do not exist, so some compromise will have to be arrived at in the area of historical accuracy.
And this is just England, mind you. So, world-wide there will probably be quite a few ships that will share 3D models, and furthermore models which don't really match up with the real-life ship they are meant to represent.
dacubz145
Deity
As i said lets get the units i already have listed down, get the stats for those, and then you can add the list of the uus that you have found art for
We can implement those into te mod and then from there we cna make add more and worry about art down the road
We can implement those into te mod and then from there we cna make add more and worry about art down the road
c13Garrison
Warlord
Alright, that makes it a much simpler project. I'll get it done by Monday morning.
c13Garrison
Warlord
Ok, Good mor- ...err, day. :]
Progress report-
All ship types have combat factors and their Type bonuses (required, for example, to make torpedoes successful against large warships). Combat factors will in Large measure be a direct correlation to weight of broadside & sophistication of gunnery. Contrarily, Defense (armor/damage-control/seamanship) will in the main be represented by withdrawal ratings; i.e., ensuring the ship survives combat.
Speed will be a measure on how far the given unit could travel at 2/3's speed in roughly 8 days, given the impracticality of steaming at flank for the kind of distances involved in this scenario.
What I need is an estimate of how much work (hammers) a major production center generates in this scenario so as to appropriately apply unit cost factors. Can you tell me how many hammers London can produce in one turn?
Progress report-
All ship types have combat factors and their Type bonuses (required, for example, to make torpedoes successful against large warships). Combat factors will in Large measure be a direct correlation to weight of broadside & sophistication of gunnery. Contrarily, Defense (armor/damage-control/seamanship) will in the main be represented by withdrawal ratings; i.e., ensuring the ship survives combat.
Speed will be a measure on how far the given unit could travel at 2/3's speed in roughly 8 days, given the impracticality of steaming at flank for the kind of distances involved in this scenario.
What I need is an estimate of how much work (hammers) a major production center generates in this scenario so as to appropriately apply unit cost factors. Can you tell me how many hammers London can produce in one turn?
dacubz145
Deity
Sounds good!
The thing is I am just now putting in buildings, so I don't know hammer count yet. I would say put the largest ship at a cost of 1000, and then base the rest of of that, and then once hammers are in placed we can adjust as necessary
The thing is I am just now putting in buildings, so I don't know hammer count yet. I would say put the largest ship at a cost of 1000, and then base the rest of of that, and then once hammers are in placed we can adjust as necessary
c13Garrison
Warlord
Okie-doke. Just for clarity, what I am going for is real-world build times for major warships, so a QE Super-Dreadnought should take about 15 months, or 60 turns in your game. Would that disrupt game balance? It would mean the whole city could build nothing else for that whole time.
It would almost make sense, given that warship production slacked off considerably once major hostilities had been entered. There are too many necessities in a major war, and partial hulls just got left on the slipways in many nations.
It would almost make sense, given that warship production slacked off considerably once major hostilities had been entered. There are too many necessities in a major war, and partial hulls just got left on the slipways in many nations.
dacubz145
Deity
well it depends what you expect non-naval costs to be
What would you expect would be a normal time to build an infantry or machine gun?
What would you expect would be a normal time to build an infantry or machine gun?
dacubz145
Deity
Where do you have it? Is it in the mods folder? Make sure its bts and bts is updated as well
dacubz145
Deity
Can you put up a screenshot of the main screen after you load it?
c13Garrison
Warlord
@DaCubz;
Sorry for the delay, I was sick for a couple days. Well, infantry/mg costs. In "real" terms, what we need to do is figure out what volume of manpower England was able to send into France after the various bloodbaths, and from that determine what the needed "training" time was for a given number of men- assuming of course that it is possible to translate a single 'unit' in Civ into a given number of soldiers. England committed 5,400,000 soldiers to Flanders & France over the 4 years of the war.
In practice, if the men were needed, their training would just be shortened of course. So, it depends upon how "realistic" you feel the scenario should be. &, I'm just using England as a test case because it is relatively easy to judge her production values, as well as the fact that she should be able to be the pre-eminent naval power, at least until such time as America decides to invest her production in surpassing her.
I suppose if 4 of her 8 cities are building ships for ~15 months, the other 4 should be able to build units at a sufficient rate to compensate for the units the other cities would be raising, since a Real city could "build" more than one thing at a time. So, whatever the "rate/cost" of infantry turns out to be, it should likely be discounted by up to 50% to compensate.
The downside is if you had an England that did not Want to build ships, she could raise twice as much manpower as she otherwise could have. Many pros & cons to consider.
Sorry for the delay, I was sick for a couple days. Well, infantry/mg costs. In "real" terms, what we need to do is figure out what volume of manpower England was able to send into France after the various bloodbaths, and from that determine what the needed "training" time was for a given number of men- assuming of course that it is possible to translate a single 'unit' in Civ into a given number of soldiers. England committed 5,400,000 soldiers to Flanders & France over the 4 years of the war.
In practice, if the men were needed, their training would just be shortened of course. So, it depends upon how "realistic" you feel the scenario should be. &, I'm just using England as a test case because it is relatively easy to judge her production values, as well as the fact that she should be able to be the pre-eminent naval power, at least until such time as America decides to invest her production in surpassing her.
I suppose if 4 of her 8 cities are building ships for ~15 months, the other 4 should be able to build units at a sufficient rate to compensate for the units the other cities would be raising, since a Real city could "build" more than one thing at a time. So, whatever the "rate/cost" of infantry turns out to be, it should likely be discounted by up to 50% to compensate.
The downside is if you had an England that did not Want to build ships, she could raise twice as much manpower as she otherwise could have. Many pros & cons to consider.
dacubz145
Deity
No idea, it should work, that is very odd, something is wrong with your game
try my eurocentrism mod and see if that works, depending on that it can help to solve the problem (link below)
Could have sworn i responded to this
chances you can post the excel document asap? the UU's arent necessary yet but the unit classes arec13Garrison
Warlord
Hai! Will do as soon as I get home, so by midnight Chicago time.
Its going to look different than you might expect, but the values and numbers all work out.
Its going to look different than you might expect, but the values and numbers all work out.
c13Garrison
Warlord
Ok, this should be the file as-is, without all UUs as requested.
Build costs are Large, as they attempt to reproduce accurate build times. (based on a 300 hammer city)
Movement capability is Also large, as they attempt to reproduce accurate travel times.
NOTE; Accurate build & travel times do no guarantee a Playable game.
I have been thinking about this a lot as I've gone through my books gathering data on the missing UUs. With "real world" movement speeds, the German fleet could sortie from Wilhelmshaven, bombard the English coast, and return safely to port with ZERO chance of the English intercepting them. Also, realistic Build times mean that one city will Only be able to work on one thing for a long time, when in fact real world cities can produce many things at the same time.
In short, I am not sure my "ideal" scheme for naval units will work. It will require playtesting, or perhaps your own experience is sufficient to foresee the results already. Never the less, here is the start of my idea.
Build costs are Large, as they attempt to reproduce accurate build times. (based on a 300 hammer city)
Movement capability is Also large, as they attempt to reproduce accurate travel times.
NOTE; Accurate build & travel times do no guarantee a Playable game.
I have been thinking about this a lot as I've gone through my books gathering data on the missing UUs. With "real world" movement speeds, the German fleet could sortie from Wilhelmshaven, bombard the English coast, and return safely to port with ZERO chance of the English intercepting them. Also, realistic Build times mean that one city will Only be able to work on one thing for a long time, when in fact real world cities can produce many things at the same time.
In short, I am not sure my "ideal" scheme for naval units will work. It will require playtesting, or perhaps your own experience is sufficient to foresee the results already. Never the less, here is the start of my idea.
dacubz145
Deity
Thanks, I appreciate it, ill try to implement it quickly and then we can test it and see what adjustments we need to make
dacubz145
Deity
C13, the unit classes are placed in, and im almost done putting in the German navy, then I will put in the British, then the rest to follow
any chance you can prove me information on where most of these ships should be docked to start the game (August 1914), right now I'm just putting them all in one city and i will spread them out later, but can you possibly tell me where these units should be for each country?
any chance you can prove me information on where most of these ships should be docked to start the game (August 1914), right now I'm just putting them all in one city and i will spread them out later, but can you possibly tell me where these units should be for each country?
c13Garrison
Warlord
A fascinating question! I'll try to look those up tonight. The lesser naval powers will be the tricky ones.
The UUs I didn't do just have generic stats for their class type now, correct?
I am having an unfortunate issue with my DSL at home, and its preventing me from downloading anything that takes longer than 2 or 3 minutes, so at the moment I very much apologize, I can't even help test the Naval values I designed and love.
The low values of the smaller ships was designed to correct an issue with scaling and with shore bombardment. Now a destroyer if Attacked by the guns of a dreadnaught should get pulverized, while a Dreadnaught attacked by the torpedoes of a destroyer is a much more even affair. Also, a destroyer will now do much less meaningful damage to a land unit in a bombardment attack.
The UUs I didn't do just have generic stats for their class type now, correct?
I am having an unfortunate issue with my DSL at home, and its preventing me from downloading anything that takes longer than 2 or 3 minutes, so at the moment I very much apologize, I can't even help test the Naval values I designed and love.
The low values of the smaller ships was designed to correct an issue with scaling and with shore bombardment. Now a destroyer if Attacked by the guns of a dreadnaught should get pulverized, while a Dreadnaught attacked by the torpedoes of a destroyer is a much more even affair. Also, a destroyer will now do much less meaningful damage to a land unit in a bombardment attack.
