c13Garrison
Warlord
Ok, cool. I'll think about the project overnight. I'm sure I'll have a few questions for you tomorrow on how you'd like it done!
Modern Alliances
- Thread starter dacubz145
- Start date
dacubz145
Deity
Heres the spreadsheet, its fairly simple
Couple of points
-Under each unit class in yellow, I listed all the unit classes I have art for in the mod currently
-This is converted from Modern Alliances, so there are probably some that don't belong (ex ships that were scrapped prior to the start of WW1, or ships outside of European, American, Cuban, Mexican or Ottoman navies, as those are the only countries in the scenario). Please simply make these texts red (don't delete)
-Expense means the upkeep, so for units that require a lot of upkeep (therefore only large countries can upkeep them) this should be 1 or 2
-There are 3 others (create more if you want) this can be anything from +50% vs destroyers, to +10% on coast, to 15% bombardment, to 10% withdrawal chance, to 5% interception, to 5%collataral damage
-If the UU is the same as the base class (ex. if the wickes Class destroyer, and the simple destroyer unit both have combat of 28) no need to place the combat score again, just leave it blank. So for the UU only place it if it is different then the unit class. I will assume all others pertain to all UU's unless otherwise stated.
-After you do the UU's already listed, I would like to add more. Please add any that you find art for on the website. Please color these texts green and after the others provide the URL
-You can also add units that there are no art for, but you believe are significant to the war (I'd like to see as many UU's as possible), please make these texts blue and I will see what I can do for art
Thanks
Couple of points
-Under each unit class in yellow, I listed all the unit classes I have art for in the mod currently
-This is converted from Modern Alliances, so there are probably some that don't belong (ex ships that were scrapped prior to the start of WW1, or ships outside of European, American, Cuban, Mexican or Ottoman navies, as those are the only countries in the scenario). Please simply make these texts red (don't delete)
-Expense means the upkeep, so for units that require a lot of upkeep (therefore only large countries can upkeep them) this should be 1 or 2
-There are 3 others (create more if you want) this can be anything from +50% vs destroyers, to +10% on coast, to 15% bombardment, to 10% withdrawal chance, to 5% interception, to 5%collataral damage
-If the UU is the same as the base class (ex. if the wickes Class destroyer, and the simple destroyer unit both have combat of 28) no need to place the combat score again, just leave it blank. So for the UU only place it if it is different then the unit class. I will assume all others pertain to all UU's unless otherwise stated.
-After you do the UU's already listed, I would like to add more. Please add any that you find art for on the website. Please color these texts green and after the others provide the URL
-You can also add units that there are no art for, but you believe are significant to the war (I'd like to see as many UU's as possible), please make these texts blue and I will see what I can do for art
Thanks
c13Garrison
Warlord
Understood, and processing (will have more time tomorrow night after work than tonight), but I don't see an actual link to the spreadsheet.
dacubz145
Deity
Well this is just simply embarrassing 
c13Garrison
Warlord
While I am waiting to find out how and where to access the spreadsheet, I would like to toss out a very fundamental warship concept thought for your opinion & AoB's.
In WWI (and even WWII) experience, Battle Cruisers, Armored Cruisers, Light Cruisers, Pre-Dreadnaughts, all suffered calamitous explosions and sank. If in Civ IV you sailed a stack of 10 Battle Cruisers up against 10 Battle Cruisers of equal strength you would get on the odds 5 destroyed from each stack. This would not be far from what one would expect in reality.
However, Dreadnaughts & Super-Dreadnaughts did Not suffer such losses. In fact, the British Queen Elizabeth's at Jutland took quite a beating without serious loss of operational capability. This was due to their armor & protection being taken seriously. A stack of 10 Super-Dreadnaughts vs their equal opponents should Not realistically expect to suffer 50% losses of each side; I would argue more like 20% losses, with several damaged ships of each side limping away seeking safety of a friendly port.
I would like to propose that Super-Dreadnaughts (& to a lesser extent Dreadnaughts) have a high innate Withdrawal chance hard-coded so-as to more closely replicate real world survivability. I would propose withdrawal rates of 40-50% for Super-dreadnaughts, and 20-30% for dreadnaughts. Withdrawal promotions could Still be stacked onto these ships, providing for a ship that is so well constructed that it could survive 2 or 3 mortal attacks before she is finally sunk.
What are your opinions?
-- & Spreadsheet Link detected. :]
In WWI (and even WWII) experience, Battle Cruisers, Armored Cruisers, Light Cruisers, Pre-Dreadnaughts, all suffered calamitous explosions and sank. If in Civ IV you sailed a stack of 10 Battle Cruisers up against 10 Battle Cruisers of equal strength you would get on the odds 5 destroyed from each stack. This would not be far from what one would expect in reality.
However, Dreadnaughts & Super-Dreadnaughts did Not suffer such losses. In fact, the British Queen Elizabeth's at Jutland took quite a beating without serious loss of operational capability. This was due to their armor & protection being taken seriously. A stack of 10 Super-Dreadnaughts vs their equal opponents should Not realistically expect to suffer 50% losses of each side; I would argue more like 20% losses, with several damaged ships of each side limping away seeking safety of a friendly port.
I would like to propose that Super-Dreadnaughts (& to a lesser extent Dreadnaughts) have a high innate Withdrawal chance hard-coded so-as to more closely replicate real world survivability. I would propose withdrawal rates of 40-50% for Super-dreadnaughts, and 20-30% for dreadnaughts. Withdrawal promotions could Still be stacked onto these ships, providing for a ship that is so well constructed that it could survive 2 or 3 mortal attacks before she is finally sunk.
What are your opinions?
-- & Spreadsheet Link detected. :]
dacubz145
Deity
I don't see any problem for that, whatever you see is fit, simply just put a withdrawal % under the other category, I think that could play in well
c13Garrison
Warlord
I'm afraid I can't access the file. I try opening it with winzip and it just immediately shuts down and the windows disappear. :\
Is there another way you can post or share it?
I'll try 7-zip when I get home. I should've tried that from the start.
Is there another way you can post or share it?
I'll try 7-zip when I get home. I should've tried that from the start.
dacubz145
Deity
Try WinRAR, I opened it with that no problem
IF not I could maybe try to post it on googledocs
IF not I could maybe try to post it on googledocs
c13Garrison
Warlord
File on hand. I'll start working on it this week- any preference for a delivery time?
dacubz145
Deity
I would like it if you reuploaded it prior to adding additional UU's, just incase I get to it. But currently I am working on improvements/rotes for the map, then comes buildings, then units, so it will be a bit until I get to the units
Periodic updates/questions would be appreciated though!
Periodic updates/questions would be appreciated though!
c13Garrison
Warlord
Will do! Here's my first question though;
If I have a complete blank slate for assigning values that's wonderful if naval units are entirely separate from land/air. However, due to shore bombardment, naval values will intersect with land unit values. So, is there a core value you would like a key naval unit to have, so shore bombardment will factor in the way you foresee?
If I have a complete blank slate for assigning values that's wonderful if naval units are entirely separate from land/air. However, due to shore bombardment, naval values will intersect with land unit values. So, is there a core value you would like a key naval unit to have, so shore bombardment will factor in the way you foresee?
dacubz145
Deity
Highest strength value should be around 40 probably
c13Garrison
Warlord
DaCubz, do you have different promotions between 2.8 & 2.9, or if I look at my 2.8 promotions list will that cover them all?
dacubz145
Deity
This is not going to be MA 2.9
as I said, the way to make the most accurate/fun/playable scenario is to have a mod solely dedicated to the scenario. I will upload the mod for you to take a look at (although its still called MA, I haven't come up with a new name)
Modern Alliances will continue to be a mod concentrated on the 20th century, but scenarios will come in separate mods
As for promotions, not sure why this applies? I haven't gone through promotions yet, but anything you want promotion wise, you can just apply to the unit itself w/o promotions.
But promotions will probably look the same
as I said, the way to make the most accurate/fun/playable scenario is to have a mod solely dedicated to the scenario. I will upload the mod for you to take a look at (although its still called MA, I haven't come up with a new name)
Modern Alliances will continue to be a mod concentrated on the 20th century, but scenarios will come in separate mods
As for promotions, not sure why this applies? I haven't gone through promotions yet, but anything you want promotion wise, you can just apply to the unit itself w/o promotions.
But promotions will probably look the same
dacubz145
Deity
Here's the mod if your interested
http://www.fast-files.com/getfile.aspx?file=72552
Since ive uploaded it, ive done all the improvements on German land, and everything west of Germany (basically Russia, AH, Italy, Ottoman, Balkans to go)
http://www.fast-files.com/getfile.aspx?file=72552
Since ive uploaded it, ive done all the improvements on German land, and everything west of Germany (basically Russia, AH, Italy, Ottoman, Balkans to go)
c13Garrison
Warlord
Gottcha. I was just asking about promotions so I would be sure I knew what was possible. If I am making DNs & SDNs more resistant to sinking by boosting withdrawal, I wanted to be sure I took into account enhanced promotions, so as to avoid sink-proof ships.
dacubz145
Deity
Ahh gotcha that makes sense, ya just assume similar promotions
c13Garrison
Warlord
Here's a question Da', how many moves is it from New York to London, and how many turns do you want it to take? I should know the time-scale you're running things at so I can set my speeds correctly.
Do you want it realistic, or shorter than that for game-play issues?
Do you want it realistic, or shorter than that for game-play issues?
dacubz145
Deity
New York to London (East West wise) is 119 plots, but these also is a 11 plot difference N/S wise, so that might not be the most accurate
More accurate (since theeres a 2 plot N/S difference) is there is 112 plots between Brest, France and NY
This may seem a lot but keep in mind the Atlantic is a realistic size, and therefore takes over 1/3 the map....
Based it off 4 turns a month, and if that changes I can change the speeds based on it
More accurate (since theeres a 2 plot N/S difference) is there is 112 plots between Brest, France and NY
This may seem a lot but keep in mind the Atlantic is a realistic size, and therefore takes over 1/3 the map....
Based it off 4 turns a month, and if that changes I can change the speeds based on it
c13Garrison
Warlord
Roger. So, I think what I'm going to do is highlight all the significant ships that should ideally be in the mod, but then come up with a compromise scenario for a reality check.
As is, I see 14 UUs needed for England alone, and I'm sure half of them don't exist.
As is, I see 14 UUs needed for England alone, and I'm sure half of them don't exist.
