Modern Alliances

[c13Garrison]

I just re-visited the tech-tree forum that we used last summer and re-read all my posts. I didn't realize I'd written so much. lol

You're still setting population for your world map at 1900 levels Da?

 

[dacubz145]

Well i set them at 1910 population levels for the US, im going left to right on the map, im assuming europe is gonna give me a lot more trouble, for cities in countries without easily accessible census info (mexico Cuba so far) i look for the closest years and guestimate, most are fairly easy

 

[c13Garrison]

Gottcha. So, on the scale of map you're using, how many cities in Britain, 3?

 

[dacubz145]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=20987
Im using this map so theres much more than 3, probably 8? I don't have it open so that im estimating. That isnt counting ireland

 

[c13Garrison]

Oh cool. Forgive me, I didn't know it was that big.

Say, since you're using so many UU ships & ship classes in this, do you happen to have included GeneralMatt's Edgar Quinet French armored cruiser? Its a beautiful 6-stack ship, despite the fact that it only carries the armament of a ship half its displacement. You'd need 3 of them to have a chance at sinking a pre-drednaught.

 

[dacubz145]

I haven't gotten to the UU's yet, although I have collected all the xml and the art for them, and they are in the mod folder, I haven't actually placed them in yet. I'm not sure if I do have that unit in, I most likely do, but if not it will be added

if I set up a spreadsheet of all the naval classes of the period, with the UU's as well, do you think you could help me fill it out with costs, strengths, movements etc? It would help a lot in the accuracy as well as the time it takes for me to make the scenario

Either chance either of you can help with creating the scenario? the city populations need to be completed and if I could have someone help me with that it would really spead up the process, im about 2/3 done with the cities.

 

[c13Garrison]

Wow DaCUbz, that sounds ...awesome. I'd really enjoy something like that, sure- assuming Aob86 is cool with it. And also assuming we can all cross-check and critique the work!

Now, I remember when we were working on 2.8, we had a s/s upon which we assigned values and capabilities. Is that work off the scale now? As I recall, dreadnaughts & battlecruisers had factor ratings in the 100-120 scale, very different from stock Civ. Are we shifting back to a lower-value system (meaning one where Battleships are at roughly 40), or are the combat factors entirely undetermined at this point?

 

[dacubz145]

ok I can try to set up a spreadsheet fairly quickly

As for the scale, keep in mind that this is for the WW1 mod so only WW1 vessels are in, so the scale can be different

 

[c13Garrison]

Ok, cool. I'll think about the project overnight. I'm sure I'll have a few questions for you tomorrow on how you'd like it done!

 

[dacubz145]

Heres the spreadsheet, its fairly simple

Couple of points
-Under each unit class in yellow, I listed all the unit classes I have art for in the mod currently
-This is converted from Modern Alliances, so there are probably some that don't belong (ex ships that were scrapped prior to the start of WW1, or ships outside of European, American, Cuban, Mexican or Ottoman navies, as those are the only countries in the scenario). Please simply make these texts red (don't delete)
-Expense means the upkeep, so for units that require a lot of upkeep (therefore only large countries can upkeep them) this should be 1 or 2
-There are 3 others (create more if you want) this can be anything from +50% vs destroyers, to +10% on coast, to 15% bombardment, to 10% withdrawal chance, to 5% interception, to 5%collataral damage
-If the UU is the same as the base class (ex. if the wickes Class destroyer, and the simple destroyer unit both have combat of 28) no need to place the combat score again, just leave it blank. So for the UU only place it if it is different then the unit class. I will assume all others pertain to all UU's unless otherwise stated.
-After you do the UU's already listed, I would like to add more. Please add any that you find art for on the website. Please color these texts green and after the others provide the URL
-You can also add units that there are no art for, but you believe are significant to the war (I'd like to see as many UU's as possible), please make these texts blue and I will see what I can do for art

Thanks

 

[c13Garrison]

Understood, and processing (will have more time tomorrow night after work than tonight), but I don't see an actual link to the spreadsheet.

 

[dacubz145]

Well this is just simply embarrassing

 

[c13Garrison]

While I am waiting to find out how and where to access the spreadsheet, I would like to toss out a very fundamental warship concept thought for your opinion & AoB's.

In WWI (and even WWII) experience, Battle Cruisers, Armored Cruisers, Light Cruisers, Pre-Dreadnaughts, all suffered calamitous explosions and sank. If in Civ IV you sailed a stack of 10 Battle Cruisers up against 10 Battle Cruisers of equal strength you would get on the odds 5 destroyed from each stack. This would not be far from what one would expect in reality.

However, Dreadnaughts & Super-Dreadnaughts did Not suffer such losses. In fact, the British Queen Elizabeth's at Jutland took quite a beating without serious loss of operational capability. This was due to their armor & protection being taken seriously. A stack of 10 Super-Dreadnaughts vs their equal opponents should Not realistically expect to suffer 50% losses of each side; I would argue more like 20% losses, with several damaged ships of each side limping away seeking safety of a friendly port.

I would like to propose that Super-Dreadnaughts (& to a lesser extent Dreadnaughts) have a high innate Withdrawal chance hard-coded so-as to more closely replicate real world survivability. I would propose withdrawal rates of 40-50% for Super-dreadnaughts, and 20-30% for dreadnaughts. Withdrawal promotions could Still be stacked onto these ships, providing for a ship that is so well constructed that it could survive 2 or 3 mortal attacks before she is finally sunk.

What are your opinions?

-- & Spreadsheet Link detected. :]

 

[dacubz145]

I don't see any problem for that, whatever you see is fit, simply just put a withdrawal % under the other category, I think that could play in well

 

[c13Garrison]

I'm afraid I can't access the file. I try opening it with winzip and it just immediately shuts down and the windows disappear. :\

Is there another way you can post or share it?

I'll try 7-zip when I get home. I should've tried that from the start.

 

[dacubz145]

Try WinRAR, I opened it with that no problem

IF not I could maybe try to post it on googledocs

 

[c13Garrison]

File on hand. I'll start working on it this week- any preference for a delivery time?

 

[dacubz145]

I would like it if you reuploaded it prior to adding additional UU's, just incase I get to it. But currently I am working on improvements/rotes for the map, then comes buildings, then units, so it will be a bit until I get to the units

Periodic updates/questions would be appreciated though!

 

[c13Garrison]

Will do! Here's my first question though;

If I have a complete blank slate for assigning values that's wonderful if naval units are entirely separate from land/air. However, due to shore bombardment, naval values will intersect with land unit values. So, is there a core value you would like a key naval unit to have, so shore bombardment will factor in the way you foresee?

 

[dacubz145]

Highest strength value should be around 40 probably