Modern/Kingdom of Italy

[Mussolini]

Why not Benito Mussolini and Giuseppe Garibaldi as leaders for Italy, both are a part of italian history. Garibaldi was the "father" of the modern country, and Mussolini was one of the greatest leaders of it history.

Mussolini should not be considered a villian. His goal was to form a Empire. He was the first to defend Austria in 1934 when Hilter tried a coup d'etat, took a stronger anti-Nazi line than Britain after Hilter breach the Treaty of Versailles in 35'. He was tricked into believe that France and Britain would allow him to gain Abyssinia as agreed to in Stressa. When the embrago (From Britian and France) was created he had no choice to ally with Germany to gain natural resoures (he was Also promised djibuti, corsica, and nice with greater contol of tunisia from Hilter Before he delcared war on France, something hilter turned his back on). Mussolini should not be refered to as a "villian" but a man that fought for Italian pride. I'm sorry for getting so political but i believe sometimes what has to be said should be said. Of course he made mistakes and was backed into horrible decisions from a stronger country, but what leader in the history of the world has not done this?

 

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Why not Benito Mussolini and Giuseppe Garibaldi as leaders for Italy, both are a part of italian history. Garibaldi was the "father" of the modern country, and Mussolini was one of the greatest leaders of it history.

Mussolini should not be considered a villian. His goal was to form a Empire. He was the first to defend Austria in 1934 when Hilter tried a coup d'etat, took a stronger anti-Nazi line than Britain after Hilter breach the Treaty of Versailles in 35'. He was tricked into believe that France and Britain would allow him to gain Abyssinia as agreed to in Stressa. When the embrago (From Britian and France) was created he had no choice to ally with Germany to gain natural resoures (he was Also promised djibuti, corsica, and nice with greater contol of tunisia from Hilter Before he delcared war on France, something hilter turned his back on). Mussolini should not be refered to as a "villian" but a man that fought for Italian pride. I'm sorry for getting so political but i believe sometimes what has to be said should be said. Of course he made mistakes and was backed into horrible decisions from a stronger country, but what leader in the history of the world has not done this?

What about Matteotti omicide? The racial laws? The abolition of other parties? The remotion of the indipendence of magistrature and university?

I'm Italian, and I not think that Mussolini is a pride for Italy. BTW, I think that he was an important Italian leader and then it would be a good unpolitically (but historic) correct choice.

 

[Mussolini]

What about Matteotti omicide? The racial laws? The abolition of other parties? The remotion of the indipendence of magistrature and university?

I'm Italian, and I not think that Mussolini is a pride for Italy. BTW, I think that he was an important Italian leader and then it would be a good unpolitically (but historic) correct choice.

I care not to talk about his politics for this is not the forum to do so, but I am also Italian, and this man changed a pile of junk that was Italy into something all italians home and abroad were proud of, that alone he should be a leader in this game

 

[Rufus T. Firefly]

I care not to talk about his politics for this is not the forum to do so, but I am also Italian, and this man changed a pile of junk that was Italy into something all italians home and abroad were proud of, that alone he should be a leader in this game

Italian patriotism was created before, by Risorgimento's ideals (which include also democratic process) and the WW1, when soldiers from different regions became the same Italians.

Please don't confuse patriotism with jingoism.

 

[Sadistik]

Much better the Bersagliere as UU. And Garibaldi was not a political leader or a headstate, like the one on Civ.

Garibaldi was dictator of Sicily. He handed it over to King V. E.

 

[Sadistik]

Why not Benito Mussolini and Giuseppe Garibaldi as leaders for Italy, both are a part of italian history. Garibaldi was the "father" of the modern country, and Mussolini was one of the greatest leaders of it history.

Mussolini should not be considered a villian. His goal was to form a Empire. He was the first to defend Austria in 1934 when Hilter tried a coup d'etat, took a stronger anti-Nazi line than Britain after Hilter breach the Treaty of Versailles in 35'. He was tricked into believe that France and Britain would allow him to gain Abyssinia as agreed to in Stressa. When the embrago (From Britian and France) was created he had no choice to ally with Germany to gain natural resoures (he was Also promised djibuti, corsica, and nice with greater contol of tunisia from Hilter Before he delcared war on France, something hilter turned his back on). Mussolini should not be refered to as a "villian" but a man that fought for Italian pride. I'm sorry for getting so political but i believe sometimes what has to be said should be said. Of course he made mistakes and was backed into horrible decisions from a stronger country, but what leader in the history of the world has not done this?

As Mr. Hitler said, the winners write the history books. Hitler's disgusting behavior damned him and took the entire Axis down with him by association.

Ironically, Stalin, by association with the Western Democracies, comes out smelling like a rose, even though he tried to move the entire Jewish community to the extreme eastern portion of Siberia, which according to international law is considered the same as Genocide. Plus, he killed 20 million people.

I'd gladly prefer living under Corporatist Italy before FDRist America, or even visiting Stalinist Russia.


I agree with -- and disagree with -- a lot of what Mr. Mussolini had to say, but he was generally a weak figure intellectually who took his philosophy from Gentile.

 

[Sadistik]

The abolition of other parties?

Modern Democracies do that now. If Mussolini tried to start a party in Germany in 2005 he'd be branded an antisemite, thrown in jail, and his party banned.

See: Dozens of German parties, or more recently the Flemish Block in Belgium.

In the span of 50 years, Italy went from colonizing Africa to being colonized by Africa. You do the math

But I'm not going to really take sides, since this is a game forum and not a political one, and since I really don't see the point in arguing the merits of Mussolini in modern Italy. As far as politicians go, he's by far the most important. His actions brought the death of a millennia-old empire, created sovereignty for the papacy, brought the collapse of the monarchy, the end of colonies in Greece and Africa, a possible communist takeover, and even the potential for Sicily to be annexed by the USA.

He said beforehand that Italy wouldn't be ready until the mid 1940s. Hitler told him it was a sure thing. After the Blitzkrieg and Britain showing no backbone in Eastern Europe, it seemed like he was right.

 

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Garibaldi was dictator of Sicily. He handed it over to King V. E.

Only on 1859. I think that this is not a great idea of politics. Also because he was dictator in roman sense: a person that take the power for a short period when prompt action is necessary.

About the abolition of parties, I mean that Mussolini abolished all parties.

 

[NickSD]

Quit poking the Italians to add Il Duce, they can put in whatever leader they want. That's the beauty of civ.

I hate Mussolini, but if you want him so much, make a Mussolini mod yourself. That's the beauty of civ.

Nick

 

[Sadistik]

Quit poking the Italians to add Il Duce, they can put in whatever leader they want. That's the beauty of civ.

I hate Mussolini, but if you want him so much, make a Mussolini mod yourself. That's the beauty of civ.

Nick

I agree. I'm not Pro or Contra him, but to simply rule him out because of Hitler would be stupid. He was inept, and he didn't make the trains run on time. That's a better reason not to have him

 

[Celio Vibenna]

Mussolini is ok for Italy, he was the first Leader that applied socialism in Italy.

You have a very strange idea of "socialism".

For the UU....I think Folgore is better

Folgore is not more than a unit already in Civilization Units.

 

[Robo Magic Man]

You guys are definitely right about Caesar not being very accurate for Italy, but I just don't have the programs or expertise to edit leaderheads. If anyone has a good picture of Vittorio Emanuel that they can convert, package, and post here so I can put it in the mod, please do so. An animated leader would be great, but a photo would be fine.
Thanks for the suggestions!

 

[Prometeo]

Hi all guys. I'm Italian and I'd like to explain my opinion about modern italy leaders.

First of all i think that Garibaldi is unfit to be used as "leader". He was a leader on the battlefield, but not a politician. I think that Giuseppe Mazzini and Camillo Benso of Cavour would be better. Mazzini was the father of the spiritual rebirth of Italy and Cavour the smart politician that directed Garibaldi's movements.

What about Benito Mussolini?
He represent for 90% of Italians only a bad rember of the worse period of our history. He killed many people in order to gain the power, and kept this situation using brutal force of fascist police. He has been leader for a long time, it's true. But also many other people have been to! For example Giolitti (the one who governed Italy before Mussolini dictatorship) or Alcide de Gasperi (after WWII).

I suggest Mazzini and Cavour. Maybe Vittorio Emanuele II...
But don't take Mussolini (or Berlusconi ) please

ps= UU ??? Bersagliere (fast rifleman) or Alpino (good on hills)

 

[Robo Magic Man]

sorry, duplicate post

 

[Sadistik]

Giolitti is definately a good pick, although most people don't know him.

 

[GeoModder]

Better Caesar than Silvio Berlusconi...

I'm going to create Etruscan Civilization, if it can interest someone...

Hey, perhaps that Hypaphist unit in the scenario folder can find a use as UU here. (properly renamed of course)

 

[kingpenguin]

Here's three choices for a Victor Emmanuel leaderhead, all sized and converted. Do you know how to put them in? If not, it's in assets/XML/art/Civ4artdefines_leaderhead where you change the appropriate nif file into your chosen dds file. The files go in assets/art/leaderheads. Probably a way to just rename your file, too, but this is easy enough.

 

[Fireb]

I'm going to create Etruscan Civilization, if it can interest someone...

Yes. I'm interested

I'm currently creating a Roman Kings mod:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=145070

Featured civs will be Rome, The Etruscans, Latinium and Sabine.

New Civs or even Leadheads for any of those civs (including Romulus of course) would be very nice.

I'm currently using Hatty for the Etruscans (seems appropriate, apart from the war chariots), and Mansa Mulla for the Sabines (skirmisher UU seems appropriate for them).

Have you done any work on it Celio?

 

[Robo Magic Man]

Thanks for the leaderheads, penguin, I'll try them out.

 

[Robo Magic Man]

I suggest Mazzini and Cavour. Maybe Vittorio Emanuele II...
But don't take Mussolini (or Berlusconi ) please

ps= UU ??? Bersagliere (fast rifleman) or Alpino (good on hills)

Don't worry, I won't use Mussolini. I'm Italian as well, and while I agree with some of you that he played a very substantial role in Italian history, I think that there are better choices (like Vittorio), and leaders shouldn't be villains.