[Modmod]Sunset of Civilization

[Imperator Knoedel]

That's a lot of effects

Yeah but high upkeep and no foreign trade routes tho

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

I added some more specific ideas for actual effects:

Spoiler Updated Roster :

Tribalism/Authority/Traditionalism:
Starting Civic, no effects

Imperial Cult:

• Represents: Empires that treat their ruler as the king of kings, as a god-like being that rules everything. Other civilizations are considered barbarians that may or may not pay tribute to the one true emperor, but can certainly never be on the same level as the one great civilization.
  
• Unlocked by: Some Tech in the Ancient Era
  
• Possible Effects:
  • High Upkeep
    
  • No Foreign Trade Routes
  • +1 Happiness per Military Unit Stationed in a City
  • +50% Extra Experience Gain within Cultural Borders
  • +100% Domestic Great General Birth Rate
  • Great General Threshold is reset when the Palace is moved
  • +2 Food from Paddy Field
  • +25% Production in Capital
  • Double Production Speed for Monument
  • something useful for civs with many cities and few or no trade partners
• Civs that should run it: Ancient Egypt, Babylon, China, maybe Persia, Imperial Rome, Byzantium, possibly Japan
  
• Should synergize with: Despotism, Monarchy, maybe Elective, Redistribution, Deification, Isolationism
  
• Should NOT synergize with: Republic, State Party, Democracy, Individualism, Egalitarianism, Secularism, maybe Nationhood, Multilateralism

Aristocracy:

• Represents: Pre-modern civilizations with a ruling class of nobles. May be a feudal patchwork or a state with a central government, but if it's the latter the king or emperor is relatively weak as the real power lies with the nobility.
  
• Unlocked by: Some Tech in the late Ancient or early Classical Era
  
• Possible Effects:
  • Medium Upkeep
  • +1 Production from Farm
  • Double Production Speed for Library, Market, Forge, Theatre
  • Its main benefit compared to Imperial Cult should be the ability to have foreign trade routes, so it doesn't actually need to be that good on its own as it shouldn't really be competitive with later civics anyway.
• Civs that should run it: Republican Rome, Phoenicia, Greece, Medieval Europe, really all civs before the Renaissance era that aren't supposed to run Imperial Cult.
  
• Should synergize with: Monarchy, Republic
  
• Should NOT synergize with: Despotism, maybe State Party, Democracy, Egalitarianism, Secularism

Conservatism/Absolutism/Authoritarianism:

• Represents: Absolutism and authoritarian right wing governments that are not fascist.
  
• Unlocked by: Statecraft maybe? Definitely in the Renaissance era.
  
• Possible Effects:
  • Medium Upkeep
  • +50% Gold, Culture and Espionage in Capital
  • Can Draft 1 Unit per Turn
    
  • +2 Happiness from State Religion
  • -1 Happiness from Non State Religion
    
  • -1 Commerce from Town
• Civs that should run it: pre-revolutionary France, Imperial Russia, really most of Europe until the 19th century, some Latin American civs
  
• Should synergize with: Monarchy
  
• Should NOT synergize with: Egalitarianism, Secularism

Liberalism/Liberty:

• Represents: Parliamentary democracies which guarantee individual human rights and probably have a constitution.
  
• Unlocked by: Some Tech in the late Renaissance or early Industrial era.
  
• Possible Effects:
  • Medium Upkeep
  • +2 Commerce from Villages, Towns (stolen from Individualism which has its upkeep reduced to low in compensation)
  • +1 Gold per Specialist
  • +1 Happiness from Great People Buildings (Academy, Stock Exchange etc.)
  • +25% Trade Route Commerce
    
  • Something related to trade, cottages and/or great people
• Civs that should run it: USA, Western Europe starting in the late 18th century
  
• Should synergize with: Democracy, Individualism, Egalitarianism, Free Enterprise, Tolerance, Secularism, Multilateralism
  
• Should NOT synergize with: Despotism, Slavery, Manorialism, Caste System, Totalitarianism, Redistribution, Central Planning, Deification, Theocracy, Conquest, Tributaries

Fascism/Fraternity:

• Represents: Fascism, duh.
  
• Unlocked by: Some Tech in the early Global Era
  
• Possible Effects:
  • Low Upkeep
  • Free Military Unit Upkeep for X Units
    
  • +1 Experience for All Military Units
    
  • something related to military and conquest
• Civs that should run it: Germany, Italy and Japan during the first half of the 20th century when they are going for their respective conquest UHVs
  
• Should synergize with: Despotism, State Party, Totalitarianism, Conquest, Nationhood
  
• Should NOT synergize with: Republic, Democracy, Individualism, Egalitarianism, Tolerance, Multilateralism

Communism/Equality:

• Represents: Proletarian dictatorships that seek to abolish capitalism and establish a new global socialist order based on the principles of Marxism.
  
• Unlocked by: Some Tech in the late Industrial or early Global era
  
• Possible Effects:
  • Low Upkeep
  • +15% Production in All Cities
  • +1 Production from Workshop, Lumbermill
    
  • +1 Happiness from Factory, Industrial Park
    
  • Research and espionage boosts?
• Civs that should run it: literally everyone Russia and China in the 20th century
  
• Should synergize with: State Party, Totalitarianism, Egalitarianism, Central Planning, Secularism
  
• Should NOT synergize with: Monarchy, Republic, Elective, Slavery, Manorialism, Caste System, Individualism, Merchant Trade, Free Enterprise, Clergy, Monasticism, Theocracy

 

[Logoncal]

Christ almighty, that right there is Caveman 2 Cosmos/Realism Invictus level of civic!

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Christ almighty, that right there is Caveman 2 Cosmos/Realism Invictus level of civic!

It is? How so?

 

[Publicola]

C2C civics are notorious for having 10-20 effects apiece.

Dawn of Civilization civics are more likely to have 3-5 effects. (Seriously, just compare your list to any of the civics Leoreth is using for the current version).

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

C2C civics are notorious for having 10-20 effects apiece.

Dawn of Civilization civics are more likely to have 3-5 effects. (Seriously, just compare your list to any of the civics Leoreth is using for the current version).

Ah, I see.

For one, some civics like Colonialism and Republic are fairly overloaded in their own right, and two, I was just throwing out possible effects that seem fitting in the understanding that not all of them are necessarily actually going to make it into the game.

Aristocracy, Fascism and Communism don't seem to be that overloaded anyway.

For simplicity's sake I'm going to use the second post of this thread to pin an overview of the prospective new Legitimacy civics roster which I will update ever so often.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

DoC 1.16: downloaded.

knuckles: cracked

Better things to do with my life: none

yep.. its merging time



Edit: The next version I am going to release will have little to no changes of my own and will instead mostly consist of all the new features of DoC 1.16 merged into my own mod. Feel free to follow my progress along via Github, but I can make no promises about whether or not what I upload there will actually be playable at any given time.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Well, that went easier and smoother than I expected. I have actually been done with merging 1.16 for almost a week now and spent the last few days playtesting and even adding some new mechanics myself.

Indeed, I hereby boldly proclaim that at this moment in time the development version of my mod is objectively better than the development version of Dawn of Civilization. It's simple math really, Sunset has all the features DoC currently has in addition to everything I modded, and it seems stable enough. I invite everyone to check it out while it lasts.

In addition to all the good stuff from the initial Sunset release and the most cutting edge Dawn features combined, I also added all this recently:

• Culture remains universally useful as both trade route income and great people birth rate is boosted by it, in addition to culture being accumulated on a civ wide level to trigger Golden Ages ever so often.
• Golden Ages now truly deserve their name: When one starts, civilizations receive a stack of about a dozen units in their capital.
  
• The number of cities maintenance cost now scales quite a bit more with the era you are in. You can basically ignore it before the Medieval age, allowing players to recreate the grand empires of Rome, Cyrus the Great, and Alexander the Terrible without going bankrupt.
• Crossing a river now only slows units down by an additional movement point instead of stopping them entirely.
• Siege Weapons no longer have the Amphibious promotion. Instead they (or units that have a bombardment rate of more than zero to be precise) just ignore the combat penalty from crossing rivers without being able to ignore the penalty on movement speed.
• Distillery now provides one Wine resource.
• Completing a Palace in a city with an Administrative Center removes the Center and spawns a Great Statesman instead.

Also I fiddled with some civics a bit, tweaked some early game building and tech costs, yadda yadda.

I would be very pleased to receive feedback on my mod as it currently stands and will probably follow up with a proper release in a few weeks, as the main objective of this version (merging DoC 1.16) has already been accomplished.

The next version, provided Leoreth doesn't somehow pull 1.17 out of his hat within the next month, will be all about restructuring the tech tree as outlined in this post.

After that I'll make a few more radical changes to civics as already discussed, though I'm less certain about Fascism as a civic now, considering it has to be totalitarian by definition. Maybe I'll just name it (Racial/National/Collective) Supremacy or Harmony or Purity or something.

Also just today I had the greatest idea for a possible Isolationism effect pop into my head: +50 Commerce in Capital; -1 Commerce in Capital for each living civilization you have contact with.

 

[1SDANi]

+50 Commerce in Capital; -1 Commerce in Capital for each living civilization you have contact with.

That's big. And doesn't scale. Interesting way to make it less useful over time. Especially combined with the late game spawns/respawns and the connectivity that the congress and UN brings.

 

[Enyavar]

Your additions sound interesting... yet some are slightly OP.

I take issue with this one here:

Distillery now provides one Wine resource.

Distilleries in current DoC are only profitable when built in a city that has Wine or Sugar anyway. By distilling 1 Wine, you don't get 2 Wine, and the same goes for sugar, you don't get 1 Sugar + 1 Wine. Couldn't you get "Alcohol" as a new resource? (Or is that too RI ?)

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Your additions sound interesting... yet some are slightly OP.

I take issue with this one here: Distilleries in current DoC are only profitable when built in a city that has Wine or Sugar anyway. By distilling 1 Wine, you don't get 2 Wine, and the same goes for sugar, you don't get 1 Sugar + 1 Wine. Couldn't you get "Alcohol" as a new resource? (Or is that too RI ?)

I don't see the point in adding new resources, especially since the new bigger map will do that anyway. Distillery does give 1 Unhealth, doesn't that balance it out? Would it be more balanced if it gave 2 Unhealth?

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Well well well.

I just realized I can mod those leader names to suit my personal biases, but should I?

New commit: Estates now grant a free specialist per (Slave) Plantation in the BFC but produce less culture.

 

[Enyavar]

Hi, I just checked out your modmodmod.

I first downloaded and unpacked the "Sunset-master.zip" from the most current git. Then I downloaded+unpacked the "PrivateMaps.zip" from your first post and put them into that folder, overwriting the privatemaps that were already there.
Then put the entire thing into the Mod folders, hopefully not disturbing the DoC installation in any way. I firmly believe that you don't reference anything of a DoC installation anyway, or do you require a working DoC alongside your mod?
As far as I could see, that is all I require to play, right?

Loading and playing the mod works. Um, basically. Erm. Something's wrong with the civ slots?

Spoiler Playing Babylon 3000 BC: :

Spoiler Playing Harappa (starting in turn 33, 2200 BCE) :

Starting with the 600 AD map, the User Interface is hidden and the game crashes upon settling the first city. Tested with Vikings (Correct position, founding Oslo) and Arabia (starting on Turkestan starting position - ??)

Starting with the 1700 AD map, the game started with a black screen and an autosave that lasted 15 minutes before I shut down the unresponsive game via the "taskkill" command. (Tested with the Dutch civ)

Do you have an explanation or fix at hand, dear Knoedel Imperator Satani?

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Do you have an explanation or fix at hand, dear Knoedel Imperator Satani?

Yes: I haven't updated the PrivateMaps in this thread because the official release hasn't happened yet, so the .zip you downloaded is still based on the older release version which didn't yet have the Turks as a civ, which is the reason the civ slots all seem messed up.

Here, I'll attach an up to date version of the maps to this post for your convenience.

That should hopefully fix your issues.

 

[PinkPallin]

Playing the latest Git, CTD at the end of the turn.

 

[black213]

I'm unable to finish downloading from Github. Something about downloading big files from Github, claims 'network error' in Chrome, never works out for me. Any chance of a different mirror?
I assume the light version in the OP is still for an older version, as it broke my 1.16 installation when merged

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

I'm unable to finish downloading from Github. Something about downloading big files from Github, claims 'network error' in Chrome, never works out for me. Any chance of a different mirror?
I assume the light version in the OP is still for an older version, as it broke my 1.16 installation when merged

I'm sorry, but the whole point of using Github is so people can playtest along right as I'm developing between official releases, so if you can't get it to work from there I'm afraid you will have to wait until I publish the next official release. Ironically enough I am pretty much done with all changes I planned for the next version but I still want to wait a bit to playtest and fix any bugs I or other people notice before making it official.

Yes, the light version in the OP is for the older initial release based on 1.15.

 

[Enyavar]

I like breaking games - and then run them into the ground, obviously. Similar to what happens in Leoreth's DoC 1.16 edition when I play on Emperor difficulty, the other empires in SoC 1.16 are ridiculously strong, ridiculously early. My screenshot is showing Sasanid Persia. Instead of conquering like Alexander, I went for a Greece-->England switcheroo. So, I had to deal with Rome (no problem) and Persia (very much a problem, once they threatened to point their Bombards, Arquebusiers and Pistoliers in my direction). So I granted them a few cities to appease them, and the truce holds. Although they started conquering lands in Europe, near the Alps.

Spoiler Persia, observed as Greece :

Despite not having finished my game yet, I want to give some feedback about playing SoC v1.16.
First of all, the general reversal of civil and military move points is a pretty interesting feature, and was the first I grudgingly noticed. I'm going to lobby for it in the DoC release once we get to the bigger map. Cavalry really speeds up with 4 moves, covering 12 road tiles, and that's without inhancements. Likewise the Infantry, 2 moves. What you did to Workers and Settlers really sucks, but that nerf was necessary I think. And with slavery, I found that keeping Workers alive at all costs is a stupid move. Instead I found them useful as chaff to delay Barbarians. In a DoC game, I'd usually have maybe 5-15 workers depending on the empire. In my first SoC trial I have already downsized my worker staff by twice the amount. They are really cheap. All in all, the capturing-slaves-under-slavery-civic is something I will also lobby for, albeit only in a package with removing their second movement point.
I am still to build my first railway, naturally, but the Pedia entry still says they fix movement speed towards 10? Is that true?

The thing with the cultural golden ages is a bit annoying since I haven't found what triggers them. It always coincided with the birth of a great person. First GAge for the first GP, I think, second for the fourth, and the third GAge for the eleventh Great Person, unless GGens count. But getting free settlers and soldiers with it as well? I had just finished building all my settlers!!
I also noticed that Great Persons are now advancing more Great Persons of their own kind. I was already a big friend of settling GPs instead of bulbing with them, but now I found a way to turn a single city into a self-replicating Great-Person-Machine. That is a cool feature in itself, but I doubt that it is properly balanced. In summary, that's not something I'm going to lobby for in DoC.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Playing the latest Git, CTD at the end of the turn.

Indeed. Ending the turn with a Debug DLL gives me the following "Assert Failed" messages:

File:  .\.\CvTeam.cpp
Line:  3882
Expression:  eIndex >= 0
Message:  eIndex is expected to be non-negative (invalid Index)

(twice)

File:  .\.\CvPlot.cpp
Line:  11508
Expression:  ePlayer >= 0
Message:  eTeam is expected to be non-negative (invalid Index)

(I got this one four times before pressing Ignore Always instead of Ignore Once)

File:  .\.\CvUnit.cpp
Line:  779
Expression:  pPlot != NULL
Message:  Plot is not assigned a valid value

After this last one the game finally crashed to desktop.

The respective functions for each of these are:

bool CvTeam::isHasMet(TeamTypes eIndex) const

bool CvPlot::isCore(PlayerTypes ePlayer) const

void CvUnit::kill(bool bDelay, PlayerTypes ePlayer)

Based on this I suspect that this crash probably has something to do with a civ dying or respawning. Do any of the more experienced modders have an explanation for this?

I like breaking games - and then run them into the ground, obviously. Similar to what happens in Leoreth's DoC 1.16 edition when I play on Emperor difficulty, the other empires in SoC 1.16 are ridiculously strong, ridiculously early.

In my defense, I'm usually only playing whatever the default difficulty is.

I am still to build my first railway, naturally, but the Pedia entry still says they fix movement speed towards 10? Is that true?

I don't know, let's find out together!

The thing with the cultural golden ages is a bit annoying since I haven't found what triggers them. It always coincided with the birth of a great person. First GAge for the first GP, I think, second for the fourth, and the third GAge for the eleventh Great Person, unless GGens count. But getting free settlers and soldiers with it as well? I had just finished building all my settlers!!
I also noticed that Great Persons are now advancing more Great Persons of their own kind. I was already a big friend of settling GPs instead of bulbing with them, but now I found a way to turn a single city into a self-replicating Great-Person-Machine. That is a cool feature in itself, but I doubt that it is properly balanced. In summary, that's not something I'm going to lobby for in DoC.

Have you ever looked up the culture tooltip of any city of yours? That's where you can find your Golden Age Progress, which I assure you has nothing to do with Great People birth.

I was unsure about the settlers myself but now that they can be used to grant buildings to older cities I figure you can use them even when you're done expanding.

 

[PinkPallin]

Based on this I suspect that this crash probably has something to do with a civ dying or respawning. Do any of the more experienced modders have an explanation for this?

I think you'd better ask Leoreth directly, I don't think he can read all the threads.