[Modmod]Sunset of Civilization

[TheMughalEmperor]

Oh, I thought you were talking in terms of modifiers.

I meant gameplay advantages and disadvantages in general.

 

[TheMughalEmperor]

Also, how come classical civs surviving into later ages are so overpowered as well? (Not complaining, just asking) Does say, Babylonia or Harappa count as "classical" too or only Greece and Rome?

I'd also like to ask - how to trigger the American Conqueror event? I sent explorers to America as China, no Aztecs or Maya, but there are Inca, how to get the Conqueror event with the armies? I only get the standard diplomatic peaceful greeting with the Inca.

EDIT - The year is 1180 AD. Maybe that's why?

 

[black213]

Should I play Sunset or the latest commit of DoC? Returning after a bit of a hiatus with DoC

 

[Enyavar]

Also, how come classical civs surviving into later ages are so overpowered as well? (Not complaining, just asking) Does say, Babylonia or Harappa count as "classical" too or only Greece and Rome?

I'd also like to ask - how to trigger the American Conqueror event? I sent explorers to America as China, no Aztecs or Maya, but there are Inca, how to get the Conqueror event with the armies? I only get the standard diplomatic peaceful greeting with the Inca.

EDIT - The year is 1180 AD. Maybe that's why?

First, I can only speak about DoC 1.15, but I think the similarities are close enough.

Don't know about Rome and greece, maybe your difficulty level is low? In higher difficulty levels they are brutally overrun by barbarians; so if they werent in this case, they got their sweet time to develop?

The conqueror event only triggers after the grace period, as far as I know. There is some python code I have checked on for both DoC and the good old RFC, because I use to have the same issue with early fleets: no conquistador event (at all) if first contact is made before 1250 (?). So if you hold your ships away from first contact for a while, you can make a killing later.

 

[Leoreth]

Should I play Sunset or the latest commit of DoC? Returning after a bit of a hiatus with DoC

I think you can check the list of changes in the first post to see if you like them or not (some of them ruin deliberate design decisions in DoC and have negative impacts on the game overall imo). Besides potentially not being up to date with very recent changes I made (e.g. Ethiopia) I don't think there is much of a difference otherwise.

 

[black213]

I like the changes in Sunset while I also like your recent updates! I guess I'll play around with both of them.

 

[TheMughalEmperor]

Don't know about Rome and greece, maybe your difficulty level is low? In higher difficulty levels they are brutally overrun by barbarians; so if they werent in this case, they got their sweet time to develop?

I reacted to Orbii's post. I actually haven't played as Greece or Rome yet.

Euros have advantages in basically everything (the best European civs at least). Sometimes history just be like that.

What about Iran? I looked at the modifiers and they're like those of Euros.

If you encounter any problems, glitches or bugs you are welcome to inform me of them and/or ask me for help, and I'll try my best to fix them.

Iran's capital displays as razed on spawn when playing it, yet is in fact a functional city. Graphics change to a normal city after growth. Cannot use Aztec Slaves to build Slave Plantations. Thanks in advance for answering.

 

[Leoreth]

If you already looked at the modifiers, what are you asking about?

 

[TheMughalEmperor]

If you already looked at the modifiers, what are you asking about?

About why is Iran in particular on par with Euro civs (not that I'm complaining ) while most of Asia has worse modifiers.

 

[Oblivionyx]

About why is Iran in particular on par with Euro civs (not that I'm complaining ) while most of Asia has worse modifiers.

At first glance I'd say it's because the rest of Asia is more commerce-rich than Persia, especially Chinese lands. Grand Canal + lots of riverside cottages = profit.

 

[Leoreth]

Generally civs that start later have better modifiers to account for the fact that earlier civilisations have more time to build up their infrastructure.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Iran's capital displays as razed on spawn when playing it, yet is in fact a functional city. Graphics change to a normal city after growth. Cannot use Aztec Slaves to build Slave Plantations. Thanks in advance for answering.

Cities being displayed as ruins is a bug that goes all the way back to Vanilla RFC and I wouldn't know how to fix it.

Curious about the Aztec Slaves.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

So. It's been half a year. My schedule may not have stood the test of time, but my general plan is still in effect: My next proper release (realistically after merging in DoC 1.16 once that is out) will be focused on a grand restructuring of the tech tree. I have attached a spreadsheet with a preliminary new tech tree below the old one for reference.

A short explanation of my color coding is probably in order:

• Light Blue: This spot is and will remain empty.
• Light Red: This spot will be empty, but currently holds a tech that will be moved elsewhere.
• Orange: This spot will contain a different tech than it currently does.
  
• White: The technology in this spot will remain the same.

I have decided to expand the tree to four columns per era instead of three to have more wriggle room. I don't feel obliged to maintain the weird blocky aesthetic of the current tree, so expect a more open design like in Vanilla. One design rule that I will follow is that under no circumstances is a tech to require another tech from the same column, which is currently the case for Aerodynamics (requires Robotics), Spaceflight (requires Computers) and a few others.

I welcome this community's feedback.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

On a completely unrelated note, I'm having a blast with this alternate history development I have going on in my current game. I thought I'd try a game roleplaying a communist Germany, and would you look at that, during the four year long revolution establishing the dictatorship of the Proletariat I wound up in an ideologically upside down World War II against a still Tsarist Russia.

Edit: Also I'm listening to this while playing:

 

[JHLee]

But why did you leave France alive?

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

But why did you leave France alive?

The opportunity to conquer them just never came up. First I was busy with Austria, then I got dragged into a war against the Ottomans because Poland was their vassal, and then after that I somehow ended up at war with England and America due to defensive pact shenanigans. I don't think I have been at war with France even once in this game.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

I am considering adding another civic column called something like Doctrine or Ideology or Political Philosophy, which describes which world view a given civilization has like so:

-Tribalism (Starting Civic)
-Imperial Cult (Imperial Rome, China etc.)
-Clientele System? Feudalism? Clan System (Republican Rome, Medieval Rome etc.)
-Conservatism (Prussia, Russia and Austria during the 19th century)
-Liberalism (France, USA etc.)
-Fascism (Nazi Germany, Italy, Japan etc.)
-Socialism (USSR, PRC etc.)

I put some more thought into this and have decided that I am going to just replace the Legitimacy category instead of adding a whole new one.

Here's the plan for now:

Tribalism/Authority/Traditionalism:
Starting Civic, no effects

Imperial Cult:

• Represents: Empires that treat their ruler as the king of kings, as a god-like being that rules everything. Other civilizations are considered barbarians that may or may not pay tribute to the one true emperor, but can certainly never be on the same level as the one great civilization.
  
• Unlocked by: Some Tech in the Ancient Era
  
• Possible Effects:
  • High Upkeep
    
  • No Foreign Trade Routes
  • +1 Happiness per Military Unit Stationed in a City
  • +50% Extra Experience Gain within Cultural Borders
  • +100% Domestic Great General Birth Rate
  • Great General Threshold is reset when the Palace is moved
  • +2 Food from Paddy Field
  • +25% Production in Capital
  • Double Production Speed for Monument
  • something useful for civs with many cities and few or no trade partners
• Civs that should run it: Ancient Egypt, Babylon, China, maybe Persia, Imperial Rome, Byzantium, possibly Japan
  
• Should synergize with: Despotism, Monarchy, maybe Elective, Redistribution, Deification, Isolationism
  
• Should NOT synergize with: Republic, State Party, Democracy, Individualism, Egalitarianism, Secularism, maybe Nationhood, Multilateralism

Aristocracy:

• Represents: Pre-modern civilizations with a ruling class of nobles. May be a feudal patchwork or a state with a central government, but if it's the latter the king or emperor is relatively weak as the real power lies with the nobility.
  
• Unlocked by: Some Tech in the late Ancient or early Classical Era
  
• Possible Effects:
  • Medium Upkeep
  • +1 Production from Farm
  • Double Production Speed for Library, Market, Forge, Theatre
  • Its main benefit compared to Imperial Cult should be the ability to have foreign trade routes, so it doesn't actually need to be that good on its own as it shouldn't really be competitive with later civics anyway.
• Civs that should run it: Republican Rome, Phoenicia, Greece, Medieval Europe, really all civs before the Renaissance era that aren't supposed to run Imperial Cult.
  
• Should synergize with: Monarchy, Republic
  
• Should NOT synergize with: Despotism, maybe State Party, Democracy, Egalitarianism, Secularism

Conservatism/Absolutism/Authoritarianism:

• Represents: Absolutism and authoritarian right wing governments that are not fascist.
  
• Unlocked by: Statecraft maybe? Definitely in the Renaissance era.
  
• Possible Effects:
  • Medium Upkeep
  • +50% Gold, Culture and Espionage in Capital
  • Can Draft 1 Unit per Turn
    
  • +2 Happiness from State Religion
  • -1 Happiness from Non State Religion
    
  • -1 Commerce from Town
• Civs that should run it: pre-revolutionary France, Imperial Russia, really most of Europe until the 19th century, some Latin American civs
  
• Should synergize with: Monarchy
  
• Should NOT synergize with: Egalitarianism, Secularism

Liberalism/Liberty:

• Represents: Parliamentary democracies which guarantee individual human rights and probably have a constitution.
  
• Unlocked by: Some Tech in the late Renaissance or early Industrial era.
  
• Possible Effects:
  • Medium Upkeep
  • +2 Commerce from Villages, Towns (stolen from Individualism which has its upkeep reduced to low in compensation)
  • +1 Gold per Specialist
  • +1 Happiness from Great People Buildings (Academy, Stock Exchange etc.)
  • +25% Trade Route Commerce
    
  • Something related to trade, cottages and/or great people
• Civs that should run it: USA, Western Europe starting in the late 18th century
  
• Should synergize with: Democracy, Individualism, Egalitarianism, Free Enterprise, Tolerance, Secularism, Multilateralism
  
• Should NOT synergize with: Despotism, Slavery, Manorialism, Caste System, Totalitarianism, Redistribution, Central Planning, Deification, Theocracy, Conquest, Tributaries

Fascism/Fraternity:

• Represents: Fascism, duh.
  
• Unlocked by: Some Tech in the early Global Era
  
• Possible Effects:
  • Low Upkeep
  • Free Military Unit Upkeep for X Units
    
  • +1 Experience for All Military Units
    
  • something related to military and conquest
• Civs that should run it: Germany, Italy and Japan during the first half of the 20th century when they are going for their respective conquest UHVs
  
• Should synergize with: Despotism, State Party, Totalitarianism, Conquest, Nationhood
  
• Should NOT synergize with: Republic, Democracy, Individualism, Egalitarianism, Tolerance, Multilateralism

Communism/Equality:

• Represents: Proletarian dictatorships that seek to abolish capitalism and establish a new global socialist order based on the principles of Marxism.
  
• Unlocked by: Some Tech in the late Industrial or early Global era
  
• Possible Effects:
  • Low Upkeep
  • +15% Production in All Cities
  • +1 Production from Workshop, Lumbermill
    
  • +1 Happiness from Factory, Industrial Park
    
  • Research and espionage boosts?
• Civs that should run it: literally everyone Russia and China in the 20th century
  
• Should synergize with: State Party, Totalitarianism, Egalitarianism, Central Planning, Secularism
  
• Should NOT synergize with: Monarchy, Republic, Elective, Slavery, Manorialism, Caste System, Individualism, Merchant Trade, Free Enterprise, Clergy, Monasticism, Theocracy

Also I might rename Tributaries to Vassalage.

 

[Logoncal]

I put some more thought into this and have decided that I am going to just replace the Legitimacy category instead of adding a whole new one.

Communism/Equality:

• Represents: Proletarian dictatorships that seek to abolish capitalism and establish a new global socialist order based on the principles of Marxism.
  
• Unlocked by: Some Tech in the late Industrial or early Global era
  
• Possible Effects: Happiness from Factories? Research and espionage boosts?
  
• Civs that should run it: Locked in as soon someone researches the required tech
  
• Should synergize with: State Party, Totalitarianism, Egalitarianism, Central Planning, Secularism
  
• Should NOT synergize with: Monarchy, Republic, Elective, Slavery, Manorialism, Caste System, Individualism, Merchant Trade, Free Enterprise, Clergy, Monasticism, Theocracy

There, fixed it

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

More thoughts:

Monarchy gets an entirely new effect: +1 Commerce in Capital per city.

Republic gets +2 Happiness in 5 Largest Cities and Imperial Cult gets +1 Happiness per garrisoned unit.

Edit:

My thoughts for Imperial Cult for now are as follows:

• High Upkeep
  
• No Foreign Trade Routes
• +1 Happiness per Military Unit Stationed in a City
• +50% Extra Experience Gain within Cultural Borders
• +100% Domestic Great General Birth Rate
• Great General Threshold is reset when the Palace is moved
• +2 Food from Paddy Field
• +25% Production in Capital
• Double Production Speed for Monument

 

[1SDANi]

More thoughts:

Monarchy gets an entirely new effect: +1 Commerce in Capital per city.

Republic gets +2 Happiness in 5 Largest Cities and Imperial Cult gets +1 Happiness per garrisoned unit.

Edit:

My thoughts for Imperial Cult for now are as follows:

• High Upkeep
  
• No Foreign Trade Routes
• +1 Happiness per Military Unit Stationed in a City
• +50% Extra Experience Gain within Cultural Borders
• +100% Domestic Great General Birth Rate
• Great General Threshold is reset when the Palace is moved
• +2 Food from Paddy Field
• +25% Production in Capital
• Double Production Speed for Monument

That's a lot of effects