[Modmodmod] RFC:Europe Extra Civs

[Morholt]

So the Tunisians are apparently not that hard. First and second UHV's are probably hardest. The pirate gold was no problem, I had 16000 pirate gold by 1650 (100 years early). When I was getting the most gold from pirates I was getting ~600gpt, blockading every single port in the Mediterranean as well as Morocco and Portugal, with a fleet of 125 Corsairs.

First UHV depends a lot on how lucky you get with Morocco and Arabia, but it's always possible to just sardine pack cities. Second has two tricks to it - you need to get Lumber for galleons, which you can get by conquering Corfu or Corsica, or vassalizing Morocco (I conquered Corsica, the Moroccans had a larger land army than me for the entire game). Secondly, you need to get open borders with the Moroccans (or maybe Cordobans or Spanish), or be at war with them, for your Irish invasion fleet to get out. I declared war on them.

The Corsairs are fairly interesting - they are sort of underpowered, so you need to keep them in large stacks so that about half of them are blockading and half are healing at any given moment. They were really starting to become obsolete in the 17th century though, with more and more nations able to build experienced Caracks and Galleons.

 

[Morholt]

The song attached sounds very Scottish to me

It's pretty atmospheric although I would prefer a "classic" tune.

 

[Opera]

So far, I've played with both Novgorod and Tunisia (in the same game).

Novgorod was fun, trying to get all those furs, although I didn't understand how they were counted. Maybe I missed something but I felt it wasn't dependent on having them improved with a camp.
It's kind of annoying that their UP is free Bureaucracy civic and then, you need to expand well beyond the instability malus of this civic to meet their goals.

In the end I was surprised by the Prussians so I switched to Tunisia.
I had a pretty good time conquering North Africa from Algiers to Domyat (which had the Hanseatic League HQ, making it a juicy target in my eyes). I don't think I'll succeed the corsairs thing... It really take a lot of focus on blockading!

Gonna try the other civs soon. I really like the job you've done, it's awesome to have so many new civs to play with. Especially since you've filled the holes of N Africa and Russia IMO.

 

[dale_bu]

Try having a listen to Gude Wallace and Highland Cathedral for ideas for Scottish music. Both are very atmospheric (in different ways) and I believe would set a great mood for Scotland.

Scots Whae Hae is another good one although probably not suited as it is predominantly lyrical.

 

[Morholt]

So far, I've played with both Novgorod and Tunisia (in the same game).

Novgorod was fun, trying to get all those furs, although I didn't understand how they were counted. Maybe I missed something but I felt it wasn't dependent on having them improved with a camp.
It's kind of annoying that their UP is free Bureaucracy civic and then, you need to expand well beyond the instability malus of this civic to meet their goals.

In the end I was surprised by the Prussians so I switched to Tunisia.
I had a pretty good time conquering North Africa from Algiers to Domyat (which had the Hanseatic League HQ, making it a juicy target in my eyes). I don't think I'll succeed the corsairs thing... It really take a lot of focus on blockading!

Gonna try the other civs soon. I really like the job you've done, it's awesome to have so many new civs to play with. Especially since you've filled the holes of N Africa and Russia IMO.

I just played a Novgorod game myself, and yeah, apparently the function I used to count furs only needs them to be in your borders, that UHV was very easy. I'll probably change it. The instability of Bureaucracy isn't actually that bad - only -1 stability per city. Meanwhile you basically only have to settle Solid areas where you get bonus stability for settling so it evens out.

The Prussians are easy if you prepare for them, I build 2 Arbalests and castles in each of the cities that would border them and that was enough. Another method is to build Ivangorod east of the river which is still in Estonia but not in the Prussian's flip zone.

When I played Tunisia i would let every "weak" city build Guild Hall->Harbor->Drydock, and then alt-click Corsairs so they build them forever. I would then gather stacks of ~5 Corsairs, most with Combat promotions but some with Medic (drydock + theocracy gives 2 promotions at start), and send them to spots where they could blockade 2-3 spots at once. I had 10000 plunder around 1610, so it's not that hard. The trickiest bit is getting the naval superiority to begin with, especially the Venetians were sinking my ships left and right until I blocked the strait of Otranto with a doomstack.

 

[ezzlar]

I am gonna try this modmodmod this weekend. If it turns out good I hope the new civs show up in the normal RFCE.

 

[Bonci]

I'm playing as the scots but the second UHV seems impossible to me! I am friendly with France and I'm constantly gifting them things and commercing with them (we even had 2 common wars because I accepted their invite to declare war on england and vikings) but now I have only 100 years to gain 800 points! D: and i gain like 10 every 3 turns ç_ç
Uh and the first time I started a game as them i had no settlers (in the plot of Edimburgh there was a panther) and only two swordsmen and crossbowmen.

Except for that I'm enjoing my game very much! ^_^

 

[Morholt]

The second scottish UHV is definitely possible, you just have to start early. Basically gift them something first turn and sign open borders directly, and trade as many resources as you can. The actual formula is a bit complex, I'll probably add a Civilopedia page about it at some point. Currently it is:

Every turn:
-2 for Furious, -1 for Annoyed, 0 for Cautious, +1 for Pleased, +2 for Friendly.
+1 for open borders
+2 for defensive pact
+1 for every 3 resources you import or export (this is basically the biggest factor, since it can get fairly high)
+2 for every common war
-3 for having a different religion.

If you are at war with France the attitude drops by -10 every turn regardless of other factors.

The panther is not supposed to be there, I'll look into it.

 

[3Miro]

I...(in the plot of Edimburgh there was a panther) ...

It wasn't a panther. This is William Wallace's pet kitten. Naturally it was a badass kitten.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0prUMtBjko

 

[cheesemijit]

I Just played a game as Scotland and got 1000 attitude points by about 1480, although i probably went overboard with it as i thought it would be almost impossible, and gave them pretty much all my resources and fought every war they were in (luckily they were very war-mongering this game ). Alot of fun, and I'm really liking their Dynamic Names as you conquer more of England/France.

 

[Morholt]

Did you manage to conquer Bretagne? How difficult was it? How much trouble were the English? And did you get to use the UP?

 

[cheesemijit]

At the moment the year is 1560 and i hold Bretagne and am at war with France, but have a giant stack in Bretagne so i have no fear of losing it, sadly my stability is -2 and i one of my Ireland cities declared independence so I'm just waiting for more stability so i can take it back.

The Start of the game was pretty much a rush to settle but i probably could've slowed down a bit to save my stability (I have been at about 0 all game even with no civic changes and 2 golden ages), may have been because i slightly abused the UP after England spawned, taking York and pulling out letting England take it, then repeating for a lot of units XD, this stopped working after 3 attempts though. I wanted to keep England in the game as France was at constant war with them so i just held the border for as long as possible, but at about 1470 France declared peace and i couldn't convince them to change their mind as they had 2 other wars going (which i was also a part of but never sent any troops in) so i sent my armies in against England's more advanced troops but conquered down to Southampton, Capitalized them and gave them Southampton Back. France was easy to take Bretange by rushing them from sea but i don't even want to try taking them on anywhere else.

I have found it hard to keep up with others technology, although i remembered that i had been pooling espionage into France all game recently and sent a great spy and a few spies to Paris and stole 3 techs, bringing me back into their level, but still lagging behind.

One issue has been that i can't hire mercenaries and even though being voted in for 3 Crusades I only got men next to Jerusalem the first time (I took it but then lost it about 6 turns later, the Arabs have been doing exceptionally well in this game).

Scotland was a very good idea to add and i really like their UHV's, you really need to play them differently to any other nation in the world.

 

[Morholt]

Yeah, Scotland's tech rate is pretty terrible, that's intentional so that when both them and England are AI England will eventually conquer Scotland. Good to hear you found a way around it though.

It's almost never possible to hire mercenaries except for right after an AI has collapsed. This is because there is a cap on how many mercenaries can exist in the game and the AI likes to hoard them. 3Miro is working on a new mercenary system which I assume will fix this.

Good to hear you liked it! How are you vs the other civs score wise?

PS: bonus mission if you get bored hitting end turn for 200 years: Also conquer Galicia (in Spain) by 1750. This was originally part of the 3rd UHV (Galicia is also a traditionally celtic land) but I took it out because I thought that it would be way too hard.

 

[cheesemijit]

Yeah, Scotland's tech rate is pretty terrible, that's intentional so that when both them and England are AI England will eventually conquer Scotland. Good to hear you found a way around it though.

It's almost never possible to hire mercenaries except for right after an AI has collapsed. This is because there is a cap on how many mercenaries can exist in the game and the AI likes to hoard them. 3Miro is working on a new mercenary system which I assume will fix this.

Good to hear you liked it! How are you vs the other civs score wise?

PS: bonus mission if you get bored hitting end turn for 200 years: Also conquer Galicia (in Spain) by 1750. This was originally part of the 3rd UHV (Galicia is also a traditionally celtic land) but I took it out because I thought that it would be way too hard.

Might give that a go, however as you can see here Spain is the last person i should be aiming for, and Galicia has 2 cities making it even harder .

Spoiler :

I have been in the bottom 5 in score for 90% of the game but am now slowly rising, after playing on for a bit after my previous post my stability is also rising nicer now as my economy grows, ill take back Donegal and then prepare for Galacia . Would be cool if England had a better Vassal name for being under Scotland but I'm not sure what it could be.

 

[Morholt]

Duchy of Lloegyr?
Heptarchy of Albion?
Kinrick o Ingland?

 

[AbsintheRed]

Duchy of Albion?

 

[Opera]

Maybe there should be more barbarian pressure on North Africa? I hardly ever saw one barb as Tunisia and by the look of it, Morocco isn't worried either. A bit of pressure on them would make it more interesting.

 

[dragodon64]

Duchy of Lloegyr?
Heptarchy of Albion?
Kinrick o Ingland?

Kinrick o Ingland is the official Scots name for Kingdom of England, which is definitely nice, but isn't the custom to name civ names in English (Kingdom of France instead of Royaume de France) so maybe it should be Duchy (or even Lordship) of Sasainn (which I think is Gaelic, not Scots).

 

[Morholt]

Maybe there should be more barbarian pressure on North Africa? I hardly ever saw one barb as Tunisia and by the look of it, Morocco isn't worried either. A bit of pressure on them would make it more interesting.

I agree, will increase this for next version. But did you try playing Morocco? Their first UHV is quite hard as it is..

Kinrick o Ingland is the official Scots name for Kingdom of England, which is definitely nice, but isn't the custom to name civ names in English (Kingdom of France instead of Royaume de France) so maybe it should be Duchy (or even Lordship) of Sasainn (which I think is Gaelic, not Scots).

The custom seems to be to have the title in English: "Kingdom", "Duchy" but the Ottomans have the name of the country in the Turkish: "Ispanya", "Venedik". I guess Sasainn is better than Lloegyr which is specifically Welsh. But I also like Albion, the word is related to "Alba" which is another name for Scotland. Scots would be most accurate since it was definitely much more important than Gaelic after the Norman conquest but "Duchy of Ingland" doesn't sound quite so "different". Then again maybe it doesn't have to.

 

[Science Rules]

Why not name it "Jacobite England" or "Stuart England"? This actually reflects the time when the English Throne was occupied by Scotsmen.