[MODULE] Scions Healthcare

[Valkrionn]

Something representing how resources are corrupted by HL could be nice.

 

[odalrick]

For me, Ghost crew seems a clone of Skeleton crew (being the main difference is that one is ethereal and the other is bones, in some words).
However, at practice, it seems to be a promo that add extra bonuses to those of skeleton. My idea?: Ghost do not have weight, (I suppose), but there are already a cargo promo (skeleton crew).
Perhaps, this promo could act as a "Fear". Also remove the cargo bonus and the attack penalty.
So, to sum up: They could have, extra +1 attack, -1 defense, +30% withdrawal, and "Fear".
The hidden promo that is granted randomly is tricky. Perhaps, the ship could only be viewed to units with certain amount of perception?

As others have said, Skeleton Crew does not mean a crew of skeletons.

The idea is that a Ghost Ship is hard to kill. You might sink it easily but it may come back. Lower strength, withdrawal and occasional Hidden fits perfectly. The extra cargo is because the ship is literally empty.

Yes, perhaps, a bonus from haunted lands. It makes sense, being a Ghosthouse. +1 maybe?

I don't think there is a tag for extra from Feature. Even if there was, I think it would be stronger than I'd like.

I thought that text meaned that it raised the %awakened a bit. (I dunno how that mechanic work, however)

It's not easy to alter that mechanic through modules. Putting help texts on the buildings that affect it is not a bad idea.

Water sculpture resembles a Levee, when you point out that it gives for rivers. Perhaps, move that UB to engineering and leave the Sewer as a normal building?

That leaves me without a unique building for the Sewers, so I must make up another.

I've never been particularly happy with Water Sculpture, it's just better than having a useless health building. It could certainly do with a good renaming, how does "Living Tide" sound?

So, leaving that line of thinking alone... it just seems like a building that doesn't break even for 75 turns is a little weak.

Ok, I'm convinced, the Poisoned Well needs a boost. I'll raise the yield to 2.

I would not do anything along those lines. It is FAR too similar to the Divided Soul mechanic of the Sidar.

You think so? Apart from being associated with Recon and having a similar graphic (was thinking a scaled down Mistform) I don't see any similarity.

Something to compensate how awful health-and-food resources are for the Scions? Have those resources supply commerce bonuses to the city would work, perhaps.

Something representing how resources are corrupted by HL could be nice.

Steal that mechanic from Guns, Wyrms and Steel and let Pastures provide a free specialist? Even Ghosts need work. (How else are they going to find the time to post on Civfanatics?)

When buildings can require nearby resources it will be easy to make refineries, processing the stuff into useful commodities.

 

[Valkrionn]

Associated with recon, both summon spirits (one calls a ghost, other an aspect of his own soul). Sounds way too similar to me, particularly given the sheer number of mechanics the Scions possess as opposed to the scarcity of Sidar mechanics.

 

[Calavente]

Valk :
actually, if I understand his concept, it would be more like a "magical eye" (metamagic I) given freely to any scout. Or maybe even only a hawk... that is in the form of a spirit.
On the other hand if the "soul" is a permanent summon, it would be truly like a divided soul, without the recall function.

 

[odalrick]

The Ghost Familiar would be a separate unit, given freely to Recon build in cities with Ghost houses. It would have 3 and bFlying and technically be a permanent summon. However, not an actual summon spell, lose it and its gone. It would be leashed to the Recon unit and have no special perceptive powers. Some kind of invisibility and maybe one or two strength. Possibly Loki-type protection from attack, but then several spells would kill it.

My idea is that a boy that grows up in a city with a Ghost House can befriend one of the ghosts. He grows up to become a Ghosthunter and takes along his friend on his adventures.

 

[Valkrionn]

That would be different enough, then. I just heard the initial idea and thought it would be something different.

 

[Kurrel]

If you haven't already, you could replace the sewer with "Menders Hall". A place where you can get the damage done to your immortal body repaired, removing the aches and pains that have developed from years of labour and toil.

This strikes me as something quite important to anyone who would be expected to inhabit their bodies for a VERY long time. It could still provide health, and even happiness. Ever seen someone relieved of long term back pain?

 

[odalrick]

If you haven't already, you could replace the sewer with "Menders Hall". A place where you can get the damage done to your immortal body repaired, removing the aches and pains that have developed from years of labour and toil.

This strikes me as something quite important to anyone who would be expected to inhabit their bodies for a VERY long time. It could still provide health, and even happiness. Ever seen someone relieved of long term back pain?

It seem to me like you are describing the Flesh Studio and the Mortuary.

Maybe a unique version of the Artisans Workshop, providing happiness, more craftsman and healer slots and less production. Because it seems like more of a mechanical job...

 

[Sjru]

And what about a Dungeon UB?
One that could sharply cut crime, because I'm certainly sure that Scions hate crime.

Also consider a Levee for them. Seeing as they come from Patria, I wouldn't be surprised if they managed to build a amazing structure such as a Levee.

 

[odalrick]

New version!

This one includes a unique Healer, the Doomsoother. She can't settle or build the Apothecary, but she has Strength of Patria, that is affinity for the Scions of Patria.

Another change is that Scions no longer care about terrain. Grass, Snow or Sand: why would the Undead care? All terrain gives 1.

Also, following Sjru's suggestion/misunderstanding, all buildings that affect spawn chance have a helptext saying so. That still leaves resources, population and stuff with no indication; but it's a start.

I'll try to find the time to file down some of the rougher edges, but I've been busy and wanted to unleash the Doomsoothers on the world.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

What kind of affinity are you talking about here? (Specifics)

 

[azzedar]

New version!

This one includes a unique Healer, the Doomsoother. She can't settle or build the Apothecary, but she has Strength of Patria, that is affinity for the Scions of Patria.

no apothecary? leaves the scions without potions. and i liked undead scion alchemists roaming between strange bottles and flasks

 

[Kurrel]

I think the Scion undead might care about terrain, just not in the same fashion as living people. Where others would see farmland and pasture to feed a population, Scions would see beautiful vistas.

While food and health is still important to the Scions for their living population, I think that preserves, parks or even "Sculpted Lands" would make a nice addition. Memories of beautiful, rich and varied lands could help draw back certain souls from the vault, and the open spaces could provide happiness/health.

From playing, it seems like the Scions could easily be played two ways.
- Arrogant, demanding, consuming and dark, using any and all means to power.
- Stirred by good memories, fine things, love and family along with the desire to appreciate these things pretty much forever.

Both are neat ways to see an undead civ and I'd like to see these 'paths' enabled more. Thinking, feeling, remembering undead make for an interesting concept.

 

[odalrick]

What kind of affinity are you talking about here? (Specifics)

She gains strength as your civilization does.

Currently, it's ( .1*capital population + .75*patrian artefacts + holy cities ) and weapons, though I intend to add more. Culture will figure in and probably total number of GP.

 

[Sjru]

So... a healer that plays the role of the tough guy?
What about the AI? Do they handle it? Or just settle the healer?

(BTW: A good quote from the Doomsoother, when facing a enemy: Come over here, I promise I will heal you!")
guess where I got that one

 

[azzedar]

...This one includes a unique Healer, the Doomsoother. She can't settle ...

So... a healer that plays the role of the tough guy?
What about the AI? Do they handle it? Or just settle the healer?

pretty much answers the question.

 

[odalrick]

What about the AI?

Good question. I have no idea how the AI tags work so I tend to gloss over them. I copied the tags from the Doomgiver now, since she's basically supposed to be another Doomsomething.

And while she can't settle, she can vaporize herself to fuel a Golden Age. Maybe I should remove that too...

So... a healer that plays the role of the tough guy?

The scions do things differently. Her main job is helping people transition into patrian society. That is: kill people. She doesn't actually ever heal people, they just spontaneously get better as fate is twisted into the "correct" path. Then she murders them.

no apothecary? leaves the scions without potions. and i liked undead scion alchemists roaming between strange bottles and flasks

I had the thought of replacing most Great People of the Scions to show how they are different.

The Healer would become even more focused on "converting" the living. The Commander becomes a retired soldier, decorated and wealthy after years of service, a cross between Artist and Engineer. The Commander niche is fulfilled by the Great Artist; what use is there risking your eternal existence in combat unless a Bard is there to immortalize your achievements. Great Engineers would then fulfil the Healer role, after all repairing the undead has more in common with carpentry than healing. (Priests, Merchants and Sages have the same purpose as living counterparts.)

So then Engineers could build your apothecary.

Good idea or pointless confusion?

I think the Scion undead might care about terrain, just not in the same fashion as living people. Where others would see farmland and pasture to feed a population, Scions would see beautiful vistas.

True, but Deserts, Glaciers and Grasslands provide equal opportunity for beauty. Even hellterrain can be beautiful; consider the portals in Oblivion.

I quite like the idea of landscaping, but I don't have any idea what sort of benefit there would be. Free specialists would seem appropriate, but they can't give fractional specialists and one per improvement would be excessive. Happiness is pretty much a non issue. Yields are useless, since the Scions won't be able to work them. Maybe I can do something creative with the Scion palace and citizens: -1 +1 per citizen; and have vistas give free citizens.

Part of the problem is that I think the Scions are at a pretty good level power-wise. Any benefit I add means I have to remove some other benefit to preserve that.

 

[azzedar]

.
Good idea or pointless confusion?

both. changing the roles of gp can be difficult relating points you get from wonders, specialists, etc.
but its a good idea and i, for my part, like it.

 

[Tarquelne]

Any benefit I add means I have to remove some other benefit to preserve that.

Lower Awakened/Reborn creation odds?


The landscaping and Great Persons ideas are interesting.

Another flavorful (but time consuming) thing that might be done with the Scions is replace all or some of the HL Commerce bonus with generally bizarre and grotesque items that can be used or turned to gold. Each worked HL tile could give a per/turn chance for such an item popping up.

Similarly, improvements on HL tiles could give a per/turn chance to discover HL resources.

 

[odalrick]

Lower Awakened/Reborn creation odds?

They're quite low as it is thank you.

Besides, short of destroying stuff that boost the rate, I have no idea how to change that rate.

Another flavorful (but time consuming) thing that might be done with the Scions is replace all or some of the HL Commerce bonus with generally bizarre and grotesque items that can be used or turned to gold.

One reason I like a flat bonus is that it implies the stuff found in haunted lands are too varied to be enumerated by a finite number of resources.

I could remove from haunted land in general and add a some generic upgrades that boost hauned lands tiles. Similar to the farmer event that can upgrade his farm for or .