Monarch game. Help me to win one

[jeremiahrounds]

I chopped everything in the city radius of the capital. I laid down my 2nd city NE of the cows for a fast placement and more chops. But there it used the cows for a bonus food had access to 4 green squares. and got me some fur while making it likely i would end up with gold. It also went a long way to removing barbarians from the ne. I chopped everything in its city radius.

I actually put down my 3rd city on the east side of the horses. That way I got elephants, horses, laid claim to some wine, and 4 flood plain squares. In addition to having some hills. Really its even better spot than your starting city. I note it cause its mid way between where you wanted to put cities.
Here i felt going down south was to far for my 3rd city. But at the same time I wanted to lay my claim to those beautiful squares. Mansa is working north off screen.

4th city was on a long river near the wine between the wine and gold. After stonehenge I pretty much now how a contingious empire. going down.

5th city ended up being a barbarian conquest in the very tip of the south west.

And at that point all the turf was divided up was nothing to do but cannabilize my own spaces.

 

[Lao Tzu]

Round played. Will post the report today.

 

[Lao Tzu]

With Quin being protective and Mansa having Skirmishers I decided to delay early war until more advanced units then warriors. Capital was able to build settlers every 6 turns(with some chopping). Feel the power of seafood and cattles. First one claimed site 1E of gold(plenty of forest, some hammer potential). Second built city on the red spot and brought some bad news: Mansa settled on that commerce heavy river, denying me the green dot. So the third settler had to claim pink area. Settling those cities lowered my slider to 60% but financial leader can easily overcome those problems.
IW was done shortly after and I found iron right in the BFC of the pink city. Monuments and workers were built everywhere, a also started cottage-spam vine city to bring much needed commerce in. Areas to the east and south were settled fast by Mansa and Quin so I start preparing country to war. I beelined construction, built barracks in capital, pink & gold cities and chopped an army of swordsmans, cats and axemans. I also put some hammer-investment into Stonehenge for money.
And some turns before war I met the fourth civ on my continent - Hannibal. He's upset with Mansa so I immediately gain -4 for trading with worst enemy. I trade to him some tech which brought to cautious level with him. I also traded with Mansa(who is pleased with me for some unknown reason) and asked him nicely to gift me hinduism, which allowed me to start researching literature. I also demanded sailing from Quin and he agreed.
During the war I destroyed little crappy city to the west of Quin's iron, captured his capital (poor fool was building Great Lighthouse all that time instead of forces) and razed city on northern horses and near eastern rice. After regrouping, I also captured city to the south of vine-spot for its ivory supplies. In that time I traded/researched CoL and Currency, which allowed staying at 60% science. I also built city in the north on furs for happiness and backup iron supply.

Now I need some good advice:
Should I peacefully develop until Maces?
Or should I reinforce main army with some cats/Jumbos/swords and go harras Mansa(unfortunately he has longbows now). I badly want that holy city of Confucianism and i'd like to destroy another 2 settlements in my part of the world and to pillage all his improvements before he will gain Xbows and maces.

save:http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/103818/Anniba_AD-0375.CivWarlordsSave

 

[carl corey]

Nice development so far. I'll take a look at the save before giving my thoughts on how to continue. The good thing is, when you decide to take on Mansa's holy city it's just a stone throw away from your own cultural borders, so it will easily fall. The bad thing is, until you take it it will pressure Nanjing a lot and that city may flip to Mansa. So at a first glance a quick war is best.

When you have time and economic power you should resettle the North to get silver for the happiness bonus. More after I look at the save.

 

[Killroyan]

I would build on infrastructure a bit (what you are building now) and then quickly get some cats/jumbo's and definitely take Djenne. Taking that city alone is already a blow to MM. Maybe the city with pigs and fish is another option especially if Beijing had the great lighthouse. The right city of MM (below Bejing) should be razed. Then settle for peace and some techs or maybe even make him your vassal. And I agree with Carl with getting the silver online if your economy has recovered.

 

[carl corey]

By the way, you should send something to scout Mansa's lands while you still have open borders, to be able to plan for future attacks.

 

[carl corey]

Ok, Cuzco needs to grow now. It has to take advantage of the GL and NE. Also, why are you researching Machinery before Civil Service? The first won't give you much in terms of units, you'll still have to wait for CS to get Macemen, and in the meantime you'd be able to run Bureaucracy to boost capital production and commerce. Machinery should follow right after that, but it would be researched at a faster pace (due to Bureaucracy).

You have a lot of unconnected resources for the number of workers you have. Now is not such a problem, since Hannibal and Mansa don't have much to trade back, but once you meet the other continent you should try to sell them your surplus. Don't forget about it when the time nears. By the way, you have a cottage on a wine tile at Machu Pichu. The city doesn't stand very well on food, and a winery gives the tile +1 food. Even if you lose some commerce I'd make the switch.

Where do you plan to build Heroic Epic? It's available and you have marble to speed it up even more. It will greatly help you to take the whole continent.

You don't really have troops right now. You'll have to wait a bit before attacking, meaning you'll get to Macemen anyway. So take your time, build Catapults and Elephants for now, Macemen later, then attack. You're top in production goodjob: especially for domination attempts) and with forges online you'll be even higher, so there should be no problem in surpassing Mansa's power. You don't need to wait for that to happen to attack though, as he'll scatter his troops between his cities anyway.

Don't neglect Triremes on both sides of the continent. You don't want Cuzco and Beijing to suddenly lose all the seafood tiles! Beijing has to build them for itself, but Ollantaytambo can build them for Cuzco.

What are your plans with the Great General? Super medic? Which reminds me, you need a medic unit. Maybe if you can trade Currency to Hannibal for Horseback Riding (I know, not a very good trade, but hey, make the most of it!) and build stables in the cities which produce Elephants, build a chariot in one of them and give it Combat I and Medic I.

That's about it for now. Let's hear your plans.

 

[pigswill]

This looks like a good time for you to think about victory condition you're aiming for. You've got a decent amount of territory but your army and your cities both need working on before you expand much further.
Whether you decide to go army first or city improvements first one thing you need to do is explore the rest of your continent. Depending on your victory you could think about how soon you want caravels for overseas exploration.

 

[Lao Tzu]

I'm playing round 3 now. Mansa vassalised with 6 cities and now is a great buddy. Hannibal is friendly, because I've converted to buddhism. Met another continent - Ragnar, Victoria, Hatty (diplomacy is very complicated now). I'm teching to tanks, then total war mode.

Also, why are you researching Machinery before Civil Service? The first won't give you much in terms of units, you'll still have to wait for CS to get Macemen, and in the meantime you'd be able to run Bureaucracy to boost capital production and commerce. Machinery should follow right after that, but it would be researched at a faster pace (due to Bureaucracy).

I was afraid of Hannibals intrusion. Xbows are good defenders and I wanted them heavily (irony is, i didn't manage to build even one - now that's a move). And my capital wasn't so great to take full advantage of quite expensive civic.

You have a lot of unconnected resources for the number of workers you have. Now is not such a problem, since Hannibal and Mansa don't have much to trade back, but once you meet the other continent you should try to sell them your surplus. Don't forget about it when the time nears. By the way, you have a cottage on a wine tile at Machu Pichu. The city doesn't stand very well on food, and a winery gives the tile +1 food. Even if you lose some commerce I'd make the switch.

Vine cottage was built in early game to fix $ deficit. And, btw, all 4 early cities(I don't count capital) turned up to be :thumbdown

You don't really have troops right now. You'll have to wait a bit before attacking, meaning you'll get to Macemen anyway. So take your time, build Catapults and Elephants for now, Macemen later, then attack. You're top in production ( especially for domination attempts) and with forges online you'll be even higher, so there should be no problem in surpassing Mansa's power. You don't need to wait for that to happen to attack though, as he'll scatter his troops between his cities anyway.

To that stack I added four 7-exp Jumbos, 2 Maces with CRII and 2 cats with CA. One of elephants became super medic, so I have no problems in capturing Mansas cities.

Don't neglect Triremes on both sides of the continent. You don't want Cuzco and Beijing to suddenly lose all the seafood tiles! Beijing has to build them for itself, but Ollantaytambo can build them for Cuzco.

That's a very solid advice. I had some epic battles on my west coast when defending nets.

What are your plans with the Great General? Super medic? Which reminds me, you need a medic unit. Maybe if you can trade Currency to Hannibal for Horseback Riding (I know, not a very good trade, but hey, make the most of it!) and build stables in the cities which produce Elephants, build a chariot in one of them and give it Combat I and Medic I.

That's what i did


I'll probably post the update tomorrow

 

[carl corey]

I'm playing round 3 now. Mansa vassalised with 6 cities and now is a great buddy. Hannibal is friendly, because I've converted to buddhism. Met another continent - Ragnar, Victoria, Hatty (diplomacy is very complicated now). I'm teching to tanks, then total war mode.

Tanks?! How long IS this round? Also, vassalizing Mansa is a great move. He does tend to vassalize pretty early in the war, and he'll still tech at a good pace after that.

I was afraid of Hannibals intrusion. Xbows are good defenders and I wanted them heavily (irony is, i didn't manage to build even one - now that's a move). And my capital wasn't so great to take full advantage of quite expensive civic.

I understand. I presume you researched Civil Service next anyway.

Vine cottage was built in early game to fix $ deficit.

Thought so. Wasn't even sure if you should have changed it until I looked at the food in that city. If I delay calendar I often farm/cottage over calendar resources since they give something extra to start with.

And, btw, all 4 early cities(I don't count capital) turned up to be :thumbdown.

Well, Beijing and the capital rocked. More than enough.

To that stack I added four 7-exp Jumbos, 2 Maces with CRII and 2 cats with CA. One of elephants became super medic, so I have no problems in capturing Mansas cities.

I bet. I was afraid you'd go in with insufficient forces and find out that he's sending a small stack to counterattack that you couldn't take on.

Don't neglect Triremes on both sides of the continent. You don't want Cuzco and Beijing to suddenly lose all the seafood tiles! Beijing has to build them for itself, but Ollantaytambo can build them for Cuzco.

That's a very solid advice. I had some epic battles on my west coast when defending nets.

Yeah, I had problems like that in some of my monarch games. I played mostly on prince pre-patch and wasn't building a navy until optics without any effects. But now I'm more careful with my seafood resources. Rebuilding fishing boats isn't fun, especially at the end of long wars when unhappiness leaves me with only a few working citizens and I want them to work the highest food tiles. Also, I usually trade surplus seafood (they get the other guy at most 2 health in coastal cities and only 1 health in inland cities), and don't want to suddenly have nothing to trade for gpt or a happiness resource!

What are your plans with the Great General? Super medic? Which reminds me, you need a medic unit. Maybe if you can trade Currency to Hannibal for Horseback Riding (I know, not a very good trade, but hey, make the most of it!) and build stables in the cities which produce Elephants, build a chariot in one of them and give it Combat I and Medic I.

That's what i did

Great minds think alike... and so do we.

I'll probably post the update tomorrow

Looking forward to it.

 

[Lao Tzu]

OMG late game was far more interesting and challenging then the early steps.
Some screenies first:
Feel the power of Democracy * Territory

Well, Mansa did stoped being vassal of me and probably saved my game. He culturaly bombed one of my cities to gain freedom. And that finally allowed me to sign DP with Hannibal. Also I provoked some wars on the other continent (Ragnar vs. Hatty, Victoria vs. Ragnar, later Hannibal and Mansa vs. Hatty). Actually, diplomacy is a way to go in a peacefull game.

Great GNP and terrioty, military sucks. I decided not to go to war in the late game because I hate MMing those large stacks.

Well, 1 of 5. But this city is really great

At some point of the game I even forget that Huayna is not philosophical

Late finish -> low score. Should have focused on victory condition earlier in the game

Here we go

Analysis:
Strong side of that game was succesfull early warmongering, heavy techtrading and active use of diplomacy. Lots of Great People also helped
Weak side: incredibly low power throughout the game(Lucky me, there were no Monty/Alex nearby), bad managment of national wonders (only Mt. R., NE, SY) built, even Oxford was forgotten(with the help of academies I had 4 cities with >300 beakers, though), haven't gain shrine for Confu city.

P.S.
Sorry for short, uninteresting reports, guys. That game was more about winning Monarch, not writing and analysing. In some days I'll probably start another monarch-thread with completely different form of reports and game strategy.

 

[OTAKUjbski]

Do you have a just-prior-to-victory save you could upload for us?

If this is somehow against your ethics or the rules of this forum, then definitely don't.

I have a habit of reverse-engineering my games based on my last auto-save to see where I went right / wrong and to see what everybody else was during during those first few millennia when everything was black.

Grats on your win ... I especially like the surprise, twist ending where the world didn't bleed under the tracks of your war machine.

 

[Lao Tzu]

If this is somehow against your ethics or the rules of this forum, then definitely don't.

I just forgot to do that (
4 years 'til launch: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/103818/AutoSave_AD-1922.CivWarlordsSave
After win:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/103818/AutoSave_AD-1926.CivWarlordsSave

 

[Lao Tzu]

Oh, and I also forgot to mention some interesting details. Before Mansa released from me, Hannibal had enough on his hands. That made feel real paranoid, so I upgraded my veteran stack. Luckily, he attacked Hatty.
And Hannibal also managed to build UN. And Victoria was elected secretary with more then 50% votes. Luckily, it was all end before the first vote

 

[carl corey]

Nicely done. Diplomacy is really something I have to improve in order to progress to emperor.

You know, I've never had a vassal break away from me! Once vassalized they were either under my foot until the end of the game or dead in a war with a third party.

I wouldn't worry about the low score. Domination and Conquest tend to score more because the focus is on population. But if you're not into late game wars then the score isn't a reason not to go for a more peaceful approach.

Anyway, don't hesitate to post more of your games and we'll try to give some help where needed and will most probably also learn a thing or two from them too.

 

[cabert]

^^low score?
You're augustus caesar, that's not a low score.
Dan quayle is a low score.

 

[Kev]

Just a quick question on my end from earlier in your game. At one point in time you write "Monuments and workers were built everywhere".

I'm curious if you chose monuments over terraces for a reason. In my own games as HC (Monarch player), I prefer to build (more often whip) terraces even though they require more hammers. Something I'll need anyway, and the +2 culture is greater than the monument's and does not expire.

 

[Lao Tzu]

You're augustus caesar, that's not a low score.

Well, comparing to 36000+ it is a low score.

Just a quick question on my end from earlier in your game. At one point in time you write "Monuments and workers were built everywhere".

I was saving forests for quick military buildup. But it sure was a move in the wine city -> it was only used for commerce in the early game.

BTW, here is my another attempt at monarch:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=212139

 

[OTAKUjbski]

Well, comparing to 36000+ it is a low score.

Well, if you really wanna make score comparisons, all of our scores are low up against the 6-digit scores in the HoF.

I personally focus on the 'quality' of my win -- like when Montezuma attacked me last night with wave after wave of Horse Archers and Axemen only to lose the war of attrition against my marauding, pillaging stacks of Jumbos, Axemen & Chariots.

 

[carl corey]

You're right about scores. Most of mine are in the 15000-25000 bracket. Domination & conquest usually score higher, into the 30000-40000, and cultural wins lower because I'm not very good at them. Anyway, as long as I enjoy the game I won't worry about the score.