Monarch Student^ V - Justinian

[Meatbuster]

Monarch Student^ V - Justinian

Since the previous map was indeed killer, (hey, I had difficulty retrying it at Monarch,) Justinian will be given an easier time.

Justinian is Spiritual and Imperialistic. Imperialistic gives you more Great Generals and faster Settler production. "Production", meaning hammers, so this trait favors building Settlers in high-production cities rather than food-rich ones. Spiritual means faster temples and no anarchy during civics changes.

Byzantium's starting techs are nothing to write home about: Wheel and Mysticism. Mysticism MIGHT give you access to an early religion. On the other hand, if you research Fishing for this coastal-looking start, you'll be just a hop-skip away from Pottery.

Cataphracts are often compared to War Chariots and Praetorians, but are not as used. Maybe it's because Gunpowder is just a hop-skip away from Guilds. So in this game, Uncle Justin encourages you to beeline Guilds for some hot Cataphract action... long before you get Cavalry to replace them.

Despite its name, this UB isn't about hippopotamuses. It's about horses.

The Hippodrome is a vastly improved Theater, as +1 , +1 from horses and +2 more for every 10% on your culture slider can be helpful to combat war weariness. For leaders who are trekking the Aesthetics line instead of following Uncle Justin's advice, Drama is just a hop-skip from Literature.

Map Settings...
Map: Standard Fractal
Oppnents: 6
Sealevel: Medium
Climate: Temperate

Spoiler map hints, spoiler and comments :

In my test games, what can make or break the difficulty of this map, are the religion/s of your neighbors. And watch out for the guys and gals from faraway lands. Better hop-skip there before they tech like crazy.

Also, I gave you more horses than you'll ever need. Don't worry.

Finally, forgive me, for I changed someone's color to green. Again, too similar to player's color.

 

[Meatbuster]

Today's start is "almost coastal":

The Worldbuilder save is below. It is perfect for Monarch or Emperor starts, and... "okay" for other levels.

To play, unzip the worldbuilder file and place it in your Documents/My Games/Civilization 4/Saves/WorldBuilder or Documents/My Games/BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game by choosing Single Player -> Play a Scenario, where you may adjust the speed and difficulty to your liking. Or Custom Scenario, if you also wish to turn off huts, barbarians or events and adjust other settings.

Let us compare strategies and progress with other players as well as learn to play. Win or lose, for better or worse, feel free to report on your glorious exploits. Perhaps other players can give you advice on your game.

Please keep your reports in spoiler tags. It's better that way.

Recommended Checkpoints:
*1000BC or 1AD or 100AD
*800AD, 1000AD or Liberalism
*1200AD or 1400AD
*Victory!

The save is below, feel free to... uh, hop-skip to it.

 

[JTMacc99]

Hmm... Settling in place seems highly unlikely. I guess I'll move the warrior 1 NE to see what's up there and then move the settler on to the corn to see what's below. I'm guessing that I'll probably settle 1E of the corn, which loses the wine but picks up the crabs.

This is another leader I can't remember the last time I used, so I look forward to it. Spiritual is fun, and I'm not completely against founding an early religion, but without fishing to work those crabs from the first turn, it will be take a lot of turns to do so. Maybe I'll look into capturing a holy city early on...

 

[dirtyparrot]

I think I would settle 1W for instant early production.

 

[NihilZero]

This should be interesting. Any time the randomiser has given me Justinian I have completely failed to get off to a good start and I ended up quitting after getting into a hopeless position. His starting techs are problematic, plus the urge to try for a religion usually doesn't help speed things up either.

This time I shall do better!

 

[Murky]

1SW gives you the most river tiles and food sources, but I would move the Warrior 1N or NE first.

 

[cripp7]

Spoiler :

my 1st MS game, so thought I'd try it out. Sorry, missed the 1000BC save! Settled 1SW and started fish>mining>ag>ah>bw>writing>sailing>mason>alhpa>currency
warrior,wb,(finish)warrior x3, settler,worker,settler,worker. Found Wang to the NE and Osaka to the NW.

Built GLH around 625BC
Teched up to Alpha and traded that around for Construction. With cats/swords/spears/chariots went on an Osaka rampage, kicking him off the continent in 1000AD. Washington vassaled to Wang around 1AD, thank god we're all Buddhist, thank you Osaka for wonderwhoring a little

Land at 1000AD

.

Now it time for recovery, have to keep an on Wang, has has Guild which I need. I'm 4 turns from Lib. Someone take a look at my save any give me some tips please!

 

[Inso]

I'd settle 1W no doubt unless the warrior reveals something amazing. Shall play this tomorrow!

 

[Kadazzle]

I'm nearly 100% certain that I'm going to settle 1W and do a settler-first start, tech towards BW, then spam workers and settlers big-time.

 

[Meatbuster]

@cripp:

Spoiler :

First of all, you have an iron grip on Liberalism, so you are in a very good position. However you seem to lack techs to counter the Knights. And you don't even have Macemen. Engineering is a long way off for you, perhaps going to Military Tradition for Cuirassers (it's sad to skip Cataphracts) or Gunpowder are fast ways you can get a defense in case of a remote Wang backstab. Alternatively, try trading out Paper for Metal Casting and Machinery and Engineering. (I doubt you can get anything good from Isabella.)

As for Liberalism: Military Tradition, Constitution, Democracy and Astronomy are your picks now (get a few techs first). Steel is an eternity away, you can't afford to wait that long.

edit: Can settle a good spot south of Agra. Also I'm surprised you didn't improve the gold after all these years.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Immortal/Normal No Events

I was pretty unconventional in this one so far.

25 AD

Spoiler :

Settled on the plains hill. Opened AG (popped it from the hut a turn or two later), Fishing, mining, hunting/archery (lul!), animal husbandry, sailing, masonry, bronzeworking. I was able to make a lot of interesting little early trades.

Obviously gunning AP here. However, I've decided to use it as a safety valve and try winning with military. GLH fueled the expansion, I build 0 cottages in this entire game, deciding to rely on AP , the ridiculousness that is the GLH + trade routes, and whatever tiles I get. I do not attempt to run specs off farms (that's weak), instead just mass producing infrastructure and flinging the few techs I get my hands on around as trade bait.

To 1390 AD - lib/circumnavigation races settled, show on my plan for victory.

Spoiler :

I hold the monopoly on Theo long enough to pick up AP and hagia sophia (I've not built many workers in this, relying on careful micro, minimal roading, and the whip to allow adequate expansion + the wonders). I then trade it around for lots of gold and key economy techs. I go literature just for NE + trades and then for civil service, and then finally to divine right (which I use as an amazing trade chip to pull me things like guilds, engineering, machinery, paper, and philosophy). I miss out on spiral by 1 turn thanks to Asoka...the only reason I traded DR so early was that wang requested it and would probably have declared on me if I didn't accept and get him back to pleased (the fruit built paya and went early FR grrrr). Nevertheless, I got my beakers worth off of it, and I can always TAKE spiral (and sankore for that matter) later.

I also lose lib by 1 turn and never see the light of day in the circumnav. race. I have decided not to colonize that significant landmass to the east, instead dealing with my neighbors.

I am backwards in tech somewhat. However, I figured it better to clear wang's stack and start on a few of his cities NOW, before he gets rifles. My production base is amazing and after rifling I will go state property for workshops to push it over the edge. Although my opponents will get rifles I'll have a huge production lead on wang before he gets them and he now has no SoD. I'll probably kill him off completely, take Asoka's mainland cities+capitulation, then turn on freddy. From there it's just going to be a mass cavalry + airship capping spree. Some of the guys on the other continent (maybe even fred) will get infantry but with my production it's not going to matter.

 

[Lansky]

Well if nothing else this map is in fact a lot easier than the last one. A LOT easier.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Well if nothing else this map is in fact a lot easier than the last one. A LOT easier.

High level maps that give the AI tremendous amounts of land for a given world size are troublesome.

While on noble or even monarch this issue isn't as pronounced, the AI can expand very quickly on the highest levels. A human with proper micro can keep up, but runs into a critical problem: keeping up results in total crash when keeping up requires double digit cities and there isn't much commerce to be had. Because of this, the AI is virtually guaranteed a marked land advantage on land-only maps of a given size. It's still possible to overcome it for very good players, usually by grabbing a quick tech lead using a smaller empire and then going to town on the AI to make up the land deficit. Although this is somewhat uphill due to a massive AI production lead, it will still work.

Nevertheless the game is not, and can not be 100% balanced between map types. I'm led to believe that the likes of fractal, continents, custom continents, pangaea, donut (with water in the middle), or something that has a mix of land and water is the best balance medium...with the AI being unable to truly cope with watery maps and having a big advantage on land-only ones.

This map does feel pretty easy on the surface but there are some things that make it feel that way to those who are experienced, such as:

Spoiler :

1. Ability to use a culture pop to gain trade access (and possibly even settle) the landmass with izzy/etc.
2. GLH opening, with lots of AI trade routes and even an island available to pump up the value of trade routes
3. Triple AIs that tech well but do not declare at pleased on our continent.
4. Not shredding yourself rushing PRO wang kon, but instead expanding adequately with plenty of room.

However, whether those reads are hard or easy for someone depends on their experience. It felt pretty easy to me too, but I wouldn't be surprised (nor should someone feel bad) if we see a couple people stumble or come out semi-flat here. The leader himself is after all somewhat unconventional.

 

[NihilZero]

Spoiler :

Weird how everybody is finding this one easy. I cruised through the Toku game but I am continuing my run of bad luck here with Justinian and am tempted to throw in the towel. Wang is such a financial, gold-in-the-BFC, settler spamming monster that there is no room left for me to do anything. I got off to a pitifully slow start, as I always do when I try to play the Byzantines.

Also, a couple of curiosities - the default speed on this map is epic, which totally throws me as I'm not used to the pace of it; and even though I turned off huts, they are still present to torment me with their cruel malice.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

You can't turn off huts via clicking the box in worldbuilder games, you have to literally find/replace the goody hut thing out of the text file.

Default speed is epic but you can play any of course.

Although others found it easy (and I'm doing well), I did comment that some people would probably come out flat in a game like this . Different skill sets shine in this game vs the last one (which I was out of town for so just read).

 

[NihilZero]

Default speed is epic but you can play any of course.

Sure, but I wasn't expecting epic speed and didn't feel like restarting...which was silly as it would have taken about ten seconds.

Justinian seems to be a problem for me, I have never done anything but fail horribly with him.

Maybe I'll persevere and see if I can dig myself out of it. It's probably not as bad as I think. Will post my poor start later anyway, for comparartive purposes.

 

[JTMacc99]

Monarch/Epic: Sometime before 1AD (I forget where I left off.)

Spoiler :

Okay, I settled 1S, which picks up the pigs. As it turns out, this may be my only commerce city for a while. The rest of the southern coast line is nice, and I mapped out about eight cities to pick everything up to the edge of the jungle.

And man, that's some thick jungle. When I left off, I was about to go for iron working, since I've got no copper and would like to settle at least one city on my own up there before Wang takes it all for himself.

NOT sure how I'm going to finance this empire. It has been pretty easy to settle everything I want, but mostly I'm looking at cities that have lots of nice hammers and enough food to feed them.

Justin's traits are an odd combo, aren't they? Fast settlers, generals, and temples. Weird. I guess the best thing to do is attempt to take advantage of the anarchy free civic changes.

 

[cripp7]

@cripp:

Spoiler :

First of all, you have an iron grip on Liberalism, so you are in a very good position. However you seem to lack techs to counter the Knights. And you don't even have Macemen. Engineering is a long way off for you, perhaps going to Military Tradition for Cuirassers (it's sad to skip Cataphracts) or Gunpowder are fast ways you can get a defense in case of a remote Wang backstab. Alternatively, try trading out Paper for Metal Casting and Machinery and Engineering. (I doubt you can get anything good from Isabella.)

As for Liberalism: Military Tradition, Constitution, Democracy and Astronomy are your picks now (get a few techs first). Steel is an eternity away, you can't afford to wait that long.

edit: Can settle a good spot south of Agra. Also I'm surprised you didn't improve the gold after all these years.

Spoiler :

Thanks, I'll play this out just a little more, but may do a replay and keep my tech path better organized. Plus keep my resources better in check.

 

[Lansky]

TMIT - I state this map is A LOT easier but of course if someone struggles that means very little. Games vary a lot even between players of the same map and difficulty based on how certain early wonders and religions fall. A few things seem to hold on this map however -

Spoiler :

Mainly that Asoka grabs an early religion along with Issy and one of the two are likely to grab Judaism. The only other AI with a high chance *normally* to grab a religion in my experience is then Liz. So the human has a very good chance to be in a religious group hug on a very green continent.

As you mentioned with sailing and some scouting foreign trade and even intercontinental foreign trade is opened up fairly easily in this game along with 3 local AIs that are easy to please and do not declare at pleased. Add in the large swath of resource rich jungle to block the AI out of (even on higher levels the AI seems to expand into jungle as a last resort with the first few settlers) and the game just felt easy.

As you mention though reads like this are becoming easier for me and assuming everyone can make them, or that I will even make them in time, is likely an ignorant assumption.

The last map was frustrating simply due to the rate the AI expands and at least for me the lack of various strategic resources to which the human player could beat the AI to without being lucky.

 

[Meatbuster]

I guess, despite the fact it will lessen the "standardness" of game settings, I'll just turn off huts in the next game and all games forward, it doesn't seem to benefit anyone much except some people who should have been better off betting on the lottery instead of playing MS^5 - Justinian and popping Scientific Method from a hut.

Spoiler :

Weird how everybody is finding this one easy. I cruised through the Toku game but I am continuing my run of bad luck here with Justinian and am tempted to throw in the towel. Wang is such a financial, gold-in-the-BFC, settler spamming monster that there is no room left for me to do anything. I got off to a pitifully slow start, as I always do when I try to play the Byzantines.

Also, a couple of curiosities - the default speed on this map is epic, which totally throws me as I'm not used to the pace of it; and even though I turned off huts, they are still present to torment me with their cruel malice.

Spoiler :

Try building wealth or research. Production is nice but food isn't much in your starting areas. Also try expanding faster. Justinian is imperialistic. If you settle your entire area plus maybe a jungle city or two to grab some resources you should do fine.

Finally if you feel you're losing the tech race, try contacting the other island early. Found a city as southwest as possible.