Monarch Student X - Charlemagne

[michmbk]

Phil - on religion:

Spoiler :

I had the same problem - religion spread like crazy all throughout the continent. I never had a chance to spread buddhism, and even though I founded confuc. and spread to Nappy, he converted to hindu, so I'm the only confucian right now. May need to go NSR as well - I still have the gold from the shrine, but diplomacy is a big problem for me because we have some mass religion spreading. Weird because only brennus is usually a religion nut in my games.

 

[djvandrake]

This is going to be real interesting.

Monarch / Epic to 925 B.C.

Spoiler :

I settled in place an started teching Polytheism. I always choose this one over meditation because if some zealot out there shoots for an early religion they'll beat me to it likely, then I might miss. Met the neighbors.

*facepalm* Ahhhh Crap.

Not a lot better, but not as much of a war machine.

Popped a scout from the hut, and sent him off to the east. The original scout continues south to find Nappy and company.

Finish Poly and found my religion.

Find Hannibal off to the far east. Challenging neighbors so far.

Don't know where he is yet. But maybe Brennus and Nappy will find him a more tempting target than me.

I put down Prague to block Nappy. Not going to make him too happy. I chose the hill and immediately built walls.

I hooked up the marble, researched writing and then completed the Oracle in the capital.

Went for Code of Laws to open up the Unique Building. If I chop these out it should help the economy big time. And...

Got Prague as a holy city.

Vienna to get those elephants. I'll need to make construction a priority for war elephants. I have a feeling I'll need as many as I can get. There's a clam off the coast that is hidden too.

Here's the state of things to my south.

And to the east.

Opinions on these city placements?

And finally the tech tree.

My tech path was:

Polytheism
Agriculture
Mining
Masonry
The Wheel
Priesthood
Writing
Code of Laws (from Oracle)
Archery
Bronze Working (no copper close by)
Pottery

I'll finish pottery then go for Iron Working. Need metals bad with this company.

I had a farm on the flood planes until the barbs got it. So I'd better churn out a few more defenders since I have barb cities to the north and south.

This one could be tough.

 

[michmbk]

5 BC to 1130 AD. This is ugly, and painful. I can't wait to see how TMIT plays this, and how he

Spoiler :

manages diplomacy. These bastards on all sides are killing me. I guess a few don't DOW at pleased - I should have paid more attention to that and accepted their religion.

As for my game, here's the gory details:

Spoiler :

Ok – right off the bat, I see a stack of 5 Shaka units near my border – he is in WHEOOHRN mode – I’m almost 100% sure I’m the target. Everyone else is at war with Churchill, so as long as he keeps their hands full, I can deal with whatever shaka brings with my pro archers. 11 turns until the HE is built – that’s all I need to survive. First things first…wonder:

Boy, does that help the tech rate. And 2 turns after I spot his units approaching, war:

5 units against 3 PRO archers and 1 chariot…good luck. I can even whip an extra archer. He sees that and starts trying to head towards an undefended city…doesn’t he realize I have roads? Dummy. A mini-walls trick nets me 124 gold – this is pretty cool. He sends his stack into a stack of mine – he loses 5, I lose 4…but all I need to do is buy time, which I do. Hit currency, and immediately, this:

Now elephants are on their way. Meanwhile, Nappy asks me to join him in war with Churchill. I accept, for diplo bonus with my neighbor, and the next turn…a Nappy backstab. Little bastard - irritates me that they can make a demand that I accept, and then DOW the next turn. Whatever – I have my first elephant, so good luck. I decide to trade literature to everyone else for gold, so now I can deficit research with authority. Then, can you believe this:

Seriously, this is about to get out of hand. I whip a spear to make sure his stack has no hope. By the way, I’m teching music for the great artist – figure he’ll be useful once I start taking some cities, and it usually has good trade value. I wouldn’t do it if others were teching well, but since no one else is teching all that well, why not. Hindsight, I paid for this, because the artist did help me, but all of a sudden, the AI went nuts on tech.

Sure enough, Hanny DOWs the next turn. Whatever – I whip another spear. 4 horse units aren’t dislodging 2 spears plus archers, although his stupid NC is a pain against spears.

He’s got an elephant following them too. The only tedious part is watching where Nappy decides to send his units – I have three cities to protect on one side. Shaka will take peace for 90 gold – fine – I take it back by giving him meditation for 105 gold. Idiot. Meanwhile, Hanny gets the love from the RNG and actually takes Augsburg. On the other side, Nappy also gets love from the RNG – 97.2% war elephant dies attacking his chariot. Unbelievable. But it’s going to turn. Oh yes….it will turn. Rheims, welcome to the Holy Roman Empire:

Nappy takes peace after that, and gives me 150 gold. He’ll be paying dearly for that soon enough. And Hanny, I’ll take my city back.

I’ve got no happiness issues, so it’s time to get out of a state religion to stop the dogpiling. Finally I get the peace treaty event with Hanny and take it. But what a pain that was. The dogpile allowed Kublai to get ahead of the rest of us, so I need to make it up. Anyway, peace happens for awhile, and I continue to settle. Also trying to build the occasional missionary to keep my gold up for my shrine. Send what should be my last settler out to the east, settle and decide it’s as good a time as any to use my sleeping artist. How’s that for a culture bomb:

Now just need to keep up military, and I was thinking I couldn't be stopped with all this land, but man, maybe I'm wrong. Because while I’m starting to get my military up and running…another dogpile:

Seriously, diplo has been ridiculous this game – everyone wants me joining their wars, and demanding stuff, and I can’t even accept a state religion, yet I still get dogpiled. I have a fair number of units in my border cities, and that great artist was fantastic because it really made Shaka trudge through my borders a long way. His stack was decent, but I inflicted a few casualties and managed to get peace for some gold. Got another peace event with Nappy and accepted, and so I cut off – what a painful war game this is. Slogging through, surviving, but constant dogpiling is keeping me from ever fully having time to recover. State of the empire and tech:

Tech isn’t too bad. I know I’m behind, but I’m 1 turn from guilds, I’ve researched half of education, and have an 85% of a GS in 3 turns…so that’d bulb rest of education and put me close to lib…but I think others might be going for lib too, so not even sure if it’s a wise move. Plus others have gunpowder too at this point. I really need to be able to amass an army to destroy Nappy though – he has only 4 cities, so shouldn’t be that hard. I just need 20 or so turns with no flippin war. Now it’s time to get nasty though – I’m building units only for awhile. This has really been frustrating because I feel like I have the most land of anyone, but can’t take advantage.

 

[michmbk]

Oh yeah - what was the tweak? I think we need to start having the original poster put the tweak in spoiler in the first post so we have a chance to know. I have a guess:

Spoiler :

Putting us right in the middle of the map as opposed to on one side. Diplo was unmanageable for me as a result of this. I think the rathaus is saving me from completely tanking this game with all the unit upkeep I'm spending.l

 

[assass1n]

@michmbk
Its best to never adopt a religion as soon as you see a zealot as they spam missionaries like crazy and spread their religion
This map had 4 AI's who don't declare at Pleased while the other 3 are total Jerks

 

[Sleepless]

Immortal/Normal 550BC

Spoiler :

I started a bit different route. Initial techs went Agr, Min, Mas, Wheel, Arch, Poly, Priest (started Oracle then forgot I needed writing for CoL ) part Pot, Writing, BW, very late, Fish then on to Aesth. Only Brennus has Alpha so hopefully will be able to trade for that very shorly.

Second city settled on the desert hill 1N of the Ivory. Third city 1N of the gold (opened HE which will be built here). Fourth city on the coast by the spices as a blocker.

I've managed to get SH, ToA (started building whilst waiting for writing to finish) and Oracle (took CoL). I won't convert to Conf just wanted it for trade purposes and the UB. I can see me trying to get a few more wonders in the capital along the way.

Stone will be on line very shortly. I will use the whip on the last turn to build the walls but not chop any forests.

I've blocked off quite a bit of land and can now start settling some more cities. Long term I will be looking to expand via Nap (thats assuming he doesn't try to expand via me first).

 

[Phil725]

Short update to 1000AD

Spoiler :

Nothing exciting really, I finished settling all of my land. I still haven't fully recovered my economy, I'm not teching very well, but then again, neither is anyone else. I just bulbed education, I'll tech off lib and probably take nat for the Taj. The capital has enough production that I can get that built pretty fast with marble. Back to back golden ages will be huge for my economy.

The whole world ended up declaring on Church, he held them off pretty well for a 1 vs 5, but eventually capped to Sully. I'm still waiting for the Renaissance to start warring. I figure I'll adopt Judaism to make the people to the east happy and I'll take out the Christians to the south. They have less cities each, so they should be easier to take out.

@ michmbk on diplomacy:

Spoiler :

I think you just got unlucky really, I'm having a very easy time with diplo personally. The early game is a little brutal with Nappy to the south and the people to the east, but after that I thought it was pretty straight forward. Everyone to the south went Christian and everyone to the East went Jewish. Church was the only exception, and everyone declaring on him got me free mutual military struggle points. Now I have everyone (except Church) at pleased, and the early favorite civic people are nearing friendly.

I made sure I got out of Buddhism early though, that's probably what hurt you most. Once everyone started asking for techs I just went into doormat mode. Getting points for fair trade, tribute and open borders gets everyone to pleased. Your not safe from Nappy and Shaka, but if they choose to go after you instead of a heathen, there's nothing you can do really. You would avoid these 3 and 4 civ dogpiles though.

 

[michmbk]

On religion:

Spoiler :

I got out of buddhism right when I hit COL and confucianism. Sent a missionary to Nappy and one to Hanny. Nappy converted, but he later became hindu. That's what really killed me.

I need to go to bed - it's way too late, but my game is turning. The AI doesn't have enough land to dogpile me and get away with it. Steel is a great equalizer...It's turning big time...

 

[oyzar]

Settling S for the wine bonus seems pretty good. With corn and that many unforested hills i don't see a reason not to go worker first while teching AG -> mining...

 

[Ai Shizuka]

michmbk:

Spoiler :

Just added an extra civ. Usually there are 6 rivals on a standard map. Here we have 7.

About your game, that's some rotten luck. There are some total jerks, but I tried to compensate with a few reasonable leaders like Hannibal, Brennus and Churchill. Sadly Churchill seems to end boxed pretty badly in most games so far.

In my experience I find Hannibal one of the easiest leaders to get along with. He's supposed to block Shaka here, but he joined the dogpile in your game. Oh well, nothing a few elephants can't fix.

 

[Gumbolt]

Spoiler :

This is a funny ole game. Playing Emperor Epic.

I grabbed hindi and this started in my capital. I went settler first.

I avoided mining/BW and went for religion/agriculture/AH and eventually priesthood/writing and grabbed col. I traded for alphabet and then traded for BW. I had plenty of forest for wonders.

Rexxed about 7 cities and grabbed one due to cultural borders.

Built Oracle, mids, HG, Glib.

I am struggling a bit on tech front but I am now doing 185 beakers a turn around 610ad.

The Ai have engineering/ theology. Its a fast teching game. Most need CS or theology.

In terms of power anyone west of me went bud. Anyone east is Jewish. Poor ickle me is stuck in the middle.

 

[michmbk]

Ai Shizuka - on the twist:

Spoiler :

I think the extra AI is what saved me. I think if Hanny or Brennus had any more land, they'd be too big for me to catch up. But now that I've wiped out Nappy, I'm up to 15 cities...three are production powers, so no way for the AI to match that production with 8-9 cities apiece. It's going to be a slow slog, but barring some sort of complete world dogpile at once, I think I'm going to pull through. This won't be one of my high scores.

I feel like I'm actually playing this like AI Charlie - be a religious zealot, grab lots of land while falling behind in tech, then trying to use sheer size to muscle everyone else. Not to mention I have AI stupidity, since my shrined holy city has heroic epic and ironworks as its national wonders...Brilliant!

 

[Tempesta13]

Emperor/Normal part 2 to 1250AD

Spoiler :

Really had to stop here and figure out what to do - my strategy is all over the place on this one. I'm friendly with sully and brennus, and a high pleased with nappy. We actually we're friendly for a little while. Now i'm debating what to do. I could easily take out nappy, then brennus, gaining a lot of land but losing 2 of my 3 friends. Hannibal is #1 in pop and also has the tech lead so i'd like to attack him instead. Problem with that is he has a high power, and will get military tradition in 2 turns. That means i'm gonna have to wait until rifling probably.

My tech rate isn't that great - so i really need to get more land. I don't think a UN win is possible even if i built it, running against hannibal, and i get 3 AI's votes. Not sure though. I can't play a whole game without a war anyway, that's crazy. Need to put hammers to good use.

So i can...
1. Take out Nappy soon, followed with Brennus getting a lot of land.
2. Keep my friends friendly, take out Hannibal later.

Either way i should be #1 in pop if i can war successfully. If i go route #1 i could build the UN, since Hannibal will be #2 in pop. If i go route #2 i'd have to get Kublai or Shaka to build the UN, since Sully would be #2 in pop. Which ever one i chose would also allow me to go for a space win also if the UN victory doesn't work out.

Also for the tech path - i'm thinking about going banking/economics cause no one has banking yet - but lib is still open. I haven't been going for it, but if i go education now i might be able to get it first.

I only got 1 scientist this game - used for an academy. That's why i didn't go for lib. Getting a merchant in 2 turns that i can burn on a trade mission - maybe i could use deficit research to get economics fast, getting another merchant, and go through education and lib fast and still get it (really late). If brennus is going for education it wouldnt work - or if hannibal starts education after MT.

@michmbk

Spoiler :

Looked at your report... You blocked nappy really well and you're right about needing peace for awhile - then you should be able to pull ahead with all those cities. If you could get lib you would be in great shape. Only problem is that Hannibal has education. You could see his research when he had 2 turns left on education, can you still see it? If he's not going for lib then you should be able to get it easy, since you can start on it in 3 turns. No one has nationalism yet so that'd be great to get it with lib. Hopefully Hannibal is going for it, so you can grab lib first.

I really wish i'd have blocked nappy like that - but i suppose it might have helped me avoid a war with him. Having all 3 AI's to the SW at friendly makes diplo a lot easier. Once you get more cottages developed, and the cottage civics going your research should take off. Protective really should help you in this situation to hold onto your cities until that happens.

 

[Gumbolt]

A few thoughts on war and other things

Spoiler :

In terms of war its quite frustrating.

Shaka dow on French. 10-15 tunrs later 2-3 turns away from french border peace is declared. Its the same story for the rest of the AI wars. They travel half the map and make peace before a fight has begun.

But for me the French/Zulu are happy to send in a 20 strong stack and attack.

I nabbed liberalism around 1180ad. Could of streched out a better tech as no one had edu but they did have nationalism and astronomy. Fast teching.

If I hadnt skipped BW at start I could of done an early rush.

In terms of the UU. I dont think the AI realises how powerful the UU is as they keep wasting macemen vs them. Bizarre!!!

 

[Lansky]

Emperor/Epic 325AD

Spoiler :

After reading the brief discussion on settle on the wine and go for a religion I decided to go one step further and go religion/priest economy. I have not done this on emperor but the start looks really good for it. Above average commerce start and marble. Start immediately on a worker and teching Hinduism. Kublai founds Buddhism while I found Hinduism. During this time I get agriculture from a hut and decide to really go all in with religions. I tech archery, masonry, monotheism, priesthood, wheel, pottery, writing, and use the Oracle to get theology. I decided to go against CoL just due to the beaker differential.

Before the Oracle I settled two cities to the south in the jungle. I then settled a fourth after the Oracle to the far east blocking Hannibal off from coming west. With a bit of planning and a ton of luck I manage to get Judaism and Christianity founded in Vienna. Vienna begins to pump Christian missionaries after using the initial one in Nuremburg. Vienna sends missionaries to my west after Nuremburg has sent enough east to convert Hannibal and Shaka to Christianity. No one else has writing yet so this is my window to make Kublai the heathen. Once the entire world is Christian I spread Judaism around a bit and tech Alphabet to backfill. Vienna is now an amazing gold city without even having a market as of yet. Chop ToA there as well as it had not yet been built by 1000BC. My research slider will be at 100% for the remainder of the game thanks to this gem.

This game is already over. My capital is a super GP pump along with being my wonder pump. I've spawned 3 prophets (used on Hindu/Christian/Jewish holy buildings) and just got another this turn. Not sure if I want to save him for a GA or build a shrine for a religion I probably won't bother spreading. Capital will now try and get my first GS but the pool is really polluted. Built MoM and used the GA from Music to start a very early Golden Age. I feel I have enough developed land for it to be worthwhile.

Vienna - WS city one day....

Prague - Unit Pump once AP finally finishes (I have been building it since around 1100BC)

Aachen - GP Farm/Wonder Pump

Diplo/Map/Tech

Side notes - For some reason despite the Christian loving Nap and Shaka dislike Churchill and I've already had 1 phony war and one pillaging foray myself. In this game I'll happily dog pile someone that is not me. The peace treaty with Sully is oddly enough from his declaring at Friendly(????) and stealing two of my workers. My power score is awful right now as I'm relying on my diplomatic situation very heavily but he can declare at friendly? It happened right as a ten turn peace treaty expired after he requested I enter HR, which of course I did. Anyone shed some light on this?

Oh and the UB is amazing!

 

[michmbk]

Tempesta:

Spoiler :

Looks like this has been a tough game for many. Even having pretty good diplo, it's tough to do that, get decent land and maintain tech, because Hanny is a good techer and Brennus is always tough when he gets big - he's worthless otherwise. It looks like you're primed to start taking off though. It gets tough at this point, because this is when I find on emperor that the AI takes off as well...right about after they hit education, they really seem to power up.

I've got a ways to go still, but a fun third report is coming tonight once I get back to it. Cliffs notes version - I hit lib, got more backstabs, I'm 5 techs back and have some 1 on 3 war action too! This has been both fun and ugly.

 

[Tempesta13]

Part 3 to 1600 AD

Spoiler :

I played up to 1600 and it's turning into an unwinnable game for me unfortunately. I declared on Hannibal and took the two cities closest to me then got peace. The war went pretty well but i soon found myself way behind in tech. The 3 SW AI's are all friendly with me, except now Sully passed Hannibal as #1 in pop. That would be OK, since i was very close to #1 in pop, and could just take a few more cities from Hannibal to ensure a UN win - except Sully took Shaka and Kublai as vassals. This means i have to build the UN, and won't get his votes. Don't think there is any way to win diplo at this point.

I'm a few techs behind everyone except Shaka and Kublai now. Don't think i could win a space victory at this point either. Hannibal has more power than me, with all his cuirrassiers. I will have rifling soon, and i have cannons already, so i think the only chance i have is to draft rifles and finish off Hannibal. I am 100% safe from war because all AI's are friendly, or vassals of a friendly - other than Hannibal.

If i conquer Hannibal, i might have enough pop to pass Sully as #1 - then i would need what's left of Hannibal, or Shaka or Kublai to build the UN. I think I can handle conquering Hannibal, but doing that AND teching to mass media before the AI's can isn't going to happen I don't think. I'd have to beat them by a lot to allow Shaka or Kublai to build the thing. I'll play this out until i'm sure there is no way to win - if i do manage to win it will be very tough.

 

[michmbk]

Tempesta - wow - I thought from your last report you were looking ready to take control. I'm starting to notice that on emperor, the AI seems to start taking off at about 1000 AD - seems like we have to work hard to get a meaningful edge before then, otherwise it's tough sledding catching up.

 

[Loki Strikes]

Tempesta - wow - I thought from your last report you were looking ready to take control. I'm starting to notice that on emperor, the AI seems to start taking off at about 1000 AD - seems like we have to work hard to get a meaningful edge before then, otherwise it's tough sledding catching up.

Era bonuses, its even worse at higher difficulties, I like to be considerably bigger around then for just that reason.

 

[michmbk]

Finally finished and won. too late to post a writeup, but that seriously was the most ridiculous warmongering game ever. I've never had that much unhappiness from my population, many cities starved down 2-3 pop points during the constant warring. Report to come tomorrow.