Let's try to rush culture, harbors, and courthouses in conquered cities to prevent flips, and concentrate on building another invasio force. This time, a good third should be defenders. I also like the combat settler, let's try that again. Hopefully we can raze some neighboring cities so that our beachhead city doesn't face so much cultural pressure. And don't bother with trebs, cannons are coming soon. Muskets, cannons, and knights is what we need here, maybe some longbows if we can't build knights yet. Anything but MDI. Those guys always end up wondering into the field undefended...
Monarch Training 2
- Thread starter Admiral Kutzov
- Start date
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
D. Richter (pikeman) -
danz -
Sir Clive -
keiji - playing
AK - got it after keiji
viper275 - on deck
@danz - I think we're stylistic (is that a word?)
opposites which is a good thing in an SG. I must be a barb because I tend to raze cities to prevent flips in border towns. I also tend to go with quantity over quality with regard to muskets v. MDI. I have to look at our cash, but trebs can be upgraded... 
danz -
Sir Clive -
keiji - playing
AK - got it after keiji
viper275 - on deck
@danz - I think we're stylistic (is that a word?)
opposites which is a good thing in an SG. I must be a barb because I tend to raze cities to prevent flips in border towns. I also tend to go with quantity over quality with regard to muskets v. MDI. I have to look at our cash, but trebs can be upgraded... Keiji
Warlord
Seeing as how nobody is arguing with Viper's stand on going after the Zulu first, I guess I'll go with that for the rest of my turn. I'm probably not going to be able to make a decent assault yet, so I'll try to gather an invasion fleet somewhere of the Zulu coast for the next player to play with.
@AK - don't worry cash is not really a problem.
@AK - don't worry cash is not really a problem.
lurker's comment:
Just a little reminder on the flip thing.....
Culture in a border town will not reduce flip risk. There are two primary factors in flip risk: relative distance from the capitols and a garrison size. A third factor, comparative culture ( if your cultural value is higher than the opponent's) also has an effect, though the impact is small relative to distance and garrison size.
I think most of you use Dianthus' CrpMapStat. The "Flipping" page appears pretty accurate in its calculation of per turn risk factors. Use it to properly size the garrison in captured towns and new towns. Recently played a game where I applied it rigorously and had no flips so long as I followed the recommendations, even in towns right next to an enemy's capitol. One swallow does not make a summer....but I am pretty confident that the utility works as advertised.
Just a little reminder on the flip thing.....
Culture in a border town will not reduce flip risk. There are two primary factors in flip risk: relative distance from the capitols and a garrison size. A third factor, comparative culture ( if your cultural value is higher than the opponent's) also has an effect, though the impact is small relative to distance and garrison size.
I think most of you use Dianthus' CrpMapStat. The "Flipping" page appears pretty accurate in its calculation of per turn risk factors. Use it to properly size the garrison in captured towns and new towns. Recently played a game where I applied it rigorously and had no flips so long as I followed the recommendations, even in towns right next to an enemy's capitol. One swallow does not make a summer....but I am pretty confident that the utility works as advertised.
Keiji
Warlord
Pre flight check:
Luxury has to go up to 20 percent, war weariness is starting to take effect me
thinks. Get Chivalry from the Portugese for Invention. Hurry buildings in Hastings
and Leicester. Switch Nottingham to marketplace and a few other builds to knights.
IBT
Ottomans raze Tugela. Zulu MI kills an MI at Zulu Iron.
950 AD (1)
Nothing major.
IBT
Renew our ROP and Dyes deal with Portugal for fur, silks and 14 gpt
Germans come asking for peace, I decide to take it so we can concentrate
on fighting just one war.
960 AD (2)
Still nothing major. Rush walls in Konigsberg.
IBT
2 MI and 2 impi's run up to Zulu Iron, we really need reinforcements there.
970 AD (3)
Just some more troop movement.
IBT
Zulu iron couragously fights of two Zulu MI, getting 1 promotion.
After that Zulu Iron decides to depose to the Zulu's
.
980 AD (4)
Upgrade two spears to muskets in Konigsberg.
Luxury down to 10 percent again.
Switch Warwick to Leonardo's workshop.
IBT
Just renewing some ROP's.
990 AD (5)
Get incense and 16g from the Ottomans for Ivory and Theology
IBT
Dutch complete Knight's Templar
1000 AD (6)
Just gathering our Invasion force.
Luxury back down to 10 percent.
IBT
The Russians come begging for peace, yeah right.
1010 AD (7)
That's it! I'm gonna keep the luxury on 20 percent, I'm tired of swapping
it back and forth.
1020 AD (8)
Decide to make peace with Russia after all, perhaps it will alleviate
some war weariness. For some reason Exeter and Richmond lose their
luxury supplies. One of them riots.
1030 AD (9)
Nothing much, except that we are running out of galleys to ferry
our troops across the deep blue.
IBT
Leonardo's workshop completes and starts our Golden Age!
1040 AD (10)
Just moving our troops some more. I haven't bothered to do a round of MM
yet though that should be done with our GA going now. I'll leave it up
to the next player.
Luxury has to go up to 20 percent, war weariness is starting to take effect me
thinks. Get Chivalry from the Portugese for Invention. Hurry buildings in Hastings
and Leicester. Switch Nottingham to marketplace and a few other builds to knights.
IBT
Ottomans raze Tugela. Zulu MI kills an MI at Zulu Iron.
950 AD (1)
Nothing major.
IBT
Renew our ROP and Dyes deal with Portugal for fur, silks and 14 gpt
Germans come asking for peace, I decide to take it so we can concentrate
on fighting just one war.
960 AD (2)
Still nothing major. Rush walls in Konigsberg.
IBT
2 MI and 2 impi's run up to Zulu Iron, we really need reinforcements there.
970 AD (3)
Just some more troop movement.
IBT
Zulu iron couragously fights of two Zulu MI, getting 1 promotion.
After that Zulu Iron decides to depose to the Zulu's
.980 AD (4)
Upgrade two spears to muskets in Konigsberg.
Luxury down to 10 percent again.
Switch Warwick to Leonardo's workshop.
IBT
Just renewing some ROP's.
990 AD (5)
Get incense and 16g from the Ottomans for Ivory and Theology
IBT
Dutch complete Knight's Templar
1000 AD (6)
Just gathering our Invasion force.
Luxury back down to 10 percent.
IBT
The Russians come begging for peace, yeah right.
1010 AD (7)
That's it! I'm gonna keep the luxury on 20 percent, I'm tired of swapping
it back and forth.
1020 AD (8)
Decide to make peace with Russia after all, perhaps it will alleviate
some war weariness. For some reason Exeter and Richmond lose their
luxury supplies. One of them riots.
1030 AD (9)
Nothing much, except that we are running out of galleys to ferry
our troops across the deep blue.
IBT
Leonardo's workshop completes and starts our Golden Age!
1040 AD (10)
Just moving our troops some more. I haven't bothered to do a round of MM
yet though that should be done with our GA going now. I'll leave it up
to the next player.
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
got it. I'll see what I can do with the cash
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
Pre-flight:
MM
rush settler in Cambridge
landings at Mpondo
1050Education from Germany for 60gpt
ITZulu + Ottomans sign peace
1060
Take + raze Mpondo. Found Portsmouth, Berwick. Rush temple in Exeter
1070
rush settlers in Yakaterinaburg. & Ngome
ITNetherlands and Zulu make nice
1080Rush harbor in Koningsberg
Take Ulundi
IT
end RoP with Monte
Dutch building Magellans
1090
nothing
1100
rush temple in Portsmouth
1110
nothing
IT
Ulundi deposes
1120
raze Zimbawbe
raze ulundi
IT
spain + germany make nice
portugal + zulu make nice
1130
raze swazi, found Bath
disband boats in Bath, rush temple
up lux to 30
IT
riot at Gloucester
Dutch ahead banking and astro
1140
raze ishwandala
peace with zulu for 2 gpt , Zulu Iron and Umfolozi
rush spear in Umfolozi
rush temple in Zulu Iron
rush colesseaums in koningsberg, exeter, portsmouth
lux to zero
1150
nothing
played 11 to get us back on track.
thoughts: Do a preflight MM as I got rushed, target pointy stick at the Dutch, steal astro from Dutch. RL with rugrats is being a PITA, so no screenie. spend money, build improvements, military is big enough til we gits better ships. Pleez set up for Dutch pointy stick.
MM
rush settler in Cambridge
landings at Mpondo
1050Education from Germany for 60gpt
ITZulu + Ottomans sign peace
1060
Take + raze Mpondo. Found Portsmouth, Berwick. Rush temple in Exeter
1070
rush settlers in Yakaterinaburg. & Ngome
ITNetherlands and Zulu make nice
1080Rush harbor in Koningsberg
Take Ulundi
IT
end RoP with Monte
Dutch building Magellans
1090
nothing
1100
rush temple in Portsmouth
1110
nothing
IT
Ulundi deposes
1120
raze Zimbawbe
raze ulundi
IT
spain + germany make nice
portugal + zulu make nice
1130
raze swazi, found Bath
disband boats in Bath, rush temple
up lux to 30
IT
riot at Gloucester
Dutch ahead banking and astro
1140
raze ishwandala
peace with zulu for 2 gpt , Zulu Iron and Umfolozi
rush spear in Umfolozi
rush temple in Zulu Iron
rush colesseaums in koningsberg, exeter, portsmouth
lux to zero
1150
nothing
played 11 to get us back on track.
thoughts: Do a preflight MM as I got rushed, target pointy stick at the Dutch, steal astro from Dutch. RL with rugrats is being a PITA, so no screenie. spend money, build improvements, military is big enough til we gits better ships. Pleez set up for Dutch pointy stick.
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
@ keiji - forgot to mention => NICE SET up !!!
Preturn- Buy Banking from Willie for a WM and 2352 gold. Then Astronomy from Germany for Banking and 630 gold. With the amount we make per turn we'll get it back soon.
IBT- We lose our supply of dyes from Portugal, I think. A bunch of cities riot, enough that I think it was time to raise luxuries.
1
The Mumbles founded.
IBT- Bulgars sack one of our cities.
2
Nothing
IBT- Germans and Dutch ally against Portugal, Willie declared on them.
3
Zzzzzzzz.....
IBT- Aztecs declare on Portugal. Almost every AI wants an RoP, I say no to all.
4
Yawn
IBT- Nothing
5
Buy Chemistry from Willie for 2821 gold.
IBT- None
6
I'm building a bunch of Muskets and Longbows, will throw in some trebs too, and putting them in Caravels to send to Germany.
IBT- Not much happened
7
N/A
IBT- Nothing
8
AK, I think a bunch of idiot parts suddenly appeared in front of me (I always wondered where you find them)! I just now noticed a bunch of galleys next to our island, empty, perfect for putting some troops in.
IBT- Golden Age ends. Make less now, got to spend less now, I suppose.
9
Some Galleys arrive near Germany.
IBT- None
10
Hardly anything
IBT- We lose our supply of dyes from Portugal, I think. A bunch of cities riot, enough that I think it was time to raise luxuries.
1
The Mumbles founded.
IBT- Bulgars sack one of our cities.
2
Nothing
IBT- Germans and Dutch ally against Portugal, Willie declared on them.
3
Zzzzzzzz.....
IBT- Aztecs declare on Portugal. Almost every AI wants an RoP, I say no to all.
4
Yawn
IBT- Nothing
5
Buy Chemistry from Willie for 2821 gold.
IBT- None
6
I'm building a bunch of Muskets and Longbows, will throw in some trebs too, and putting them in Caravels to send to Germany.
IBT- Not much happened
7
N/A
IBT- Nothing
8
AK, I think a bunch of idiot parts suddenly appeared in front of me (I always wondered where you find them)! I just now noticed a bunch of galleys next to our island, empty, perfect for putting some troops in.
IBT- Golden Age ends. Make less now, got to spend less now, I suppose.
9
Some Galleys arrive near Germany.
IBT- None
10
Hardly anything
Detlef Richter
The Pikeman
Got it. (10 character).
Keiji
Warlord
@AK - Thanks for the compliment, and may I say you also did a smashing job at crushing the Zulu.
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
One must search diligently and Confuscisly (new vocab, heard Mike Tyson say it) for them.
did you upgrade the galleys?
Detlef Richter
The Pikeman
I think we are a big party of idiots. I forgot to post my turns. 
Here we go:
1255: DoW Dutch
captured Intombe (108g)
1260: trade with Portugal: dyes+printing press <-> chemistry+contact of
ottomans
1265: nothing
1270: nothing
1275: captured Arnhem (16g)
1280: nothing
1285: nothing
1290: captured Maastrich (8g)
1295: nothing
1300: nothing
We have two good stacks, ready to do something. 1 at Konigsberg and one on caravels near Bristol. Our next goal should be Trondheim, with the possibility of peace with some goodies after capturing it.
Here we go:
1255: DoW Dutch
captured Intombe (108g)
1260: trade with Portugal: dyes+printing press <-> chemistry+contact of
ottomans
1265: nothing
1270: nothing
1275: captured Arnhem (16g)
1280: nothing
1285: nothing
1290: captured Maastrich (8g)
1295: nothing
1300: nothing
We have two good stacks, ready to do something. 1 at Konigsberg and one on caravels near Bristol. Our next goal should be Trondheim, with the possibility of peace with some goodies after capturing it.
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
D. Richter (pikeman) - just played
danz - up
Sir Clive - on deck
keiji -
AK -
viper275 -
danz - up
Sir Clive - on deck
keiji -
AK -
viper275 -
Keiji
Warlord
Nice work Detlef. I see that we have most of that island in our hands now. Perhaps after we capture Trondheim we could declare on the Aztec and take the entire island for ourselves. Now if only we would generate a leader, then we could rush the FP. Oh well, we'll just have to wait some longer.
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
In determininig our target, here are some questions to ask:
1. Are they ahead of us in tech?
2. Do they have a lux we don't?
3. How does our military compare qualitatively and quantitatively?
In JM1A, i based my decision on the next victim on the fact that one civ had 3 lux that we did not and were technogically less developed. More lux will really help us. Make owning all eight our long term goal?
I would tend to argue against a war with a culture rich civ unless we plan to eliminate them due the flip risks.
RE: The FP -how 'bout we build it on the home island and then after we have generated a leader, build the palace in another city? I'm not saying disband london for a verbotten palace flip, rather a rush build of a palace on a new island.
1. Are they ahead of us in tech?
2. Do they have a lux we don't?
3. How does our military compare qualitatively and quantitatively?
In JM1A, i based my decision on the next victim on the fact that one civ had 3 lux that we did not and were technogically less developed. More lux will really help us. Make owning all eight our long term goal?
I would tend to argue against a war with a culture rich civ unless we plan to eliminate them due the flip risks.
RE: The FP -how 'bout we build it on the home island and then after we have generated a leader, build the palace in another city? I'm not saying disband london for a verbotten palace flip, rather a rush build of a palace on a new island.
Admiral Kutzov said:
That makes a lot of sense. Let's see... the only civs worth mentioning are the Germans and the Dutch. The rest are just a midnight snack for us. They have some luxuries, but going to war will bring much more unhappiness and expense than any real benefit. The Germans and Dutch have nice wonders, but also have high culture, bringing the higher flip risk you mentioned.
To tell you the truth, we don't really need to go to war at all. We're bigger and stronger than anyone else. It boils down to how we want to win this game, not how to get out of any sort of trouble. If we want to go for a quick domination victory, we can start cleaning up the weaker AI's. That means a lot of small, low-risk wars against weaker enemies. If we want a space race victory, then we should probably try to bring peace to the world so the tech pace can pick up, otherwise we'll grow gray hair before we see the Modern Age.
Admiral Kutzov said:
That's an option. Of course, the new palace would have to be on a fairly large, well-developed island, or we would just be crippling our income and productivity for very little real benefit. I would only do this if we are going for a domination or conquest win and we've got one or two civs left.
Also, I've never liked the idea of moving the capital. Things like that should only happen if a country is losing a war and the government wants to save itself, or during a revolution. Moving the capital just to increase productivity in one corner of the empire is totally unrealistic. If that portion of the empire is really so important and so powerful, becoming the new power center, then guess what? It's probably going to secede. The old power center would never give up its power to another region voluntarily, and the new power center doesn't need the old guard riding into town to run the show. That's how the US was formed. The states figured out they could run the North American continent and didn't need the baggage of all the European wars. London stayed put. So did Lisbon. They have no say what happens in Brazil. And so on and so on...
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