Monarchist Cookbook Game II

[6-Star General]

You guys make me look pretty bad

 

[vale]

I like your round alot Iago. Very focused on the obvious domination victory condition. Nice round. I think it is a good contrast to my lazy round that got sidetracked on "pet" projects.

 

[IagoAlberto]

Thanks vale, I think the pressure of posting a game for the first time probably concentrated my mind on micromanagement more than I usually do.

Spoiler :

Overall, I like bleys' round if we are going to go peacefully into space or for diplo. If domination or conquest is prefered then vale's or mine. Really thats the beauty of the strong start vale got. We can go for any victory we want aside from maybe cultural at this point. I think that should be the next discussion, what victory do we want and which round will get us to said victory fastest.

 

[Diamondeye]

Thanks vale, I think the pressure of posting a game for the first time probably concentrated my mind on micromanagement more than I usually do.

Spoiler :

Overall, I like bleys' round if we are going to go peacefully into space or for diplo. If domination or conquest is prefered then vale's or mine. Really thats the beauty of the strong start vale got. We can go for any victory we want aside from maybe cultural at this point. I think that should be the next discussion, what victory do we want and which round will get us to said victory fastest.

Spoiler :

The problem about both yours and Bleys' saves (despite both of them being good!), is that you are buddhists. This will make it harder to go diplo and even just playing peacefully. I have to agree that many saves are better than mine for an "early" war, but for diplo or space, I think I am doing rather well (I have a GP for a GA up so that we can convert to Hindu and get two AIs to friendly). This plus in diplo could also be used to war (have them DoW on Louis), either for gains in our own war or set them back while we go to space.

 

[futurehermit]

Hi guys, sorry I haven't been able to play this round. My grandmother was put in the hospital this week and I've been snowed under with work catching up from my 2 weeks off. Next week I can probably get back into things

 

[IagoAlberto]

Posted By Diamondeye

Spoiler :

The problem about both yours and Bleys' saves (despite both of them being good!), is that you are buddhists. This will make it harder to go diplo and even just playing peacefully. I have to agree that many saves are better than mine for an "early" war, but for diplo or space, I think I am doing rather well (I have a GP for a GA up so that we can convert to Hindu and get two AIs to friendly). This plus in diplo could also be used to war (have them DoW on Louis), either for gains in our own war or set them back while we go to space.

Spoiler :

I agree that my save will certainly make it difficult for a peacful diplo win and will make a peaceful space win harder. Although in my save I do have both Qin and Wang pleased by a razor thin margin because of shared civics and trading bonuses. Since I'm kinda new to this series I'm not sure if the group will take the save with the most flexibility for achieving any victory condition or the one which will win the fastest given a particular method. If its the former then yours would likely be the best at this point. If its the latter then another save might get us there faster.

 

[Bleys]

Screw diplo, let em all eat cake, I say. This isnt a game where we can even be mildly threatened by an AI. My ONLY diplomatic concern is the AP and I plan to take that city pretty quickly.

 

[IagoAlberto]

Spoiler :

I agree Bleys, this game just screamed DOMINATION (or conquest if you like mm) to me when I opened it. I think domination is the best option by far for a quick victory. But I will defer to the other players with more experience than myself.

 

[futurehermit]

After the start we had I don't think it makes sense at all to sit back and tech toward a space or diplo win Domination ftw

 

[Diamondeye]

Conquest > Domination imo.

I think grabbing steel off lib is a solid shot (grabbing Chem for ships), then building ships (from the moment we get chem), building cannons (from Steel) and the filling in with muskets/rifles and go berserk. Question is, what save is best for this and which AIs should be going down (I am thinking Louis and Pacal first, but thats because theyre my buds in my save).

 

[r_rolo1]

Sorry for taking this long ( RL + new patch... ) and the undetailed report below.

Spoiler :

Uneventfull turnset. The empire need rebuilding and rebuilt it was. Besides a Louis Pacal small war, nothing eventful happened.

In fact 1 picture says it all about both my turnset and about my plans for thr future:

Spoiler :

Around here, we have a say that states that for a good listener half word is enough.....

 

[Bleys]

I guess I dont see the attraction of going for Steel from Lib instead of Rifling. Once we get Nationalism, our huge, fast-growing cities will be able to draft an army so unstoppable that the AIs will roll over like puppy dogs. Trebs are more than enough to soften up the AIs. Heck, most cities wont even need a collateral damage bombing before taking them out with Rifles. I usually take Nationalism off Lib (because I am rarely this far ahead in my own games) and bee-line Rifling to draft. Steel comes after that, I rarely have cannons before rifles. Is there something I am missing here?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I guess I dont see the attraction of going for Steel from Lib instead of Rifling. Once we get Nationalism, our huge, fast-growing cities will be able to draft an army so unstoppable that the AIs will roll over like puppy dogs. Trebs are more than enough to soften up the AIs. Heck, most cities wont even need a collateral damage bombing before taking them out with Rifles. I usually take Nationalism off Lib (because I am rarely this far ahead in my own games) and bee-line Rifling to draft. Steel comes after that, I rarely have cannons before rifles. Is there something I am missing here?

Cannons (and shortly thereafter grenadiers) are pretty powerful in their own right. To an extent I'd recommend picking based on whether you have more food/low production (draft) or some good hammer cities (cannons).

Steel line has a number of advantages:

- Frigates can bombard defenses against coastal cities, eliminating the need for land-based siege or spies. You'll often want them anyway, to protect your galleons.
- Cannons are solid attackers - having access to CR without the need of upgrading from older units
- Grenadiers are pretty strong (when combined with pikes to deal with knights and cuirassers later) against the medieval garbage stuff, and continue to shine on offense even after the AI gets rifling. In fact, combined with cannons they're viable offensive units clean until infantry or machine guns show up, and that can be a while. Note: pre-rifling, you can continue to make maces and give them CR. These can upgrade to grenadiers and allows grenadiers to TOAST CG rifles, when the AI fields those. Most of the grenadiers won't need this promo, but if anticipating going against some tougher defenders I'd recommend taking a couple to bust top defenders.
- On land maps, knights can't flank cannons.

To be honest, I strongly favor the bottom path in any game where I attack overseas, and it's more situation when I don't have to (spies and drafting are easier to manage and more direct/speedy). A lot of people shun amphibious or semi-amphibious (land and hit one turn later, then load on the 3rd turn) attacks, but the former are utterly devastating to the tactically weak AI. We won't have easy access to amphibious troops with pericles, so we'd probably have to do the land and ship siege while doing so approach, which isn't quite as strong. Nevertheless, it's faster than land siege in many cases, especially if the target has a lot of coastal cities.

 

[r_rolo1]

In sipre of 3.17 changes ( we'll need to unload our cannons ), the fact this is a very ragged map definitely favors Steel line, because we'll definitely need a navy.....

 

[Diamondeye]

... A note on the patches: 3.17 saves are not compatible with the 3.13 game, so either we all patch (I'd prefer not), or only the 3.13 saves are eligable for best ball status... what do you people think?

Personally, I think we should play this game to an end with .13 and then let the next game be .17.

BTW, Rolo, since you have already patched, can you tell us, is it worth it? My HD is very full already and I doubt I have room for the patch (and certainly not a dual install), so, does it do anything for the game? And is BUG compatible with it?

 

[r_rolo1]

BUG 2.30 is fully compatible with 3.17.... Older versions are not, due to a change on 2 XML files in 3.17 ( if you have older versions of BUG you need to download this file and put in costumassets ... this also applies if you installed BUG 2.30 over older version of BUG ( in here you can also delete for CIV4GameText_BTS.xml from the costumassets of My games section ( since it is not needed anymore ) )

Well, in terms of gameplay, 3.17 works pretty similar to Bh 1.12 , with the main diferences being the increased naval barb spawn ( it is quite noticeable ) . I still have to test some of the newer features ( no time for GW .... and no barb event so far ). But it still has some big issues ( they introduced a bug in barrage that makes it useless to units with no native coll damage ( like tanks ,MA , battleships .... ) )

I think it is worth the download ( besides the half baked mesoamerican mod , that is a clear waste of MB as it is )

 

[Diamondeye]

@OTAKUjbski / Bleys: We need a save chosen asap. It is saturday now.

 

[Bleys]

Well, I am updated to 3.17, but my save is 3.13. We need to make a firm decision on this, I prefer to play 3.17 myself.

I havent had a chance to look at some of the saves though, I will try to do that this afternoon while the footie match is on. I am already leaning toward rolo, just because I know his style, even without a write-up, he already has Steel, and thats a big plus. I admit I havent looked at any saves other than vales, Iago and 6-star. Grabbing the others now though, been a busy week.

Diamond, you only played to 1200, though. Did you want to play to 1300 for a better comparison?

 

[Diamondeye]

... I played to 1200 to leave options of lib and my 2 GPs (either GA or bulbs or settling) open. 1200 Just fitted perfect for this. My save and game is 3.13 atm. I need to clean up my HD if I am to patch to 3.17.

EDIT: Patching to 3.17 atm

 

[Bleys]

OK I guess we should get on with it at this point. After checking all the saves, I definitely have a firm winner:

IAGO!

Well done mate. 4 turns from Rifling, took Steel from Lib, has Nationalism already as well, has some military build up. He also has Oxford built, HE built, he has his Great Prophet farm close to shrining our Holy City, very solid indeed. He played a couple extra turns, but its not significant. The biggest plus for me is Taj is open, Rifling is nearly done, and his populations are huge. This save can easily take out any of the AIs pretty quickly, or just calmly tech into space with little competition.

The next round is scheduled to go until 1600 AD, and I have the feeling it will be the last "submitted" round. Round 5 will, once again, be "til Victory", by the look of it.

Also, I will be playing in 3.17, I see no compelling reason not to patch. However, Iagos save is in 3.13, so if you dont wish to update now, you can still play this round.