Monarchist Cookbook Game IV, Mao Zedong of China!

[Winston Hughes]

@tycoonist

Spoiler :

I'm yet to be convinced of that.

Will it be a monster in the long-term? Undoubtedly.

But that's not the only consideration when sending out your first few settlers. There are all kinds of things that can make a spot attractive: blocking an AI, securing a key resource, getting up and running quickly, needing fewer early worker turns, defensive or offensive benefits, leaving room for other cities, etc, etc.

I can certainly see where you and oyzar are coming from, but, from what I've seen so far (on the map and in the thread), I don't think it's quite as clear cut as your post suggests.

 

[tycoonist]

@ winston hughes

Spoiler :

@tycoonist
I'm yet to be convinced of that.

Will it be a monster in the long-term? Undoubtedly.

But that's not the only consideration when sending out your first few settlers. There are all kinds of things that can make a spot attractive: blocking an AI, securing a key resource, getting up and running quickly, needing fewer early worker turns, defensive or offensive benefits, leaving room for other cities, etc, etc.

I can certainly see where you and oyzar are coming from, but, from what I've seen so far (on the map and in the thread), I don't think it's quite as clear cut as your post suggests.

in general, you'd be right. there often isn't no best city spot. but in this case, settling on the sugar gives an incredible city, and fits in well with dotmaps.

 

[oyzar]

@ winston

Spoiler :

The only real reason to settle where you did is to get marble faster, marble isn't going to matter that much if you build the oracle or not... It does give up the extreme power of burrecracy(as there aren't really any very good alternative with your spot there), and as such you'll probably lose massive power in the mid game...

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I always "overdo" military. I've been roasted by barbs so many times that I too often go heavy fogbust. It's REALLY annoying to have a barb archer spawn somewhere, bypass limited, close-to-city fogbusting, and then kill an archer that attacks it en route to pillaging a tile or two. This happens to me more often than it should (in fact, in my first turnset I lost one of my protective archers on defense to an archer despite being in jungle).

The constant annoyance of barbs leads me to "over fogbust" I guess in games where they are left on. If I ever get into the HOF games, I'll absolutely just play with them off since that's allowed. However, for this game I wanted to keep them from being an issue and it seems this costs me considerably when comparing my save to others.

I guess I just don't like taking a "risk" (aka 10% chance or higher) of having barbs screw me by pillaging improvements or even chance-capturing a city and setting me REALLY far back. Maybe I'm just unlucky.

 

[Winston Hughes]

@oyzar

Spoiler :

By then, I would hope to have at least one or two AI capitals under my control, reducing the importance of the capital. Bear in mind that this is Monarch, so the AI rarely sets a blistering tech rate - a dedicated beeline can almost always net you a half-decent advantage over a rival, even with only a mediocre economy. Actually getting the units built in time to make full use of your advantage is often the trickier part.

And building my gems city on that site was not just about the Marble. It will also allow another very tasty city to the west. I wouldn't anticipate either of them growing large enough to need much more than half of those tiles by the mid-game, given that I'll need my troops in the field, rather than keeping order in the cities.

None of this is to say that you're wrong about the best site for the gems city, though. Settling on the sugar may well be the strongest move overall. I'm just not convinced that it's so far out in front that all other choices are beyond consideration.

 

[oyzar]

I didn't face any archers.. could it be that researching archery early also means you meet archers earlier?

 

[Rusten]

Spoiler :

I went with a worker first. It’s very difficult to beat an irrigated corn tile early on and given the starting techs I would have BW ready to chop forests for work boats afterwards (we’ve got a lot of forests)--worker is better here. I’ll get a little less starting commerce, but much more production. I still got my first work boat out ~3100 BC.

I proceeded to whip a worker 2850 BC for more forest chopping.
I came across an amazing city site which is clearly going to be my capital as soon as possible. I decided to settle this right away to start maturing cottages in time for bureaucracy.

Sent both of my workers down there to speed things up.

I had no idea there's this few barbs on monarch difficulty—is it a special map or is this common? I’ve only met like 2 barbarian archers and almost no animals. Teching archery was a waste here tbh.

Settle my 3rd city—this will be a good city for the GT (Beijing will get the NE). I had a fishing boat ready for the coastal fish.

I decided to stop 1 turn before schedule to highlight some different options. Here’s a look at my cities:

Spoiler :

Beijing:

Going to pop my first GS here for an academy in Shanghai (or settle). GPP is incredibly effective for your first GS so it’s best to get started right away.


Shanghai:

This city will grow into unhappiness the next turn with some turns left until whipping wears off. There are 3 main options;
- 2-pop whip the barracks that’s queued up.
- accept the unhappiness for 4-5 turns and then 2-pop whip the library (40/135 hammers).
- start working on a settler temporarily.

I’ve started roading towards the gems (and Alex for trade routes). Whipping the library is the best option imo as I need the culture for the gems.


Guangzhou:

Unhappiness is about to wear off. This city will either get a settler on size 3 (hill being mined) or grow to size 4 in order to whip the library. I’m leaning towards a settler in order to settle wherever iron pops up.

Going archery set IW back somewhat—but at least I’ve barb safety and I haven’t needed it yet anyway. I’ll start clearing the jungle (gems) while waiting for Shanghai’s borders to pop to save turns. There’s a barbarian city to the east, but fortunately it is not on a hill so capturing it shouldn’t be any trouble.

 

[tycoonist]

what map script was this btw?

 

[r_rolo1]

Planet generator

 

[r_rolo1]

Just to adress some doubts: games will not be disqualified because of following or not the OP naming convention........ that is only to lessen work to the ppl that want to analize the game......

 

[Bolddrengen]

Spoiler :

Okey, you haven't seen me on the forums before with a good reason, will be my first try ever on anything like this, but I decided I would give it at, please feedback is welcome on how I'm doing the this recap thingy oh... and sorry about my not so perfect English.

Tech wise I went BW->Fishing->The Wheel->Myst->Pottery->Ironworking... Upcoming will be AH-> then Writing. After that only time will tell.
I was thinking about archery, but after all my first warrior didn't see many animals and I kinda putted my hope up for only a few barbs would be around.

Okey, decided an Worker would be good for a start, then he could (chop?) cut some trees for my upcoming workboat. After that I popped a warrior, and then my capital pretty much turned into a worker/fishboat/settler pumping base.

I met my first opponet Wang Kon in 3175 BC. And in a long time I didn't seen anything but him, so I decided I would take it easy with def, (much like with the barbs) Only at the last turns I met Victory and Alexander, think it was 1625 BC or something like that. Same turn

I did scout in a circle like thingy around my capital, and we have a pretty neat sorrundings in my oppion. My first city went down in the wheat, and Iron spot Pretty nice surprice! The 3ed settler went to the north and went for a fish town, had fishing boat waiting for the city. The soon to come town will be placed in the lovely gem spot, and with IW up I can soon get som luxuri resourses (I can't spell and I know it )

After all I think the few year of my empire went good overall. A bit minus is my low military and my lacking knowladge of the map. And my playing abit sloppy in the end, I did let Biejing grow one too much in the end I don't even know where my opponets are placed. Although I just saw when taking closer look at the screen, the Alexander is in the buttom south of me.

Here in the is a screenshot of my empire, and sorry if it not working, first report ever I promise I will get better ehrm kay ?
Ohh and what's the best way of uploading screenshots ? kinda hate it when you have to upload it on another side, then copy a link, is there a faster way or do I just have to get used to it ?

 

[pawelo]

Can I still join Mr King Among Kings Rolo ?

Seems a fun concept to jump and mess around a bit

Been away for far too long...

 

[oyzar]

Can I still join Mr King Among Kings Rolo ?

Seems a fun concept to jump and mess around a bit

Been away for far too long...

Pretty sure this game is open for pretty much anyone so just play ahead...

 

[Bleys]

Absolutely still open. We "try" to get all submissions in by Tuesday, and choose saves Fridays, but this first round is pretty flexible.

 

[r_rolo1]

OFC this is still open And pawelo is always welcomed ( we need a clown... er, another good player )

 

[namliaM]

Spoiler :

I researched
Fishing
BW
Sailing (Lighthouse and Great lighthouse)
Misticism (at the time I was thinking monuments, but should have skipped this)
Masonry (Great Lighthouse)
Wheel
Pottery (Cottages)
Writing (OBs and traderoutes, if I can find a coastal route to an AI)
Iron Working (14 turns left)

Builds
Warrior (timed to finish with Fishing)
Worboat (max hammers)
Workboat (max food, to grow to almost size 3 and whip this one)
These next builds I am not sure about the order
Workboat
Warrior
Lighthouse
2 Workers
2 Settlers

I whipped the wokers by putting one turn production in them (19 hammers) and whipping them to generate overflow for the hammer requirements, workboat/warrior/Lighthouse/Great Lighthouse. The settlers while sitting at the pop limit waiting for the whip to go away before growing an whipping again.

Events
I happened to strole by Alex' capitol and spotted a worker, considered it for a while and stole his worker.
Alex didnt do anything we made peace and Alex ended up building StoneHedge.

One city was founded at the Silk spot and another is about to be founded in 2 turns among the FPs/Gems.

Great lighthouse will grant +2 traderoutes for +2 commerce each in 2 cities = +8 commerce, Once the fish city is settled and the Iron position known.... I intend to settle atleast 4 more coastal cities.

 

[pawelo]

Nice map generator

Spoiler :

Love these maps where all you have to do is chop, chop and chop

Well, we could have had worse then Mao, with his Exp trait health is less an issue (= early jungle settling) and workers are out faster (though I loved the +50% faster in Warlords )

Settle in place, as usual with this kind of starts. Well, my rule is - if the food is good then you may as well settle in place.

Fishing first (of course), while building Warrior. I anal-managed the city to get the warrior and Fishing at the same turn (9) , and went WBoat afterwards.

Not usual as start, but as we have nothing (basically, there is this corn tile) to do before BW, then WBoats are more important.

I met Alex to the south, not that far, which determined my decisions on initial settling plans

Fishing - BWorking

I got BW on turn 31 and whipped the boat on the next one.
With overflow I got another warrior to scout and went for a worker as soon as Beijing reached pop2.

I started IW - to get the CE asap on all these lovely river/grasslands under the ugly jungle

I also met Wang the Buddhist, but still couldn't find out where he came from.

After the first worker I went after a second one. The aim is to have the jungle cleared prior to settling one of the foreseen spots...

One chop went to the 1st Settler, then switched back to the worker.
IW finished on the same turn as the worker, and I started back the Settler.

IW - Mysticism (for Henge - long shot, anyway for Monuments)

Two cities planned between Beijing and Athens.

Mysticism - Wheel

The Settler finished on turn 70, I started the Henge for either the wonder (cool these free border pops ) or ca$h.

On turn 76, my heart stopped beating while a slightly wounder warrior had to protect (on jungle, across river ) a worker and a settler from the panther. He survived and Shanghai saw the sunlight :



The worker started farming one FP to get the pop2 faster in Shanghai for the border pop and the best ancient metal around.

Met Vicky, far far to the south west btw, on the same turn. She seems to be Alex's worst enemy - cool.

Henge built far away on turn 79, sending 47 gold in the pockets, which is good for initial expansion. No huts means you haev to find other ways to get the cash in

Wheel - Pottery - AH

Got another settler out in Beijing after sending the Beijing-dedicated worker to the 2nd spot south. The whip overflow in Beijing went into the third worker.

In turn 97, finally settled this beauty:



So, in 1500 BC things look pretty well.
Three prime cities, three workers (well, almost, third one due in 3 turns).

Action points (if my save is voted ) :
- more workers - more improvements in new cities
- strenghen the defence - Alex border is near... Very near...
- one more blocking city
- Sailing & Masonry for the GLight (? if not too late)

China, 1500 BC:



The hard line is the predicted China border. Still it can be expanded - but beware of crushing the eco...

And the three cities:





EDIT From your games I see I missed the right spot for this city - the top-of-the-hill-accross-the-river-from-Alex 1E location... My apologies...

Time to see how you managed it

 

[Siran]

Round 1

Spoiler :

4000 BC Bejing has been founded
First tech Fishing, First unit worker
3800 BC You have discovered Fishing
Change unit to workboat and change back before decay sets in. Get worker out with Bronze Working.
3225 BC You have discovered Bronze Working
Change to slavery. Chop my first workboat.
2750 BC You have discovered Animal Husbandry
2500 BC You have discovered The Wheel
2325 BC Shanghai is founded
Took a bit of a chance here in sending that settler out without an escort. Worked beautifully.
1900 BC Guangzhou is founded
1750 BC You have discovered Iron Working
I have another settler about to be finished in Bejing. Pottery is two turns away.
I made contact with Korea and England and I found Alexander.

 

[oyzar]

@ sirian and pawelo

Spoiler :

Both of you guys have very small cities, you either whip too much or don't grow the cities enough to start with. If you are whipping something before you have a granary odds are it is better to not whip(except with the first worker or if you have some good reason, like the library in my GS city). Building workers or settlers in small cities is very ineffecient. Better to grow bigger and have the already big cities produce the workers/settlers... A settler cost 150 hammers while a pop only cost 30-40 food(you can get 4-5 pop's for a settler, so most of the time it is best to get some pop first). Also sirian i am curious why you chose to research AH so early, it have no application before IW anyways on this map, and there are loads of other important techs needed.

@ namliam

Spoiler :

building a wonder with only 2 cities seems a bit over the top, cities will pay off way more at this stage! You wait waaay too long with the first worker, it should probably be one of your first two builds(personally i built it second whipping a pop for it and building a workboat with the overflow). Similarly, you don't really need to build more than 2 workboats on this map(for your capital anyways, you'll need another one for the double fish city at least) and building a lighthouse before you get going with spamming settlers and workers seems rather slow... Your dotmap also needs quite some work...

 

[r_rolo1]

Well, as it is already atleast Wednesday everywhere in the world ( in some places it is already Thrusday )., I declare that from now on to atleast friday spoilers can be dropped and free discussion is allowed

Also , the voting season is already open ... Feel free to send votes from now on