I suppose it wouldn't hurt to give the 'best-ball' format a try again. I really do like the idea of having the chance to learn how to make a come back from bad situations--but I do have to agree that it may be less exciting for people when the competition is gone.
Monarchist Cookbook Game IV, Mao Zedong of China!
- Thread starter r_rolo1
- Start date
r_rolo1
King of myself
Given the votes until now, if we adopted the best save strat, the chosen game would be Bleys one, that is almost won ( as well as mine, at least IMHO , in spite of Bleys having a more solid position ).....
Bleys
Deity
Going back to best-save without changing the difficulty level just leaves us where we have been. Heck, even this game, taking a "less than optimal" save, both rolo and I managed to cripple Alex badly enough to make both of those saves pretty much "over", just because of all the land we now have, and the 2nd capitol with 2 powerful wonders in it.
I think we should move to Emp, keep the name the same. Emp + best ball = "easy as Monarch", sort of. It will have educational value for Monarch level players, offer them a challenge where, if they do poorly one round, they wont lose the game, because the next save will not be "lost". Of course, we could still end up with similar problems, high level players playing exceptional rounds, the game being won very early, etc etc. But overall, we should get a few rounds deep at Emp, I dont think we will ever be much past the 2nd round at Monarch.
The Imm game doesnt have nearly as much action as I thought it would, though, which could be mostly folks being afraid of the level, so maybe an Emp game is where we find some more players.
I think we should move to Emp, keep the name the same. Emp + best ball = "easy as Monarch", sort of. It will have educational value for Monarch level players, offer them a challenge where, if they do poorly one round, they wont lose the game, because the next save will not be "lost". Of course, we could still end up with similar problems, high level players playing exceptional rounds, the game being won very early, etc etc. But overall, we should get a few rounds deep at Emp, I dont think we will ever be much past the 2nd round at Monarch.
The Imm game doesnt have nearly as much action as I thought it would, though, which could be mostly folks being afraid of the level, so maybe an Emp game is where we find some more players.
r_rolo1
King of myself
I kind of agree, but how about this round?
RichardMNixon
Czar
To finish out this game, maybe choose the save with the median number of votes instead of the lowest number? Then you won't get the worst, you won't get a godlike save, and won't have to debate about which saves are so good they have to be eliminated.
Diamondeye
So Happy I Could Die
That was what I was thinking RicherdMNixon. And I agree on going back to Monarch won't help a thing, but that is basically because some (or all) of the roster players are above Monarch level. We are not playing Monarch difficulty saves, we are playing the worst monarch saves and those are basically emp in difficulty - in order to challenge the above-monarch players. I believe I speak for many Monarch players when I say that is not what we want. So yes perhaps a Emp game is an idea.
KingMorgan
Deity
Just to echo Bleys and Diam, i would prefer an Emp game.
I am happy to blast through Monarch level whatever the challegenes. however i'm struggling early on Emp level. From my perspetive there is a bigger difference in the jump from Mon>Emp compared to Prince > Mon.
I also find i have no enthusiasm for difficult saves, especially saves that do not fit my play style. I do realise that players from higher levels will 'win' the game early, however i would like to see these saves as they demonstrate an optimal path and should give players at a lower level some ideas and strategys to improve.
If you are a low level player playing a sub save, it's bloody hard work, i'm sure alot of people lose interest and enthusiasm when they see how easy a Deity level player suceeds at Monarch. The monarch player does not need to handicapped like the Deity level player.
I am happy to blast through Monarch level whatever the challegenes. however i'm struggling early on Emp level. From my perspetive there is a bigger difference in the jump from Mon>Emp compared to Prince > Mon.
I also find i have no enthusiasm for difficult saves, especially saves that do not fit my play style. I do realise that players from higher levels will 'win' the game early, however i would like to see these saves as they demonstrate an optimal path and should give players at a lower level some ideas and strategys to improve.
If you are a low level player playing a sub save, it's bloody hard work, i'm sure alot of people lose interest and enthusiasm when they see how easy a Deity level player suceeds at Monarch. The monarch player does not need to handicapped like the Deity level player.
IPEX-731BA5DD06
Deity
sorry I didn't play a round 2 version game, I couldn't find the save to play from initially, or I've just lost interest in Civ the past week or 2. Well, RL, I have the finals for our Football version going, and my teams 2nd...so...
that's the way it goes....
I promise to try round 3 if it gets up.
that's the way it goes....I promise to try round 3 if it gets up.
Negator_UK
King
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2007
- Messages
- 758
I too had a bit of a bad week regarding this forum last week, a vicious combination of completing my tax return, starting a game of Jagged Alliance 2 and not making a good job of round two of this game either - but will be back online shortly
I guess I would be willing to give Emperor a try...
It seems maybe I am the only struggling monarch player who posts right now. But, what I need to learn (how to run a military campaign) I can do at either monarch or emperor level. I probably won't submit saves anymore though, my saves are already sub-par at Monarch level, and I would hate to see them at Emperor...
It seems maybe I am the only struggling monarch player who posts right now. But, what I need to learn (how to run a military campaign) I can do at either monarch or emperor level. I probably won't submit saves anymore though, my saves are already sub-par at Monarch level, and I would hate to see them at Emperor...
r_rolo1
King of myself
So, I think it is better to give a chance to the best ball system after alll and finish the game.....
Next round will be with Bleys save, until 1100 AD
Next round will be with Bleys save, until 1100 AD
Negator_UK
King
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2007
- Messages
- 758
The problem might be solved by having the "ringers" speak up and state they are above-monarch capability. They could still play and their comments would be certainly welcomed by the likes of me. But selecting their saves makes no sense in a "monarchist cookbook" format, since the implication is that the game is for monarch level players.
I hope you guys don't pile into the Nobles game (do you ??)
I too would be game for emperor for a laugh, but I really am no better than monarch right now. I do thinks its a shame we can't control this issue without having to either close down monarchist cookbook or exclude the good players who can give us good advice.
RichardMNixon
Czar
I'm doing alright in my first Emperor game, but I'm also Mansa Musa on Tectonics Pangaea with handpicked opponents who like trading techs (plus Monty, he never shows up in my games, so I feel like I'm missing out on something). If something like this game was on emperor it would be another matter entirely. Maybe we could try an easy emperor game instead of hard monarch game and use the best ball?
I'll try to post a new save for this sometime tomorrow.
I'll try to post a new save for this sometime tomorrow.
Negator_UK
King
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2007
- Messages
- 758
I think that clever schemes will just confuse everyone.
IMHO we should pitch the event at the play level - ie play with the Civ4 leveling system rather than around it.
How about this ? ... the best save to proceed with would be a playable save from someone who is average for the level being played (Monarch in our case). Someone playing up to this level (myself a bit) would just try their best to get their save selected.
Those playing down to this level could compete as hard as they liked and try all sorts of funky stuff without worrying about losing their chance for selection, cos they already know they won't be selected.
Better still we could pick the "probable next save" before its played and only drop that save if that players game goes particularly pear-shaped that round (whereupon we just pick another). This will will reduce all that nervous chat regarding voting and allow everyone more time to chat about the game strategy which would be a vast improvement.
Some folks are here to compete, some to learn, we need a way to allow both to flourish.
Hmm that looks like a clever scheme to me...
IMHO we should pitch the event at the play level - ie play with the Civ4 leveling system rather than around it.
How about this ? ... the best save to proceed with would be a playable save from someone who is average for the level being played (Monarch in our case). Someone playing up to this level (myself a bit) would just try their best to get their save selected.
Those playing down to this level could compete as hard as they liked and try all sorts of funky stuff without worrying about losing their chance for selection, cos they already know they won't be selected.
Better still we could pick the "probable next save" before its played and only drop that save if that players game goes particularly pear-shaped that round (whereupon we just pick another). This will will reduce all that nervous chat regarding voting and allow everyone more time to chat about the game strategy which would be a vast improvement.
Some folks are here to compete, some to learn, we need a way to allow both to flourish.
Hmm that looks like a clever scheme to me...
I like the idea of having the experienced players remove there saves from the runnings in the best-ball system. But, I would still like to see them playing the round so that we less experienced players can compare our play to theirs.
But this will only work if we have a pretty good number of monarch players who will be submitting saves.... and I am not really sure how many of those there are.
I would also really like to see more discussion of strategy and some constructive criticism from the more experienced players.
But this will only work if we have a pretty good number of monarch players who will be submitting saves.... and I am not really sure how many of those there are.
I would also really like to see more discussion of strategy and some constructive criticism from the more experienced players.
KingMorgan
Deity
I may eat my words slightly. Bleys Rd2 save makes this next round very easy.
Sorry the write up is a little short, i'm running late as i'm off out.
View attachment MC IV Rd 3 KingMorgan AD-1100.CivBeyondSwordSave
Sorry the write up is a little short, i'm running late as i'm off out.
Spoiler :
View attachment MC IV Rd 3 KingMorgan AD-1100.CivBeyondSwordSave
Bleys
Deity
I was actually going to remove my save from the running, because I am not convinced that I didnt subliminely found the Iron city before discovering Iron. However, when I saw there were only 3 saves entered (I think), I didnt pull mine, thinking it was "best or close to it" so it wouldnt be chosen, a "middle" one would. I was actually hoping that 3 or 4 others would enter saves, so we could keep the spirit of choosing a "playable but not best" one alive.
I am actually looking forward to playing though, because even though we have a "winning position", it still requires some execution. With only 3 AIs met, there are 3 others out there, and they COULD be all buddy-buddy and out-tech and beat the crap out of us. Also, this game would be VERY easy to have an economic meltdown, with so much strong land to settle.
This is a hard concept series to run. Even with all Monarch players, it could be a runaway at the 2nd round because Monarch is a solid level of skill and one of us is BOUND to play a very strong round each turnset. But I will freely admit that I am Emperor level at this point, its all I play offline, and I am getting a very strong "feel" for it, which just makes Monarch seem easier.
I am actually looking forward to playing though, because even though we have a "winning position", it still requires some execution. With only 3 AIs met, there are 3 others out there, and they COULD be all buddy-buddy and out-tech and beat the crap out of us. Also, this game would be VERY easy to have an economic meltdown, with so much strong land to settle.
This is a hard concept series to run. Even with all Monarch players, it could be a runaway at the 2nd round because Monarch is a solid level of skill and one of us is BOUND to play a very strong round each turnset. But I will freely admit that I am Emperor level at this point, its all I play offline, and I am getting a very strong "feel" for it, which just makes Monarch seem easier.
Diamondeye
So Happy I Could Die
I've removed my BUG so I will have to take notes when playing. If playing. I dont suspect I can play until wednesday this week.
RichardMNixon
Czar
My tech path was Cal, MC, Machinery, CoL, Civil Service, Music (got free artist, figured I'd use him for golden age to switch into caste and bureaucracy while researching theo, then switch to theocracy before the golden age ends). Also traded for construction and monotheism (tried stealing mono, but my spy was caught on the first turn in the city). I think I still have plenty of time to win the lib race.
In no particular order: I founded the horse city, got gold for mids, built the parthenon, moved capital to Shanghai.
I'm building up a stack of cats and CKN's on Alex's border currently, though it occurs to me now that attacking Wang Kon might also be a valid choice as Alex is not going anywhere tech wise and would be easy pickin's with rifles.
Ended a round early because I just popped the GArtist and didn't want to compare my golden age economy to someone's normal econ. I also have a GProphet.
Screenshots:
In no particular order: I founded the horse city, got gold for mids, built the parthenon, moved capital to Shanghai.
I'm building up a stack of cats and CKN's on Alex's border currently, though it occurs to me now that attacking Wang Kon might also be a valid choice as Alex is not going anywhere tech wise and would be easy pickin's with rifles.
Ended a round early because I just popped the GArtist and didn't want to compare my golden age economy to someone's normal econ. I also have a GProphet.
Screenshots:
Spoiler :
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