futurehermit
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2006
- Messages
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So, basically, waiting for him to put a shrine down is probably a doubtful proposition at best...
Saladin's trade routes are worth 1cpt more than your own internal routes (currently 2cpt for ToA Berlins).However, war with Saladin will strike a heavy blow to our economy, since we're relying on him and the civs beyond him for our lucrative trade routes.
If you want to do a mace + cats war vs archers + swords, without doubt. The AP is another issue... I would not be surprised that Saladin would be pretty near of starting it.So, basically, waiting for him to put a shrine down is probably a doubtful proposition at best...
The argument isn't about "the now or the later." Each approach makes trades.I could have skipped 2 of the forges and gotten 2 more settlers out. Or skipped the forges and barracks and gotten 3. What criteria are we making our decisions on, the now or the later?
Someone else pointed out that Saladin is no wonderhog. I doubt he'll build it.The AP is another issue... I would not be surprised that Saladin would be pretty near of starting it.
I just hope he doesn't bulb Theology for it. He won't, but still....his research rate sucks.He's not a wonder hog ,but clearly has a spot for religious wonders in his heart. I bet he'll try the AP...
Forges add 11 hammers per whipped citizen. Also, what there is to build (according to my plans, anyway) is Cats and Galleys (after a handful of Axes, til I got Maces). That was my thinking when I put the forges and barracks down, and teched Construction, military build up.You chose forges and production. My issue with it is that there isn't much to produce. Most of my cities are being built without the whip, and while forges would be a great help, only a handful (two, really) will see a significant return from a forge.
I won't argue that they don't.Forges + OR also add a HUGE boost to the production of Commerce buildings like Markets and such.
So, basically, waiting for him to put a shrine down is probably a doubtful proposition at best...
Saladin's trade routes are worth 1cpt more than your own internal routes (currently 2cpt for ToA Berlins).
Not exactly worth crying over.
I also don't believe anyone has trade routes with any other AI.
I don't agree with expanding around him. Distance costs will be crippling, essentially turning all those "free" Great Lighthouse cities into net losses when they're founded.
Most of those are internal. Only Berlin should have any foreign trade routes at this time.We all have at least 4 cities .. most 5, which means a loss of 5 cities * 4 traderoutes * -1 CPT = -20...
Trade route connections and actual trade routes are totally different things. The connection allows for resource trading and for trade routes to be established, but it does not guarantee the establishment of those routes.OTAKUjbski haswith Suleiman.
Bleys haswith João.
This is true, but we're not likely to engage in military expansion for another 1000 years. We've got a tech lead to pursue, and an army to build, including a flotilla to ferry our troops.Either we take a hit expanding militarily or via peaceful expansion ... either way, we're gonna take a hit.
You're concluding that the loss of the foreign trade route is the net loss, when you're not factoring in the replacement of that route with an internal route.futurehermit has 12 CPT from Saladin
Bleys has 22 CPT from Saladin and João
OTAKUjbski has 31 CPT from Saladin and Suleiman
Vale has 19 CPT from Saladin
See, this is another case of instant gratification without considering what lies in the future. By the time we are ready to DoW on Sal, I am pretty sure many of us will have explored more and found other cities to trade with in short order, and probably founded at least 1 other city on the last island to the South, or even one on the island past Sal. I guess I just dont see the problem losing some TRs for a few turns, only to have them replaced by other TRs in the not-so-distant-future. War hurts the economy in many ways, we all know that.Looking back on it now, many of you don't even have a city setup which would enable four 2cpt internal trade routes per city. Only my game offers that, and then only because I considered it a priority to an extent.
How is that instant gratification?See, this is another case of instant gratification without considering what lies in the future.
... maybe it is a good time to start thinking about consensus-building for a best ball for the next round?
...
Maybe that means we have to decide on war vs. peace in terms of expansion?