Monarchists' Cookbook I

[Bleys]

Nice round Rolo! I considered going Hut Fishing, but decided to wait. I should have at LEAST sent an Axe up to that one on our shared-land.

I see you also settled on the elephants. I like doing that, they are sub-par tiles, to be honest, with Camps on them anyway, rather have a Plains Workshop instead, and settle on the Ivory for the bonus. Saddly, someone else built the SoZ very shortly after I settled that city, did it get built in your game?

Personally, I am considering not waiting for Sal to build the AP and just build it myself. If Taoism hadnt spread so well in my own game, I may even have pulled a switch-er-roo, but I think Sitting Bull got a bunch of Tao cities (I will check and update). I dont know about you guys, but I like the AP for:

Hammers
Control of the Vote
Not letting the AI have cheese

I rarely rarely ever try to get a "win" with it, in fact, I can only recall one game where I had an AP win, the Ramesses Nobles Club game, when I was going to get a Domination Victory fairly easily, but I was playing on my crappy laptop and it was struggling on the turns, so I took the cheese when it was offered. I think the AP is a broken Wonder (as well as the Mids, but thats neither here nor there), so I try NOT to use the "broken" part. What I really like about it is the "exclusivity" of the hammers. I dont WANT the AIs having the APs religion. I want to avoid them having their own +2H temples and monasteries.

Vale, I have a difficult time relating to your save. There are so many differences from the save we played. I do like your Lib-sling idea though. Constitution is an interesting choice, but I guess I dont understand the "economy" bonus from it. Are you planning to run Merchants instead of Scientists, since you can use Rep and still get the beakers?

Personally, I am looking for Astronomy and Economics to boost me. I like Cottages at this point in the game, if I dont build the Mids, I rarely switch to Rep unless I am SPI or have a Golden Age. I wait til Democracy and switch to US and Emancipation, and pound those cottage tiles into towns ASAP. Rolo popping Astro already has me voting for his save, LOL. With all this ocean, it ensure the war with Sal wont hurt us a bit. Yeah, its a bit early for burning the Colossus, but worth it in my book just for the future war.

 

[r_rolo1]

I settled on the phants mainly because settling 1 NE ( the solon spot ) would catch 2 desert hills.....

SoZ in my game was made by João ( it is in Lisbon ). By the date it was made I strongly suppose that it will be the same for you...

Like I said before, i think that we don't need much more of economy and that is time to think about gearing to war. My prop of Lib Steel is exactly in that direction.... The AI are virtually stalled in tech ( Sal is taking 45 turns to finish Currency and he's not in anarchy ) and it will be a easy mop up

 

[Bleys]

I hear ya, Steel is a great idea, I was thinking Rifles in mine (hence my push for PP), and Drafting a winning army on all landmasses we own.

 

[futurehermit]

I don't think we need steel tbh. Rifles should be enough imo. If we really need to take down defenses spies should do the trick.

 

[vale]

Vale, I have a difficult time relating to your save. There are so many differences from the save we played. I do like your Lib-sling idea though. Constitution is an interesting choice, but I guess I dont understand the "economy" bonus from it. Are you planning to run Merchants instead of Scientists, since you can use Rep and still get the beakers?

No, it is mainly the +3 beakers per specialist. I'm running specialists throughout the empire typically at least a priest (or engineer if I don't have the ability to run a priest). Its overall a pretty huge boost to my research I would say (probably 25% across the board), plus it allows me more flexibility with regards to happiness than HR. In the capital alone, that is 27 beakers a turn just from the switch (and I have obtained more than enough happiness resources to make the switch completely painless.

Personally, I am looking for Astronomy and Economics to boost me. I like Cottages at this point in the game, if I dont build the Mids, I rarely switch to Rep unless I am SPI or have a Golden Age.

That is a big difference here. I am not planning to war with Saladin for a long time. Louis is my target. So with no plans to cut myself off from my trade routes via war with Saladin, Astronomy is pretty far down the list of priorities. Basically I see the slingshot to Constitution followed by teching up the Economics path. Hopefully Economics is in about the same time as the Taj Mahal and I can switch to Nationhood and Free Market during a GA. Then gear for war with Louis who will be a royal pain until he is removed from my continent.

 

[Bleys]

Its overall a pretty huge boost to my research I would say (probably 25% across the board), plus it allows me more flexibility with regards to happiness than HR.

I see, I kind of thought you meant "boost to research" in the other post.

Hopefully Economics is in about the same time as the Taj Mahal and I can switch to Nationhood and Free Market during a GA. Then gear for war with Louis who will be a royal pain until he is removed from my continent.

I agree about stomping on Louis fairly soon, but I also think that taking out Sal and creating some continuity to our empire is going to come before that. I also want to kick Jaoa off that landmass as well, and Astronomy (with Chemisty) is kind of important, as a step Frigates to squish his puny UU.

Winning this game isnt going to be very challenging at this point, though, I am quite sure anyone in the thread can competently polish off the AIs with the massive tech dominance we have. Any plan is sure to be reasonably successful, I just tend to focus on my closest rivals first (Sal, KK, and Jaoa), and the distant ones later. Astronomy would even be sweet for your plan of taking Louis though, you could sail on his Eastern border from our core cities. Be killer to roll one army from the west and sail another assault force from the east.

 

[Bleys]

I settled on the phants mainly because settling 1 NE ( the solon spot ) would catch 2 desert hills.....

That too, but to be honest, unless I had another very strong tile, I almost always settle on plains elephants. You get an extra hammer in the city tile, and the resource without a worker around (sent an Archer on the galley over).

My games SoZ went pretty early in the set though, likely the same turn yours did.

 

[futurehermit]

Louis is the only legitimate threat imo. Kublai, Saladin, Joao, Suleiman, and Toku are basically done expanding and will only get weaker as time goes on. In contrast, if we let Louis expand while we are mopping up those weaklings, he could pose a (not very serious) threat. Plus, it makes sense to continue expanding peacefully east which takes us toward Louis. So, I guess I agree with Vale here.

 

[Bleys]

Plus, it makes sense to continue expanding peacefully east which takes us toward Louis. So, I guess I agree with Vale here.

No doubt this is a solid plan. There is a lot of land over there, we should probably look into cutting off a BIG chunk of it soon. I do like the idea of a sea-assault from his east timed with a ground assault from his west, though.

I am also worried about SB. How does that colony thing work? Can SB ever break free of Sulie and be independent? He has a pile of cities already.

 

[futurehermit]

afaik colonies can't become independent? can anyone verify this? sitting bull can't tech worth crap though so i'm not really worried about him.

 

[OTAKUjbski]

colonies can't become independent?

That is 100% true.

 

[r_rolo1]

Colonies are vassals... then they can break free. That doesn't mean that they want to break free... sometimes even furious capitulated vassals keep in the side of the master until the end, so why colonies wouldn't, with that 10+ in diplo ?

 

[futurehermit]

Here are my summary thoughts on our game:

-There are no naturally good techers in this game

-The tech "problem" (for the AI) is further compounded by the fact that this is an archipelago(-type) map, which the AI sucks at

-Further compounded by the fact that we have the two best economic wonders for this style of map

-Further compounded by the fact that we are securing by far the best and largest chunk of the land (is power)

-We are expanding toward the only credible AI threat (Louis) leading to a natural (imo) war to wipe him out or at least vassalize him

-At that point (if it is not evident already ) all we have to do is figure out the fastest way to win because the game is technically already won

I really have to give props to OTAKU because settling peacefully turned out to be an incredibly powerful move in this game

 

[Winston Hughes]

Colonies are vassals... then they can break free

Yeah, I've seen it happen on at least two occasions. That said, I've seen quite a few cases where a colony should've been able to break away but didn't. I guess the decision to break away is as unpredictable as the decision to release a colony in the first place.

I really have to give props to OTAKU because settling peacefully turned out to be an incredibly powerful move in this game

I still think that going after Sal early would've been the stronger move (that shadow I played only confirmed this belief for me). But you're right to praise OTAKU for realising (thanks in part to his excellent round 2 explorations) that peaceful expansion could be as powerful as it has been.

Anyway, it's time I got on with posting my report for this round...

 

[futurehermit]

Going after Sal could've been strong, I was definitely in favour of it. But settling peacefully the way OTAKU put us in position to do was a winning move imo. TBH it would've been pretty hard to lose this game after we had the GLH, maybe even if we didn't have it, but blocking Sal off to the East, giving us all of that land, was definitely a winning move.

 

[Bleys]

I think taking out Sal very early would have indeed made for a "cleaner" game, because the REXing would have taken care of itself, almost, with very little need for much thinking.

Still, overall, I have to say this game was won with the GLH. That wonder is just mega-strong on maps like this (the NC V, Hannibal game was also like this, a bunch of our "own" landmasses, then some conquering with very close AIs). Its really game-breaking, and even translatable up the difficulty ladder. The GLH would likely have won us this game on Emperor or Immortal, if we had played those levels.

 

[vale]

Here is a test:

Make a colony on a resource rich continent. Immediately demand every resource they have. Enjoy the war. Definitely they can become independent.

 

[Winston Hughes]

With no log or notes, and only a handful of (very unhelpful) mid-round screenies, I've had to rely on memory for this report. So it's a bit crap, I'm afraid...

Spoiler :

To start the round I went on bit of a tech-selling spree - partly to fund research, and partly for the diplo points. I also changed one or two of the builds Bleys had left us with, and switched research to Music (since I had traded Literature to a couple of the AIs, I needed to do this now if I wanted to be sure of getting the free GA).

I decided straight away to go for a full-on landgrab, so many of my builds this round were either settlers, workers, or maces (for barb killing/protection). However, I did manage to sneak in the National Epic in Berlin, and the Mausoleum in Cologne (trying to minimise Artist GPP in the capital).

On the diplomatic front, I engineered two wars:

Firstly, I paid Sully a very modest price (a couple of older techs - one was CoL, I forget the other) to declare on Louis. I never expected this war to last long (I'm not sure it went beyond the 10 turn minimum), but it did a good job of souring relations between Louis and Sully/Sitting Bull. With any luck it also slowed down their expansions into the big continent a little.

Secondly, I bribed Sal to attack Toku, and then joined the war myself when my Arab pal came knocking. This one lasted a bit longer, but I saw no evidence that any actual fighting took place. I got a +1 diplo bonus for my troubles, whilst ensuring that Toku hates both me and Sal.

I don't know if either war was worth the price I paid. But when you've got such a big tech lead, it doesn't hurt to stir things up now and then.

Later in the round, Sal managed to build the AP, and to win the resulting election. However, with all the cities I've been settling, it should be quite straightfoward to wrest control from him. Towards the end of my turnset, I knocked out a couple of missionaries to begin the great conversion.

On the economic front, I spent almost all of the round in Pacifism, ensuring a decent haul of GPs. The first (a GS) built an Academy in Berlin. The second and third (a Prophet and a GM) were both settled in the capital to help pay the immense maintenance costs I began to develop. The last one, a Great Engineer, appeared on the final turn of the round. At the moment he's sitting outside Berlin, along with the Great Artist from Music (no golden age yet for me - better to wait until all the new cities will really benefit).

Elsewhere, my army of workers have started laying down cottages all over the place. Again, that commerce will be needed to pay the bills as even more cities are settled/captured, and as the ones I've already settled begin to grow.

In terms of techs, as well as Music and the Liberalism line, I picked up Drama and Optics. The latter I wanted mainly to build a Theatre in Hsung-Nu (which I feared would be swamped otherwise), but also because it's a cheap tech with little economic or military value, making it perfect for selling to the AI. I went for Optics because I'm still thinking about Astronomy from Liberalism. Although I've cooled on the idea a little, Privateers are still an attractive option imo, and Astro from Lib would be the quickest way to get them (rolo-esque hut-luck aside).

The state of play:

Spoiler :

These are the new cities I settled in this round:

There are troops and another settler in Duisburg (with more troops on the way). My plan was to destroy Bactrian, and then settle a city to the south to claim the furs, deer and crabs. After that, the troops would head over to the other barb cities in the east.

That kind of expansion isn't cheap, though:

However, once the couthouses in Dortmund and Hsung-Nu are whipped (which should be possible any turn now), the Forbidden Palace will be available. If things had been really desperate, I'd have considered using the GE to rush it in a brand new city, but there'll be no need for such wastefulness here.

The rest of the German empire:

And a closer look at the capital:

The current AP standings, plus an overview of German religious beliefs:

There are also two hindu missionaries en route to the eastern cities at the moment.

The diplomatic situation isn't as strong as I would've liked it...

...but I'm confident that future manipulations could give us a decent shot at a diplo win, if so desired.

Technology:

Finally, the demographics screen:

This looks a bit worse than it is. With workers quickly developing my new cities, more cities in easy reach, the Forbidden Palace just around the corner, a Great Artist ready to start a golden age when the time is right, and an Engineer available to rush some choice wonder or other (the Taj Mahal in Hsung-Nu has a certain appeal, though it would be a bit wasteful, given we have Marble), there's plenty of latent strength in the German empire.

Overall, this wasn't one of my better turnsets. I made quite a few small mistakes, and I'm sure you guys could point out some big ones as well. But I'm not too unhappy with where things ended up.

 

[Diamondeye]

Oookay, here I go. I had problems with my Autolog this time as well, and I even renamed the log name under settings (perhaps it is the "Path" that is wrong? It seems to be blank...).

Counting on my autolog this time, I didnt take as many screenies on my way through the game. In total, I believe I have 33 screenies for 700 AD-1180 AD, so I'll have to post the rest in the next post.

Spoiler Report :

First off, I look around a bit, in the cities and on the tech tree. Bleys has done a nice job, imo. I was surprised when I found out we had Philosophy already. It looked as though Bleys was pursuing Liberalism, and with that in mind, I set off for the round. I researched a couple of turns into paper before noticing something right off our northern coast, north of Berlin:

This must be the last AI; Kublai Khan. I had no idea he was so close to us.
Anyway, a turn more pass and my scout in French lands (nice job!) sees something that might help us in our quest for circumnavigation:

The tiles are coastal meaning there are islands out there. If we can buy Louis' map, we might be able to circumnaigate without building Caravels...

Next thing I know, I get the message that the nearby barb town "Magyar" has been captured (by SB, I think). I go to check because my scout isnt busy, and the barb city is still, well, barbarian (Image not attached due to limit, can attach later if needed?)
Also, the SoZ was built.

I buy Louis' map and it shows off we will need a caravel. So after Paper, it's Optics. I am thinking of taking Astro of Lib. We are going to need both Optics and Astro anyway. I quickly pump out a caravel in Berlin and journey west in 2-3 turns, and:

I am running a serious deficit (since I am settling more cities on the big continent(!)), so in order to keep the pace, I sell Monotheism to Joao for a laughable price:

Since we are basing an economy on trades and worked commerce tiles (coast with colossus, plenty of cottages), I figure we need more happiness. Since I have no spare happiness resources, the deal gets rather uneven, but I dont care:

After that my Caravel goes scouting north of Germanica Maior, and finds KK.

Thucydides judges the strength of the nations:

Optics allows Dortmund to find a little island with its LOS:

I am thinking of settling it actually...

The french have been selling me Pig for Clam, but they drop that trade. Next turn, this pops:

Great. Crabs are far superior to Pigs healthwise. Nice move, Louis.

Now, good news. Saladin decides to build the AP:

And bad news, he becomes pope by the split of a hair:

Now, my round ends after teching Paper-Optics-Education-Calendar, just before starting on Lib. I popped a Great Merchant, who is in Berlin, waiting. I am thinking of popping a GA with him sometime. Or using him for a trade mission. I get another GP next turn (1190), odds are Scientist ~40%, Prophet ~30%, Merchant ~30%, in Berlin.

So, with that said, a brief overview:

Germanica Maior:

Germanica Novus:

Sitting Bulls land (from Louis' map):

Toku and KKs land (from exploring):

Newest city with some kind of mistake on its traderoute calcs:

F1:

Financial Advisor:

Tech Advisor:

Religion Advisor:

And the only Graph where I am not in the lead; Power:

Spoiler PROs and CONs :

PROs:

• Hinduism in all but two cities (a missionary is on its way to Cologne)
• The AP is built and is Hinduistic
• Very good infrastructure in most cities, many workers
• Many cities
• Tech advantage directed at Astronomy, although Lib is open
• High happy cap (partly due to trades)
• No golden Ages used yet

CONs

• Saladin is only Pleased; not Friendly
• Saladin is the resident of the AP, we are not
• Economy is rather weak due to expansion
• Power is relatively low, especially compared to Tokugawas
• Louis has not splitted his empire to a vassal
• We will suffer unhappiness if Sal cancels the trade for Gems/Dyes
• Great Merchant hasn't been utilized properly, could've been settled

If anyone can come up with more, please do so.

 

[r_rolo1]

Nice Round, Diamond .....

A minor and non game related correction:

Germanica Novus has a MAJOR ERROR : Germanica is a feminin adjective and novus is masculine adverb Want you wanted to write is ( Terra ) Germanica nova .....