[R&F] Mongolia First Look

Although he reminds me of robot when he moves, I think his character model is going to be among my favourites!

Anyone spot Mongolia's icon symbol in the First Look video?
Not this time, although I think it's going to be the flame from the Soyombo symbol.
 
From the video, the trading post is created immediately when you start a trade route. So if you see a Mongol caravan coming towards you, it's too late.
But still, you probably won't know about it until you have a visual of the caravan. In which case you may decide to at least stop the road from coming.
 
So what's the tactic for killing keshiss? At least, if Keshigs can't move after attacking they're not completely vulnerable. But a decent Mongolian player would have a spaced out front rank of knights and a dense second rank of keshigs. With a minimum strength boost of +6 it's hard to see what could counter it... A keshig would have a ranged attack strength of 46 with range 2 and 6 moves (with stables), meaning it attacks with almost the strength of a knight, does no damage while doing so, and can (on open ground) attack a target 7 tiles away. They are sort of weak on the defense (36 is still not too bad) but it would be easy to position a few knights to protect them. Those knights having a +6 bonus.

As far as I can tell, the strategies to kill keshigs is:
1) Spam pikeman and hope that your opponent is too bad at tactics to use their massive mobility to isolate and destroy them with ranged attacks.
2) Spam knights and try to bring the keshigs into melee. However, the Mongolia's greater mobility means your knights would almost certainly have to suffer at least 1 ranged attack at 48vs46, and then close to enemy knights at 48vs54. Trying to kill those knights while getting rained on by keshigs seems almost impossible.
3) Hide in cities. But not only will your districts get wrecked, Mongolia will also be able to move battering rams towards you with 6 moves.

Am I missing something? Is this a war you simply need massively more resources to win? Maybe forcing the enemy to fight in hilly jungles would help a bit?

Not sure, but I'm ready to bet that keshig replace knights, they come at stirrups...if this is the case, mongols will have to rely on simple cavalry for all melee purposes (cavalry on steroids to be more accurate)
 
Not sure, but I'm ready to bet that keshig replace knights, they come at stirrups...

You can see Stirrups in the First Look. Keshigs and Knights are side-by-side. So the Keshigs replace nothing. They will have to be built fresh.
 
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You can see Stirrups in the First Look. Keshigs and Knights are side-by-side. So the Keshigs replace nothing. They will have to be built fresh.

Oh wow ok. In that case yes, keshig and knights. Still, countering Mongolia with cavalry is a terrible idea
 
Self defeating with cavalry maybe but maybe as bait or distraction?
 
You should probably make good use of forts and encampments, load them with ranged units.

Since the Mongols will have to build or buy Keshigs fresh, they won't have many right away at stirrups, and they won't have many promotions.

Your best bet is to beeline renaissance techs like gunpowder and metal casting for musketmen and pike&shot.
 
Ah yes, I forgot, countering Mongolia with cavalry is likely to be self defeating. But how could pikes possibly actually catch a Keshig??

As far as historical accuracy is concerned...well, how can I put it...nobody catches a mongol on a horse. Option is outnumbering them and mixing pikes and crossbows. Option two is getting rid of them in the early game. Option three is out-teching them...a lot.
 
UB: Ordu: That's where the word horde comes from and, unlike the way we us it now (cof cof the leader ability) it only referred to the socio-political structure typical of many central Asian societies. That said, the in game building has nothing to do with it but is nonetheless extremely historically accurate. Faster horses, thus faster army, was the true key to the Mongols' military success.

Looks like they were referring to the mobile army camps made of gers (yurts) like in this picture.
 

Looks like they were referring to the mobile army camps made of gers (yurts) like in this picture.
Yeah, I might have oversimplified, but I still don't see the connection with the in game ability, even their explanation does not fully convince me
 
Sure, you can have a play-style where you build horse armies and attack the civ to the north first, you can have another play-style where you build horse armies to the south first......

Seriously though....Huh?
Well you don't HAVE to go the militaristic route. Training 1 cavalry unit might be all you need to do, making use of the Leader Ability could be enough to amass a substantial army whilst focusing production on other things. The Civ Ability also helps out defensively as well. Combined with the ability to move Settlers and Builders around the map quickly by putting them into formation with Keshigs, you have a very expansive civ on your hands.
 
Makes me wonder if Barbarian cavalry units can be captured. Although, if the Aztecs are anything to go by, they probably won't.
 
As far as I can tell, the strategies to kill keshigs is:
1) Spam pikeman and hope that your opponent is too bad at tactics to use their massive mobility to isolate and destroy them with ranged attacks.

Have pikemen and crossbowmen. Use forts and encampments to restrict the area of movement. Put your cities in hilly areas to slow the Mongols down and hopefully restrict their firing range.

I still think mounted units should have weaker strength while on hills, but that's a hill I might be dying on.
 
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