LukaSlovenia29
Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2016
- Messages
- 1,500
I'm in favour of removing annexation via heavy tribute.
In my opinion it is not about Mongolia being to weak. Personally i dislike the design and it seems like i'm not the only one. Annexing CS is not something i want to do really. It is better to leave them and have as allies.I think just buffing the potency of the bully annex is all we need.
I agree a lot with this. Mongolia's UA removes an action I want to do (heavy tribute) and replaces it with an action I don't want to do. If I really want to annex a city state, its not hard to just take it normally.In my opinion it is not about Mongolia being to weak. Personally i dislike the design and it seems like i'm not the only one. Annexing CS is not something i want to do really. It is better to leave them and have as allies.
These ideas aren’t the friendliest for the AI.
I think just buffing the potency of the bully annex is all we need.
G
no lol the autocracy tenet just makes it that AI can bully allied city-states since a static bully penalty from being an ally is removed. It doesn't teach the AI any new tricks.Also being able to bully allies is already part of the code from the tenet of autocracy, so isn't the AI already able to get that?
As it is annexing on heavy tribute is pure anti-synergy with the best backup plan to domination, and this seems like a simple and straight foreward solution.
no lol the autocracy tenet just makes it that AI can bully allied city-states since a static bully penalty from being an ally is removed. It doesn't teach the AI any new tricks.
The Heavy Annexation is a strong ability that instantly clears up a CS for your own uses. Find an annoying sphere of influenced CS you just can't repeal? Annex it. You can even use the heavy annexation as a forward base when your empire starts attacking different continents. It is no means weak. The human playing Mongolia are too tame, while the AI plays Mongolia like how it was designed. Not to mention you can easily put down cities that rebelled away into your empire instantly with some units.
It's not a strong ability because you can literally do it yourself with relative ease for the vast majority of the game by using the declare war button on a CS.The Heavy Annexation is a strong ability that instantly clears up a CS for your own uses. Find an annoying sphere of influenced CS you just can't repeal? Annex it. You can even use the heavy annexation as a forward base when your empire starts attacking different continents. It is no means weak. The human playing Mongolia are too tame, while the AI plays Mongolia like how it was designed. Not to mention you can easily put down cities that rebelled away into your empire instantly with some units.
This is the one I'd think is way more AI unfriendly. I'm not a coder so I'm shooting in the dark, but it seems like it would require a lot of logic to choose who to bully and who to ally.So far I think I like the proposal that demanding heavy tribute lowers everyone's influence with a CS by 60 the best.
Remember how strong his UA was when it wasn't on a cooldown. It overperformed most of the time as long as it had city-states to heavy annex. Even when it didn't have a cooldown, them having a fight on city-state borders suddenly had it be annexed out of nowhere. Having it be restricted to a Sphere of Influence is just nerfing Mongolia. 8(at most considering the current cooldown) Sphere of Influences isn't as strong as 8 free cities. Not to mention Sphere of Influences don't work pre-world congress code-wise, so that idea is thrown off the table.It's not a strong ability because you can literally do it yourself with relative ease for the vast majority of the game by using the declare war button on a CS.
Also if that's the case them my suggestion is even more AI friendly. I think shooting blindly and grabbing any CS they can with a shpere of influence would work better than what we have now, and tributing them would come naturally. If some logic was added that helped them choose the right CS to sphere of influence it would be nice, but doesn't seem needed.
Yeah. Taking over all the city states without increasing warmonger score or wasting any time is OP. Taking 1 every 50 turns is really, really mild. It's also way worse late game, while a city state ally is useful all game long.Remember how strong his UA was when it wasn't on a cooldown.
1- A Sphere of Influence would hurt diplomatic civs the same as taking over the city state.The Mongols are supposed to be a sort of counterpick to diplo civs, correct?
I don't get the feeling we want to pivot Mongolia that way.
Is this idea is impossible code-wise please let me know @Gazebo.Not to mention Sphere of Influences don't work pre-world congress code-wise, so that idea is thrown off the table.
Unless suddenly we want to establish Permanent Alliances with City-States outside of Sphere of Influences, then that's a different detail to discuss on.
Yeah. Taking over all the city states without increasing warmonger score or wasting any time is OP. Taking 1 every 50 turns is really, really mild. It's also way worse late game, while a city state ally is useful all game long.
1- A Sphere of Influence would hurt diplomatic civs the same as taking over the city state.
2- Being good at stopping a VC doesn't make a civ good. Sure you can mess with Venice trying to win WC, but Korea is still going to space and Brazil brand bluejeans are all the rage with your kids.
Remember when Japan had a -50% tourism modifier? That was removed for a reason. It shut down a VC without actually enabling it or offering real counterplay besides the omnipotent "murder them."
As @crdvis16 pointed out "In terms of filling a role, only Greece also comes to mind as a warmonger/diplomatic civ so maybe having another one would be good."
He seemed on the fence, but I think he makes a good point. Why not pivot that way a bit? I think saying that they can only be against diplomacy and can't have any bonuses towards it themselves limits them and creates an unfun dynamic.
Is this idea is impossible code-wise please let me know @Gazebo.
To be clear here's my current suggestion:
When demanding heavy tribute Mongolia can establish a permanent alliance / sphere of influence with a city state once every 50 turns. Mongolia can tribute friends and allies, but still loses influence like normal.