Perhaps, if a city-state has been pledged to protect then Mongolia cannot force annex it until its protectors are dead or stopped protecting them...
Mongolia
- Thread starter Der_Zorn_gottes
- Start date
pineappledan
Deity
That wouldn't stop Mongolia's early game at all though. AIs dont pledge to protect that early, and human players never get the army score needed to protect them in time, especially not at higher difficulties.
tu_79
Deity
Can we make now Mongolia UA start in Medieval?
BiteInTheMark
Deity
I think it was fine with the cooldown.
Maybe integrate it again but with a, lets say, 40 turn cooldown? In most of my games those mongolian snowball really fast early on.
Maybe integrate it again but with a, lets say, 40 turn cooldown? In most of my games those mongolian snowball really fast early on.
chicorbeef
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2017
- Messages
- 1,561
Well, the old issue with tribute being better than annexing has been kind of solved with the addition of +250% of Tribute yields, but I think that delaying the Mongol snowball to the Medieval Era (it would be historically accurate too..) is a better solution because it means that Mongols don't have this weird situation of "get a super-duper heavy tribute of only one yield every 40 turns". Like you wouldn't get a situation early on where you get 300+ Culture from one city-state and then can't demand heavy tribute from anyone else.
tu_79
Deity
The best part of delaying the ability to medieval is that by then, Mongols really need a big army if they're trying to demand tribute, since those city states can be protected by more major civs.
I do however think delaying the ability to Classical is more okay since there were documentation of them doing that around the classical times than the ancient times (which were barely documented)...
Because it is strange to lose the ability to Bully in the Ancient Era and Classical Era...
Because it is strange to lose the ability to Bully in the Ancient Era and Classical Era...
tu_79
Deity
Wouldn't you prefer to be able to ask for minor tribute meanwhile? Because the alternative is a 40-50 turns cooldown of Mongolia UA. I'd rather have it limited to minor tribute in the first eras, and be able to annex at any time later.
pineappledan
Deity
My opinion is still that the annex on heavy tribute isn’t worth saving. If you set a hard unlock or a rigid cooldown, it feels arbitrary and unsatisfying.
Even by G’s logic of why the annexation exists as an aspect of mongolia’s Kit, it doesn’t make sense to me. He described it as part of mongolia’s “Benign neglect” administration philosophy. Direct annexations don’t make sense in that context, but some other form of passive tribute might.
Even by G’s logic of why the annexation exists as an aspect of mongolia’s Kit, it doesn’t make sense to me. He described it as part of mongolia’s “Benign neglect” administration philosophy. Direct annexations don’t make sense in that context, but some other form of passive tribute might.
BiteInTheMark
Deity
Instead a hard cap or unlock on era, why not making the annexation by heavy tribute to a scaling mechanic by era:
1 annexation of CS instead of heavy tribute per era, scaling with era + Gain 35% of heavy tribute yields on smaller tribute.
1 annexation of CS instead of heavy tribute per era, scaling with era + Gain 35% of heavy tribute yields on smaller tribute.
pineappledan
Deity
I'm now midway through a game with Mongolia. Didn't get a great roll on city-State neighbours, with 3 of 5 within reach being Maritime. If you force annex on those ones, the massive 
dump can sink your capital pretty hard. I annexed one to see, and it grew from 12-17
on the yields alone, and put me in a minor poverty hole that took me ~25 turns to get back out of. I stand by my assertion that Mongolia's kit is just too powerful right now. The annexations require very little effort, can be done in fairly quick succession (as long as your happiness can handle it), and the yields bath is huge. Religious, Cultured, and Militaristic city-states are a massive boon. I'm not sure why the 250% on heavy tribute is necessary; Temujin already gets a whole city with all its infrastructure intact. Just the normal amount, or +50% would be more than enough.
Mongolia went from having no yields on a 50 turn cooldown annex to having 2.5x yields on annex AND they can now fire it off basically whenever their empire can manage the happiness hit. It's a massive steroid.
I'll be damned if it's not a tremendously fun kit tho. Massive border blobs, an almost guaranteed religion, and 2 obscene power spikes at Mathematics & Physics. You're kickin ass and taking names, running laps around everyone else, especially with a desert nearby. Lots of fun.
dump can sink your capital pretty hard. I annexed one to see, and it grew from 12-17 on the yields alone, and put me in a minor poverty hole that took me ~25 turns to get back out of. I stand by my assertion that Mongolia's kit is just too powerful right now. The annexations require very little effort, can be done in fairly quick succession (as long as your happiness can handle it), and the yields bath is huge. Religious, Cultured, and Militaristic city-states are a massive boon. I'm not sure why the 250% on heavy tribute is necessary; Temujin already gets a whole city with all its infrastructure intact. Just the normal amount, or +50% would be more than enough.Mongolia went from having no yields on a 50 turn cooldown annex to having 2.5x yields on annex AND they can now fire it off basically whenever their empire can manage the happiness hit. It's a massive steroid.
I'll be damned if it's not a tremendously fun kit tho. Massive border blobs, an almost guaranteed religion, and 2 obscene power spikes at Mathematics & Physics. You're kickin ass and taking names, running laps around everyone else, especially with a desert nearby. Lots of fun.
Last edited:
soupwithsauce
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2018
- Messages
- 25
This is the last straw!I'm now midway through a game with Mongolia. Didn't get a great roll on city-State neighbours, with 3 of 5 within reach being Maritime. If you force annex on those ones, the massive
Mongolia went from having no yields on a 50 turn cooldown annex to having 2.5x yields on annex AND they can now fire it off basically whenever their empire can manage the happiness hit. It's a massive steroid.
I'll be damned if it's not a tremendously fun kit tho. Massive border blobs, an almost guaranteed religion, and 2 obscene power spikes at Mathematics & Physics. You're kickin ass and taking names, running laps around everyone else, especially with a desert nearby. Lots of fun.
I’m starting a Mongolia playthrough
this sounds like too much fun. What’s your initial tech/build order?
pineappledan
Deity
Tech: Pottery ==> Animal Husbandry ==> Whatever your luxury is ==> Trade ==> mathematics
Build: Shrine ==> Ger ==> Warrior (Archer if you have Hunting) ==> Monument ==> Settler ==> Worker ==> Settler ==> Chariot Archer (x2) ==> Market ==> Council
That's what I did at least
You should be able to Rush your Ger and buy another worker in there. Settle your nearest horses and set the worker on that, priority #1. Ger gives bonuses to all pasture resources in addition to normal granary boosts, so you need to get animal husbandry up so you a) can benefit from the UB, and b) know where to settle.
You're intentionally delaying monument until you can get the pantheon up. Hopefully you have only expanded 1 time since the game started before god of the Expanse is up. The production infusion will help get the settlers out faster.
God of the expanse for pantheon. Authority policy branch. Only keep the warrior to protect yourself and wait for your chariots to go hunting. That should be late enough to ensure you get your culture on kills.
Don't worry about scouting too much beyond finding a good spot for your first 2 expansions. Too much ruin hunting would likely result in a border expansion ruin, which actually hurts you in the long run.
You will need markets up fast with Mongolia. Authority has no reliable gold, and you will run into serious army maintenance problems fairly quickly without markets
Build: Shrine ==> Ger ==> Warrior (Archer if you have Hunting) ==> Monument ==> Settler ==> Worker ==> Settler ==> Chariot Archer (x2) ==> Market ==> Council
That's what I did at least
You should be able to Rush your Ger and buy another worker in there. Settle your nearest horses and set the worker on that, priority #1. Ger gives bonuses to all pasture resources in addition to normal granary boosts, so you need to get animal husbandry up so you a) can benefit from the UB, and b) know where to settle.
You're intentionally delaying monument until you can get the pantheon up. Hopefully you have only expanded 1 time since the game started before god of the Expanse is up. The production infusion will help get the settlers out faster.
God of the expanse for pantheon. Authority policy branch. Only keep the warrior to protect yourself and wait for your chariots to go hunting. That should be late enough to ensure you get your culture on kills.
Don't worry about scouting too much beyond finding a good spot for your first 2 expansions. Too much ruin hunting would likely result in a border expansion ruin, which actually hurts you in the long run.
You will need markets up fast with Mongolia. Authority has no reliable gold, and you will run into serious army maintenance problems fairly quickly without markets
Just starting some games to try out mongolia and a warmongering playstyle . I think the game I am currently having is pretty good. start, but I was unsure at several spot
Whats your general strategy advise here? Do you annex CS asap as long as happyness stays managable? (above around -10?) Or is it better to let them grow and build some base buildings? Also in gernaeral I am not conquering that much cities early (Neighbors + CS) before Courthouses. Generally I try to annex all cities in decent spots and try to integrate it into my empire. When do you decide to annex or puppet?
Whats your general strategy advise here? Do you annex CS asap as long as happyness stays managable? (above around -10?) Or is it better to let them grow and build some base buildings? Also in gernaeral I am not conquering that much cities early (Neighbors + CS) before Courthouses. Generally I try to annex all cities in decent spots and try to integrate it into my empire. When do you decide to annex or puppet?
Version 3-28 + really advanced setup, king difficulty, epic speed, standard size, communitas pangea, 12 citystates.
I have issues in current game with Mongolia, they've grown very big gulping citystates very quick and stomping other AI's.
Mongolia stomps Assyria, China and more.
Mongols are currently 22 cities, I'm big at 14, third civ is at 10 cities.
Is this an anomaly or is Mongolia a snowball monster?
I have issues in current game with Mongolia, they've grown very big gulping citystates very quick and stomping other AI's.
Mongolia stomps Assyria, China and more.
Mongols are currently 22 cities, I'm big at 14, third civ is at 10 cities.
Is this an anomaly or is Mongolia a snowball monster?
I mean, he's a warmonger so he's kind of doing what he's supposed to do right? I don't see him snowball out of control in my games. Usually he eats up some civs/CSs on his continent but doesn't have a good way to convert those gains into an actual win even if he's very threatening to his neighbors. Is he leading in tech or policies? Is he actually going to win a domination victory?
pineappledan
Deity
I haven’t had Mongolia appear in my (2) games since I did a play through with them. It was an absolute massacre. A compstomp. I would be surprised if the very minor nerf which made tributes slightly harder to do for Mongolia actually affected them too much.
I say this as someone who is a terrible warmonger. Playing Mongolia feels like a cheat code to me.
I say this as someone who is a terrible warmonger. Playing Mongolia feels like a cheat code to me.
