Monthly competitions submission thread

[Kyriakos]

Imo conversions should not be part of the competition, since most probably they took only a few minutes to copy/paste, and so would set a dissapointing precedent if they won, let alone discourage the actual creation of original gfx.
Perhaps a seperate conversion/copy-paste competition could be established.
Also i maintain the view that conversions should use only special allocated seats in buses.

 

[Plotinus]

Conversions can take lots of effort - especially cut 'n' paste units, which could easily take more effort than creating a new one from scratch. I see nothing wrong with allowing conversions into the competition provided they're clearly labelled as such.

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

Agreed. My first cities were made by the cut n' paste method. It was actually more work than making the graphics myself since I had to mix and match buildings, position them correctly, and make alterations (since the buildings I used had some stuff in the background) so they would fit. Pixel-by-pixel was actually much, much more efficient.

 

[beboy]

I third Plotinus and Ogedei. I'm actually doing a cut n' paste unit and I only wish I had a modelling program allowing me to create a unit from scratch!!
And in a way, forgery is an art..

 

[Flamand]

It took me a while to arrive to the conclusion that conversions should be able to join as well. In the end I decided to leave the decision to the voters, who can easily see the difference between CnP and modelled entries. And for those for those who cannot see the difference between the two, I always add the mentioning that it is a conversion/ CnP/ joint project/...

And that is also why I have everyone say that "magical oath" thingy at the entry of a file, so the entrant can state any appropriate acknowledgments. For the past two months, sinceI started this thread, there haven't been any weird problems anymore. So I assume that theset of rules I use now is adequate...

Hey, Flamand, just saw "V for Vendetta". That's one sweet movie...

You're darn right it is...

 

[Spacer One]

I agree to the "conversion" part, as often conversions require little work...but I would like a definition of C-N-P at that point...

Im not sure if my submission is C-N-P at all...I used a graphic, not a pic...I didnt convert...the graphic I used is not a model, or 3d(rotatable) but I did adjust the lighting...I will give that the splash is a pic from the web...

My question is: what is NOT c-n-p for wonder/improvements?
do I have to build a model from scratch or can I use exsisting graphics?

sorry for all the questions, it woudnt matter normally(for Civ3 use) but for the technical usesof a compitition it might matter...

"It all depends on what the meaning of the word "IS" is" - Pres. Bill Clinton

 

[Olorin0222]

Artist: Olorin0222
Name of file: V-Wing
Other/ original artist: does not apply

"I hereby declare that this file is my own work and that the original artists on these pages (if any) have consented in its submission according to the rules of this competition."
Link to thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=182298

 

[Flamand]

I used a graphic, not a pic...

Is there a difference? I meant "previously existing graphical material by an artist other than yourself". I don't think Ican make it any more specific without asking my lawyer...

"It all depends on what the meaning of the word "IS" is" - Pres. Bill Clinton

Great quote...

@Olorin: he's in..

 

[Kyriakos]

The argument that if it is mentioned that the graphic presented is a conversion would be adequate as to make it a distinct entry from the rest in some way, is in reality not one which diminishes the case against its participation in a contest where original works also are to be found. Afterall what exactly does one hope to achieve by having a conversion be allowed to participate, simply by persisting in titling it as one? For sure it would have been unethical to present foreign work as one's own, however here the discussion is about its effects in a competition, and as such one should note that by focuing attention on the conversion aspect of the graphic it would seem that in theory he would be indirectly agreeing that a conversion is not of the same value as an original graphic, and definately not of the same value as a creation. However this supposed intention would be entirely negated if a conversion would win, since then it would not matter anymore that it was not an original creation. Therefore one achieves absolutely nothing at all by allowing a conversion to participate, and then just focuing on the fact that it is a conversion, since its character as a conversion would not guarantee a more austere position against it (and besides, this would not be fair either) and on the other hand could never effectively guarantee neither a liberation from its character as a conversion (since that would not fair to the original graphics next to it). Due to this i am against conversions taking part in the competition.
I can very well see that converted gfx can be of very high quality, but the point of a competition should be about trying to make something better. Would it be fair to have a hologram of Pelopidas taking part in an modern olympic marathon, and accepting it as the representative of another athlete who would be immobile for the entire duration of the race? Would it be fair to have a photocopy of a Van Gogh painting taking part in a modern art contest?

 

[Flamand]

I agree in principle with your argument that by labelling entries as conversions it is implied they have less artistic value than an original work. But how far do you need to take this? Aaglo makes his orks himself, my spaceships are mostly downloaded from various Star Trek websites. Does that mean I myself should be excluded from competition for this reason?

The question here should be what level of artistic originality is required to compete here. And instead of making it an exclusive business I prefer to make it an open competition in which, besides artistic qualities, originality plays an important role. A unit can be CnP and still be very original, as proven by last months entry of a machinegun priest...

Unit conversions from other games without original alterations, CnP of any graphical material (not created by the submitter) into tech icons/ splash screens etc... will therefore no longer be allowed from the September competitions onwards.

But so far I only excluded one submission for not being origial at all: a small editing of the unit ini file to include a bombing animation...

Would it be fair to have a photocopy of a Van Gogh painting taking part in a modern art contest?

If I understand modern art correctly it depends on who took the photocopy and what explanation he gives to it...

 

[Kyriakos]

CnP is very different from conversion though. A static graphic conversion ussually takes a few seconds to "create", which is why it forces a decadence into the meaning of a competition.

 

[Flamand]

Which is why I excluded it from future competitions...

 

[mrtn]

I thought that one of the points of these competitions is to make people participate and create stuff for the community. Not to give someone a trophy just for spending a lot of time on a hobby.

Flamand, I don't see a point of rewriting the rules to force people to add small changes, just to say that they've done them, so they can enter. I trust that the voters have a brain of their own, and will reward original work according to it's merit.

And I invite anyone to try to replicate my Dwarf Sanctuary in a few seconds. This includes making the custom background, changing the colour of the roof and fixing the edges. Maybe you have to learn Photoshop and how to adjust filters to make a background that would fit inside a dwarven mine, use the first second for that then.

 

[Stormrage]

I think the conversions should be allowed. Just because conversions aren`t in the competition won`t make the "hand made" stuff any better

 

[Kyriakos]

Well if you do not want to work on it at all then why have it in a competition?
For example it would be at least in poor taste to post a civ2 airfield i have, and could upload it without even one change as a file, in a competition. My work on it would be to press a few buttons on gimp so as to set the colours so that it can work as a civ3 file. For this i would need to be familiar with gimp. That is not that much of an deal.

 

[Stormrage]

I thought that one of the points of these competitions is to make people participate and create stuff for the community. Not to give someone a trophy just for spending a lot of time on a hobby.

This might answer your question?

 

[Spacer One]

(Is there a difference? I meant "previously existing graphical material by an artist other than yourself". I don't think Ican make it any more specific without asking my lawyer...)

So then if you "borrow" a model to make a unit, its C-N-P??
because thats pretty much what I did(you dont animate Wonders)...got a model for the prog Im toying with...adjusted the light, and save the result as a GIMP pcx....

Im sorry to ask...(I really dont care) but I want to clarify the difference...if I had built the original "Model" would it still be C-N-P??

 

[Flamand]

Originally Posted by mrtn
I thought that one of the points of these competitions is to make people participate and create stuff for the community. Not to give someone a trophy just for spending a lot of time on a hobby.

Exactly...

 

[Kyriakos]

Not really. What that quote means in reality is that the competition is seen as an incentive. However if you want to pay attention to that they why not pay attention to its negative effects too? (eg they discourage original work, if work that can compete does not have to be at all original or actually even worked upon).

 

[Stormrage]

OK, V, thats like, either very good english, too good for me to understand, or its la davian. Anywhoo, WTH?

@Flamand : http://wforwalrus.ytmnd.com/