Monty Prince AI - Domination Victory

[Gazebo]

Hey all,

A lot of users have asked me over the past year or so if the AI can ever win domination. They do, however I always fail to get snapshots. Today I got a few from a game. Monty went ballistic (literally) and took over the world by 1995 (I didn't snap the last pic until 1999, as I'd stepped away for the finale). Not bad, Monty. Not bad at all. Images forthcoming.



G

 

[ryanmusante]

Not bad, Monty. Not bad at all. Images forthcoming.

Fascinating, were nuclear weapons used at any point on this devastation? What map script is that? I like the separation of continents. Did they traverse early to settle and battle or was it not until late game that majority cities were taken?

 

[Txurce]

Fascinating, were nuclear weapons used at any point on this devastation?

Gazebo said Monty went ballistic.

 

[ryanmusante]

Gazebo said Monty went ballistic.

Ahh, indeed, I missed that.

 

[Gazebo]

Fascinating, were nuclear weapons used at any point on this devastation? What map script is that? I like the separation of continents. Did they traverse early to settle and battle or was it not until late game that majority cities were taken?

It's just good old fashioned continents.

Monty kinda dawdled until about 1900, taking China's capital around 1850. Once he had planes, he took out Portugal for a beachhead and then blitzed the whole continent in about 60 turns. Used nukes just two times. A mongol city flipped to him right next to Portugal and he staged his assault from there.

G

 

[Txurce]

It's just good old fashioned continents.

Monty kinda dawdled until about 1900, taking China's capital around 1850. Once he had planes, he took out Portugal for a beachhead and then blitzed the whole continent in about 60 turns. Used nukes just two times. A mongol city flipped to him right next to Portugal and he staged his assault from there.

G

Wow. That's fantastic. Seriously one of the most impressive sequences I've heard of the AI taking.

 

[Owlbebach]

Was this standard speed?

 

[randomnub]

This obviously calls for an Aztec nerf, a nuke nerf, increased warmonger penalities, improved anti-runaway diplomacy, a change in late game science output and increased maintenance on units. I'm in favor of introducing all sort of mechanics that make it impossible for anybody to win the game, then VP will finally be perfect.

 

[ashendashin]

This obviously calls for an Aztec nerf, a nuke nerf, increased warmonger penalities, improved anti-runaway diplomacy, a change in late game science output and increased maintenance on units. I'm in favor of introducing all sort of mechanics that make it impossible for anybody to win the game, then VP will finally be perfect.

Ya know, from a design point of view, I think it would be nice for a civ game to have solid victories always seem out of reach. For an end to be reached through victory kinda removes the point, since winning at the concept of civilization implies no end.
Of course it's a game with multiplayer so there's gotta be some way to end things properly, but these select hard victories where strategies revolve around shouldn't be the only way to design Civ.

@Gazebo , I've only seen screens from you showing the strongest warmongers winning domination! Have you seen a non-warmonger civ conquer the world by circumstance?

 

[BiteInTheMark]

Strongest warmongers? How do you define strongest? Monte is agressiv, but he didnt get any bonuses in fighting, and the gold/faith for killed units isnt worth mentioning in lategame.
Sweden, Zulu, Greek are in my opinion stronger, cause they get active combat modification or benefits by fighting.

 

[ashendashin]

Strongest warmongers? How do you define strongest? Monte is agressiv, but he didnt get any bonuses in fighting, and the gold/faith for killed units isnt worth mentioning in lategame.
Sweden, Zulu, Greek are in my opinion stronger, cause they get active combat modification or benefits by fighting.

Let me rephrase it then- I've only seen pics showing the most war-oriented civs going for a domination win.
Monte is very much a warmonger regardless of the time period. I didn't mean for it to come off as if the AI needs the strongest abilities to win at domination.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

But you have to agree, some civilizations like brazil, austria or arabia would kill their own advantages if they would go global killing spree.

 

[ashendashin]

But you have to agree, some civilizations like brazil, austria or arabia would kill their own advantages if they would go global killing spree.

I'm not saying ALL civs should get pushed to it. I've only seen G show the most extreme warmongers go for it. There's plenty of civs that can support a quick turnabout at that stage.

 

[Gazebo]

Typically the strongest warmonger civs are the only civs who can dominate globally quickly enough to beat out other victory types.

G

 

[Jdoug312]

Typically the strongest warmonger civs are the only civs who can dominate globally quickly enough to beat out other victory types.

G

Balance-wise, would you consider this ok, or in need of additional tuning? I think you're on the right track by pushing back science and cultural victories until the 400s to give domination civs a little more time.

Could you run some AI tests for Epic and Marathon too? I know balance isn't based on those speeds but in theory the additional time in each era could make for a more even victory condition spread

 

[Txurce]

Balance-wise, would you consider this ok, or in need of additional tuning? I think you're on the right track by pushing back science and cultural victories until the 400s to give domination civs a little more time.

Could you run some AI tests for Epic and Marathon too? I know balance isn't based on those speeds but in theory the additional time in each era could make for a more even victory condition spread

FWIW, CVs aren't being pushed back to the 400's.

 

[Gazebo]

Balance-wise, would you consider this ok, or in need of additional tuning? I think you're on the right track by pushing back science and cultural victories until the 400s to give domination civs a little more time.

Could you run some AI tests for Epic and Marathon too? I know balance isn't based on those speeds but in theory the additional time in each era could make for a more even victory condition spread

I’d say it’s fine. If every VC is available to all civs at the same time, why do we have UAs?

Plus, keep in mind that warmongers tend to move towards warmonger wonders, policies, and beliefs, so it accelerates their abilities.

G

 

[Jdoug312]

I’d say it’s fine. If every VC is available to all civs at the same time, why do we have UAs?

I didn't mean to imply that every civ should be able to win all victory conditions, but surely there's a sweet spot where all warmonger civs are a threat for that instead of it just being the ones who are considered "the strongest".

Obviously tho if someone like Darius can't conquer a civ like Shaka (not implying this is the case) because both are at roughly equal strength in the game, it'd make sense that neither would win domination before a third civ wins something they were focused on that wasn't war. Unless ofc Darius and/or Shaka wiped all the other civs and just hammered it out between the two of them lol, which would be a very smart strategic idea for warmongering civs who isn't having success dethroning another, but maybe this is already roughly what they do?

 

[Jdoug312]

Unless ofc Darius and/or Shaka wiped all the other civs and just hammered it out between the two of them lol, which would be a very smart strategic idea for warmongering civs who isn't having success dethroning another, but maybe this is already roughly what they do?

The layman's terms proposal then, if the above is desired, would be giving warmongers a higher threat evaluation for scientific, cultural and diplomatic VCs. This way they could proactively attempt to shut down rival victory conditions while building the strength they'd need for their own (domination).

 

[BiteInTheMark]

One question, can the mod influence, which civilizations are randomly picked, or is this a too basic game mechanic.
If it would be possible, it would be nice to use a (optional) balance option. Every nation is placed into 1 or 2 categories and the game picks a balanced number of civs out of every category.