MOO2Civ

[Agent327]

I was waiting for CIV Gold 5.0 myself, but with MinorAnnoyance update being available I couldn't in all good conscience delay any further. (And with patch4i reaching 1,000+ downloads, I figured it was about time.)

 

[Agent327]

I've added an alternate download for Patch4i Full Install: http://www.strategyinformer.com/pc/civilizationivbeyondthesword/mod/32279.html

(Link has been added to post #1 of this thread, as well as to the Download Latest Version thread of the MOO2Civ forum.)

 

[Agent327]

Patchf (that is the previous Full Install) is now officially at 5,600 downloads.

 

[Agent327]

I've added the alternate DL link to the Patch4i DL page as well.

 

[Agent327]

MOO2Civ patch 4i Full Install is now at 1,100+ downloads.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12437

 

[Agent327]

Patch4j is now at 100 downloads.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12703

Have started work on next patch.

 

[GeorgiaBoy]

Hi JEELEN,

I am a newcomer to Civ IV BtS, and was wondering if the Antarans have been implemented yet, as well as the Orion Guardian? I took a look through the postings--it was not too clear to me...

Also, any ideas on how the more exotic techs (time warp facilitator, evolutionary mutation, gyro destabilizer, transdimensional portal, etc.) are to be implemented?

Regards,

GB

P.S. From the way it looks, without heavy pythoning, it does not appear a custom Race is possible in BtS.

 

[Agent327]

Welcome GeorgiaBoy! You might want to take a look here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=323766 in the MOO2Civ subforum.

Orion and Antares haven't been implemented yet; especially Orion (+ Orion Guardian + Lothar) I am saving for a scenario, which is still some way off, as no models are as yet available for all MoO units. (So far I've collected about a dozen here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=325153.) Antarans currently still feature as Pirates/Barbarians, which can be just as threatening as in MoO, using difficulty level setting and Custom Game options. Some hints to increase the MoO feel of the mod are included on the database download page: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12437

The "exotic techs" you mention might be implemented as advanced promotions; with patch4i the promotion system has undergone already a significant overhaul, allowing the capture of enemy ships.

I've added a link to the patch 3.19 update on the latest Full Install download page.

 

[Minor Annoyance]

Hi JEELEN,

I am a newcomer to Civ IV BtS, and was wondering if the Antarans have been implemented yet, as well as the Orion Guardian? I took a look through the postings--it was not too clear to me...

Also, any ideas on how the more exotic techs (time warp facilitator, evolutionary mutation, gyro destabilizer, transdimensional portal, etc.) are to be implemented?

Regards,

GB

P.S. From the way it looks, without heavy pythoning, it does not appear a custom Race is possible in BtS.

Combat is a lot simpler in Civ4 than in any of the MoO games so there are some things that justice can't be done to. It's actually closer to MoO ground combat where your just comparing a list of modifiers to a random number. In MoO a +10 from troop armour was the same as +10 from a weapon or +10 from personal shield. There's no way to change damage done, or damage taken or hitpoints by themselves because they're all tied into the same number for unit strength and it's modifiers. There is still first strikes, withdraw etc. to work with and there are thing that can be taken from other mods, like FfH2's stoneskin could be armour and it's dragon slayer promotion (+50% vs. units with dragon promotion) could make for a shield piercing weapon.
Time warp facilitator should probably be the blitz promotions, and subspace teleporter would likely translate to immunity to first strikes. Gyro destabilizer doesn't really have anything equivalent on Civ.
Evolutionary mutation and custom races might not be as much of a pipe dream as you'd think. FfH2 has leaders with the adaptable trait, which allows them to change their traits periodically, so that has already been done by someone. One thing that would have to happen is breaking up MoO2civ traits into modular parts. At least two per race. As it is now each leader has one trait, their race. So the Elerian trait gives the Elerian promotion, which gives +20 attack +25 defence and telepathy. That would have to be broken up so they'd have three traits probably called Gunner, Piloting and Telepathic which each give a promotion with one of the Elerian abilities. That way if there was a way to have a custom race you could pick from those abilities and the other races. Evolutionary mutation would be easier since you'd just be adding one trait instead of picking a combination at the start.

 

[GeorgiaBoy]

Combat is a lot simpler in Civ4 than in any of the MoO games so there are some things that justice can't be done to. It's actually closer to MoO ground combat where your just comparing a list of modifiers to a random number. In MoO a +10 from troop armour was the same as +10 from a weapon or +10 from personal shield. There's no way to change damage done, or damage taken or hitpoints by themselves because they're all tied into the same number for unit strength and it's modifiers. There is still first strikes, withdraw etc. to work with and there are thing that can be taken from other mods, like FfH2's stoneskin could be armour and it's dragon slayer promotion (+50% vs. units with dragon promotion) could make for a shield piercing weapon.
Time warp facilitator should probably be the blitz promotions, and subspace teleporter would likely translate to immunity to first strikes. Gyro destabilizer doesn't really have anything equivalent on Civ.
Evolutionary mutation and custom races might not be as much of a pipe dream as you'd think. FfH2 has leaders with the adaptable trait, which allows them to change their traits periodically, so that has already been done by someone. One thing that would have to happen is breaking up MoO2civ traits into modular parts. At least two per race. As it is now each leader has one trait, their race. So the Elerian trait gives the Elerian promotion, which gives +20 attack +25 defence and telepathy. That would have to be broken up so they'd have three traits probably called Gunner, Piloting and Telepathic which each give a promotion with one of the Elerian abilities. That way if there was a way to have a custom race you could pick from those abilities and the other races. Evolutionary mutation would be easier since you'd just be adding one trait instead of picking a combination at the start.

Wow...maybe BtS could be more moddable than MoO3...Now I'm curious..I have an avalanche of questions:

So, could a racial pick screen at the beginning of the game be done reasonably?

How would BtS handle a transdimensional portal? In an ideal world, it would teleport to a new (preset) map...

Space Monsters?

Black Hole Generator?

Energy Absorbers?

Plasma Web?

Quantum Detonator?

Pulsar?

Lightning Field?

Spacial Compressor/Pulsar?

Stasis Field?

Cloaking device when one can attack?

Warp Dissipator? (prevents retreats)

Thank you very much for your time, Minor Annoyance.

GB

P.S. How about the Antarans as another race instead of barbarians?

P.P.S. How about Ascension Victory be converted to an 'Antaran X' ala MoO3? I know it is not MoO2, but MoO3 did have some good things...

 

[Minor Annoyance]

Wow...maybe BtS could be more moddable than MoO3

By far. MoO3 didn't have the source code released so it wasn't until Bhuric hacked it that code mods could be made and those mods never did half of the level of change that what many civ mods have done.

...Now I'm curious..I have an avalanche of questions:

So, could a racial pick screen at the beginning of the game be done reasonably?

Highly unlikely as I don't know of any mod that has added an extra set-up screen to the game. Fall from Heaven 2 uses the event system to bring up a choice of traits for your leader. So there probably couldn't be a point value for each trait and you pick to a certain value. More likely you'd have a few lists and you pick one trait from each. Or there could be another leader for each race that has part of the races standard abilities and you pick one more. Like a Mrrshan leader with just +20 attack and the +30 is on the list of options among other things or an Elerain leader with just telepathy (and not the combat bonus') and they pick another trait.

How would BtS handle a transdimensional portal? In an ideal world, it would teleport to a new (preset) map...

Impossible. People have barked up that tree before (The FfH2 team wanted it for a hell map.) and the game engine just doesn't support multiple maps. I think there's a mod for FhH2 that moves between an overworld map and an underworld map, but it's more of an adventure game with no cities and the maps are gone when you move to a new one.

Space Monsters?

They could be classified as animals and (like in FhH2) have the restriction on the age they can be generated in and entering cultural boarders removed.

Black Hole Generator?

FfH2 has a 'duration' counter for units so they disappear after several turns as well as a promotion to immobilize a unit, but that's kind of dull because in this game immobile units can't attack. Also, how would it be fired? In MoO1 it killed a large percentage of ships in a stack which would probably be easier to implement by making it a large collateral damage modifier. Or to make it so a ship with a BHG ignores the limit on how much damage can be done by collateral damage so things can be killed that way.

Energy Absorbers?

I've thought about this before. At the end of a battle (winning or retreating) you gain a promotion based on the base strength of the unit you were fighting. Like 10% for fighting something weak, 50% for around the same strength, and 100% for fighting something stronger. After the units next battle it loses the promotion and gains one based on the strength of the the latest unit.

Plasma Web?

The closest thing would be to give an opponent a promotion a FfH2 type poison promotion reducing healing ability, but that's not all that interesting. Also how would it be fired?

Quantum Detonator?

FfH2 has the exploding pyre zombies, so it would just be a matter of changing that from a unit ability to a promotion.

Lightning Field?

Probably just an increase in interception and missile defence.

Spacial Compressor/Pulsar?

This could be just like the pyre zombie effect but at the beginning of a battle and not destroying the ship. It would need a new visual effect though. When you spot a new resource in Final Frontier there's a kind of ripple effect around the tile and I thought that might make for a good visual effect for the pulsar. Also in the Age of Ice scenario, archers can damage all unit around them with the press of a button. That effect might also work.

Stasis Field?

I though of using the fear effect from FfH2, except have it work at random (rather than always).

Cloaking device when one can attack?

Stealth is used for withdraw currently

Warp Dissipator? (prevents retreats)

Could probably be easily done.

Thank you very much for your time, Minor Annoyance.

GB

P.S. How about the Antarans as another race instead of barbarians?

Barbarians get free units appearing out of nowhere, which is what Antarans did. Also they aren't considered dead if the have no cities or units. making them a real civ removes that in favour of I guess, being able to enter diplomacy. Doesn't really fit with them unless they were like the Grox from Spore. Or is there something I'm missing here?

P.P.S. How about Ascension Victory be converted to an 'Antaran X' ala MoO3? I know it is not MoO2, but MoO3 did have some good things...

That could probably be done just by renaming things, unless you have effects for each of the X's like on MoO3.

 

[GeorgiaBoy]

How about Transdimensional Portal which, with the right tech, allows the player to access a part of space normally inaccessible (surrounded by nebulas)?

These sound like really good ideas...

Three more questions (that's it--I promise!):

1) How would the Orion Guardian be implemented?
2) Could another nasty race be called in via random event? It was planned for MoO3, but got cut...Overall, are random events planned for this mod?
3) Is there a reasonable expectation these will be implemented in the mod?

I have done spreadsheet modding in D2 and MoO3 before, but would be of no help in Python and 3D modeling...

Again, thanks for the quick response...

Regards,

GB

 

[darkedone02]

I installed this mod and updated it, and it crashes when i try to run it. is this 3.19 compatable and windows vista?

 

[Arakhor]

If you installed the full mod and then the 3.19 patch, then it should be compatible with a full 3.19 BtS.

This is my vote for absolutely not having an Antaran X victory, because that was frankly lame. The Antaran Defeat from MoO2 suits the Ascension victory much more closely.

 

[GeorgiaBoy]

If you installed the full mod and then the 3.19 patch, then it should be compatible with a full 3.19 BtS.

This is my vote for absolutely not having an Antaran X victory, because that was frankly lame. The Antaran Defeat from MoO2 suits the Ascension victory much more closely.

True enough. Since the Ascension victory was available, I thought it could be converted to the MoO universe...Having it optional would be fine (but make it nigh on impossible is a must). If push comes to shove, it does not matter to me.

GB

P.S. Awaiting patch 4j full install! I just screwed up my install and decided to start from scratch...

 

[Minor Annoyance]

All victories can be turned off anyway.

 

[Agent327]

Thanks for answering (was asleep myself).

May I suggest the Things we'd like in MOO2Civ thread though: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=321752 (To keep track of things)

The MOO2Civ subforum also has a Next Patch thread. (Next patch will be 4k, BTW. Next Full Install will be released if sufficient changes warrant such a release. We now just have the 3.19 patch on top of the 4i Full Install.)

Patch 4i + 4j should work if installed correctly. (Instructions are clear enough, I think, and I run Vista myself.) The subforum also has a Bug/Error thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=321316 (Again, to keep track of things.)

 

[Minor Annoyance]

How about Transdimensional Portal which, with the right tech, allows the player to access a part of space normally inaccessible (surrounded by nebulas)?

It would be very difficult to have a map script make that, and even on a premade map it would be hard to get the AI to understand how to use a portal to move around the map.

These sound like really good ideas...

Three more questions (that's it--I promise!):

1) How would the Orion Guardian be implemented?

Python probably. It probably wouldn't be that hard (for someone who knew what they were doing) to place a unit on the map and have technology be given to whoever kills it. Having a specific planet under it would be harder.

2) Could another nasty race be called in via random event? It was planned for MoO3, but got cut...Overall, are random events planned for this mod?

I can't remember a nasty race that was supposed to enter mid-game in MoO3. Was it the Varakesh? Mizara? Polarid? Anyway FfH2 and revolution mod has civs entering mid game so it is possible.
As for events I had thought of adding in the events that were in MoO1 and 2 but when looking at them they seem uninteresting by civ4 standards. So I might go through the events of regular civ and convert them for Final Frontier first and then for civmoo if there were still changes to make. There are a lot of them so it could take a while and probably isn't as easy as just adding the word "space" to every sentence.
Example: A -civ name- passenger aircraft has crashed within -other civ name- territory. Neither side has provided any details of the incident.
Becomes: -civ name- passenger SPACEcraft has crashed within -other civ name- SPACE territory. Neither side has provided any SPACE details of the SPACEcident.
Also some just don't work. No forest fires in space.

3) Is there a reasonable expectation these will be implemented in the mod?

Depends on what people know how to do and if the have time to do it. I do plan to eventually try and have Darlok stealth coded without making them defenceless in their own colonies.Also I'd like to get to doing the MoO2 governments as civics that are free (in technology and upkeep) to their intended races but available to others. That would also lead to other race stuff since as it is now all humans have is their democracy so if that was available to others I'd have to get in their charismatic trait, and while I'm there I'd probably write in personalities for all the leaders (I noticed their Civ4LeaderHeadInfos.xml entries are all identical). But I'm playing MoO1 right now and then I'll be updating one of my maps for FfH2, then I'll be playing MoO2, then I'd update the other maps, them MoO3, and then I might get out the old game Deadlock and see if there's anyway I could make than into a mod. Also I have to update my global warming mod to 3.19. So there's that stuff I'll be doing it that or some order, which may or may not be before I do something on civmoo. I do plan to code more stuff for this at some point in the not to distant future.

 

[The_J]

Barbarians get free units appearing out of nowhere, which is what Antarans did. Also they aren't considered dead if the have no cities or units. making them a real civ removes that in favour of I guess, being able to enter diplomacy. Doesn't really fit with them unless they were like the Grox from Spore. Or is there something I'm missing here?

The barbarians are a civ, if you look at the CivilizationsInfos.xml.
They start as "minor civ", which is a civ, which can't enter diplomacy. You can change this also with a texteditor in maps, but there's no way to set that in python, but there's sure a way in the sdk.

I can't remember a nasty race that was supposed to enter mid-game in MoO3. Was it the Varakesh? Mizara? Polarid? Anyway FfH2 and revolution mod has civs entering mid game so it is possible.

I have 3 civs, which enter the game through a event, so if the code is needed...

 

[GeorgiaBoy]

I can't remember a nasty race that was supposed to enter mid-game in MoO3. Was it the Varakesh? Mizara? Polarid? Anyway FfH2 and revolution mod has civs entering mid game so it is possible..

Polarid was the one that was cut. Although it would be great to have all 'come visit'...

As for events I had thought of adding in the events that were in MoO1 and 2 but when looking at them they seem uninteresting by civ4 standards. So I might go through the events of regular civ and convert them for Final Frontier first and then for civmoo if there were still changes to make. There are a lot of them so it could take a while and probably isn't as easy as just adding the word "space" to every sentence.
Example: A -civ name- passenger aircraft has crashed within -other civ name- territory. Neither side has provided any details of the incident.
Becomes: -civ name- passenger SPACEcraft has crashed within -other civ name- SPACE territory. Neither side has provided any SPACE details of the SPACEcident.
Also some just don't work. No forest fires in space...

No forest fires, but an ionic storm?

Thanks for the info,

GB