More flexible civics changes through the U.N.

[Trade-peror]

Would it not make more sense to have the civics resolutions reflect the civics choices of the current secretary-general of the U.N.?

Since the U.N. is a tool for uniting the world under one vision, that vision should be that of the curent leader of the U.N. (the secretary-general), instead of some arbitrary vision as dictated by the U.N. of the actual historical reality.

Civ is an historical what-if game, isn't it?

 

[Equisilus]

I didn't vote, because my choice isn't there, but I'd rather the UN allow for votes on any civic as opposed to only certain ones. Not just the ones currently available, or the ones the leader uses, but any. I think it'd be fascinating if everyone voted for a police state, for instance, or slavery, and see what sort of effect that'd have on the world. I'd also like to have it available that civs that vote against (or abstain from) a passing resolution are somehow penalized diplomatically (-1 for all other civs that passed it) but that they get to keep their civics the way they want them. I find the idea silly that the UN can somehow force civs to change their civics. However, diplomatic consequences and trade barriers are more interesting and complex in their effects.

 

[Point13]

The UN can't but it can raise hell (like you said, in the form of the neg. diplomacy point)

 

[Trade-peror]

Voting for any civic was a choice I considered, but how would it be implemented? Every civ would just vote for the civic they currently use, and no resolution would ever pass. And should the resolution be lucky enough to garner enough votes, the other civs would not comply anyway, so the entire process would be useless as far as civics goes, and relations would only deteriorate.

Thus, the U.N. would do nothing but lead to global war (qutie ironic ).

But that is not to say that your idea is bad. It would only require that the AIs' voting behaviors change significantly.

 

[Adam7Eight]

Voting for any civic was a choice I considered, but how would it be implemented? Every civ would just vote for the civic they currently use, and no resolution would ever pass. And should the resolution be lucky enough to garner enough votes, the other civs would not comply anyway, so the entire process would be useless as far as civics goes, and relations would only deteriorate.

Thus, the U.N. would do nothing but lead to global war (qutie ironic ).

But that is not to say that your idea is bad. It would only require that the AIs' voting behaviors change significantly.

Actually, somebody modded the voting to include all civics. It actually worked rather well when I used it but I don't know if it's compatable with v1.52 . A civic would normally always pass, unless of course it's something totally useless like Barbarism. It's great having a choice whether you want Universal Sufferage or Representation that late in the game rather than being limited and stuck on one civic choice with the default UN. But like I said, I don't know if the mod is up to date or not.

 

[Equisilus]

Voting for any civic was a choice I considered, but how would it be implemented? Every civ would just vote for the civic they currently use, and no resolution would ever pass. And should the resolution be lucky enough to garner enough votes, the other civs would not comply anyway, so the entire process would be useless as far as civics goes, and relations would only deteriorate.

I don't think that's true, actually. There are only five civics in any category, and the first of each list is usually not something that someone would have by the time the UN rolls around. So with only four choices that would realistically be put forward for any category it's quite possible that a number of civs will already have your choice of civic. No different, really, than the current system. Afterall, I've had resolutions pass and have half or more civs change their civics to match the resolution, which means the most civs didn't have it in the first place.

Instead of having the vote determine a diplomatic negative (no or abstain), it could be solely linked to whether the civ accepts the resolution; they certainly can choose to go with the majority vote to avoid the diplomatic hit. Then, the civs that don't comply with the resolution would be the only ones that get the diplomatic relationship hit. That would be the beauty of the UN resolution system. Recall, this is near the end of the game, usually, so it wouldn't impact for a very long period of time.

Wouldn't it be great to also break from a resolution later (if you were one of the ones that voted yes) for a larger negative diplomatic consequence (-2 for every other 'yes' voting civ)? Not just for civics, but what about no nuclear weapons but then secretly build them anyway (for an even bigger diplomatic hit when a spy finds them out and tells all your friends!)?

Just thinkin'.

 

[jerx]

Equisilus

Re your reply, do you really think despotism or tribalism are really dead and not seem today?

I do agree with the rest of your post.

 

[Equisilus]

Equisilus

Re your reply, do you really think despotism or tribalism are really dead and not seem today?

I do agree with the rest of your post.

Nono, not at all. I just think that, in terms of the structure of the game, by the time the UN rolls around, most civs have moved to later civics in the list. Do many civs still use the first of the civics by that time?

 

[Trade-peror]

Well, if opening up all the choices has been demonstrated to work, then that is good news! I would support that (though I think the gameplay effect would be fairly similar to if the resolutions automatically reflected the secretary-general's civics, since the secretary-general selects which resolutions to vote on).

But the matter of diplomatic penalties, while logical and straightforward, still means that the U.N. would more likely harm, rather than help, global relations. I imagine the similarity of civics between civs would help relations, but that fairly limited benefit can hardly compete with the unlimited number of times minority voting and noncompliance can harm relations. Maybe that should be balanced out somehow.

 

[gakkun]

Voting for any civic was a choice I considered, but how would it be implemented? Every civ would just vote for the civic they currently use, and no resolution would ever pass. And should the resolution be lucky enough to garner enough votes, the other civs would not comply anyway, so the entire process would be useless as far as civics goes, and relations would only deteriorate.

Thus, the U.N. would do nothing but lead to global war (qutie ironic ).

But that is not to say that your idea is bad. It would only require that the AIs' voting behaviors change significantly.

No you're thinking along the lines of free-for-all 'every civ picks a civic they want to use' which is not what we are talking about here. We're talking about letting the Secretary-General have the choice of selecting any civic and asking each civ whether they want to to use that civic or not.

 

[Trade-peror]

I stand corrected. But usually that means the secretary-general will select the civics that he/she is already using, or plans to use. Would the gameplay effect therefore usually be similar to what would be achieved through automatically reflecting the secretary-general's civics?

 

[Glinka]

Actually, somebody modded the voting to include all civics. It actually worked rather well when I used it but I don't know if it's compatable with v1.52 .

It is. It's included in Sevomod, and I've been playing with it and the 1.52 patch for some time.

 

[Adam7Eight]

It is. It's included in Sevomod, and I've been playing with it and the 1.52 patch for some time.

Cool. I'll have to start using it again then.

 

[niffweed17]

I did try the mod using all the civics, but i got rid of it after the UN forced me to switch to despotism. in that mod, the AI secretary general will just select random civics, making such a change like that kind of game-ruining.

 

[Equisilus]

I did try the mod using all the civics, but i got rid of it after the UN forced me to switch to despotism. in that mod, the AI secretary general will just select random civics, making such a change like that kind of game-ruining.

Random civics are just pointless. A civ that makes a recommendation should have a reason for it. This can be based on where they are in terms of production, culture, research, etc, or where they hope to be. Randomly choosing civics is just sloppy and is only a facade of the sort of thing I'd like to see implemented, if the mod truly works that way.