more wonders in New Frontier Pass?

[Zaarin]

For Notre-Dame, as a French who spent a lot of time in Paris, I always thought Notre-Dame de Paris was cool and neat, sure, but to qualify it as a Wonder... It's a long shot. We have many more beautiful and impressive gothic cathedrals to have to put Notre-Dame de Paris (also, you have to precise Notre-Dame because it means Our Lady and there is A LOT of churches called Our Lady of Something), and the cathedral has her Flower Window (don't remember the english term) for her but I think that's all.

I'm inclined to agree. Notre Dame de Paris has a lot of name recognition value because of Victor Hugo, but there are better exemplars of the style. That being said, I'd still want a French Gothic cathedral as the style is generally regarded as having achieved its pinnacle in France (at least as far as exterior architecture goes--there are some English cathedrals that are magnificent on the inside, but you can't see the inside in Civ). I'm kind of partial to the cathedrals of Reims, Beauvais, or Metz. York Minster from England would also work. Notre Dame de Paris's biggest claim is that it's iconic.

St Peter's Basilica would make more sense

St. Peter's Basilica is Renaissance, not Gothic.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

For Notre-Dame, as a French who spent a lot of time in Paris, I always thought Notre-Dame de Paris was cool and neat, sure, but to qualify it as a Wonder... It's a long shot. We have many more beautiful and impressive gothic cathedrals to have to put Notre-Dame de Paris (also, you have to precise Notre-Dame because it means Our Lady and there is A LOT of churches called Our Lady of Something), and the cathedral has her Flower Window (don't remember the english term) for her but I think that's all. I mean, St Peter's Basilica would make more sense because 1) biggest church in the world and 2) center of Christianism, making it a true wonder by its size, its beauty and its historical meaning.

Everyone knows when they say want the Notre Dame as a wonder though it's the most famous one in Paris. All you have to do is google Notre Dame cathedral and it takes you to it, well at least in the states.
P.S. if you don't put cathedral in it just takes you the University in Indiana.

Also I wouldn't say that St. Peter's Basilica is the center of all Christianity.
That doesn't mean it doesn't deserve to be a wonder though.

 

[Zaarin]

Also I wouldn't say that St. Peter's Basilica is the center of all Christianity.

Yeah, Protestants and Orthodox Christians would definitely take exception to that statement.

 

[tedhebert]

I'd like to see the Sagrada Familia in too if we're going for modern ones

 

[Killer Rabbit]

I’d love to see Fallingwater, as a huge Wright fan! But guessing copyright makes that hard.

If not, something Art Deco would be great—maybe the Empire State Building?

And an exemplar of modern architecture would also be very fun—why not the Bauhaus?? I think it’s actually out of copyright and it was so influential. Would be so great to see!

(This is what happens when your dad is an architect.)

 

[jasper]

You cant just list off wonders that Notre dame could replace. You have to consider its theme not its fame or architecture. Hows norte dame going to replace a science, commerce, amenity or production wonder no matter how underwhelming they might be? It can only replace a religion wonder. Maybe a culture wonder but even then other wonders fit the culture theme better. Some podunk county museum would be a better fit as a culture wonder housing those pots and arrowheads.


These threads are always the same. People nitpick over arguable additions to the franchise. People flexing their wiki and paste skills.

 

[Zaarin]

You cant just list off wonders that Notre dame could replace. You have to consider its theme not its fame or architecture. Hows norte dame going to replace a science, commerce, amenity or production wonder no matter how underwhelming they might be? It can only replace a religion wonder.

Someone suggested the reason we had no Gothic cathedrals was because we had too many European wonders. It doesn't need to replace anything; it's simply overdue for being added--not Notre Dame de Paris specifically but a Gothic cathedral.

People nitpick over arguable additions to the franchise. People flexing their wiki and paste skills.

If you're not interested in discussing history and Civ, you're probably in the wrong place. It's kind of telling that you think people need "wiki and paste skills" to have a discussion about what they'd like to see in the game...

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

Also I wouldn't say that St. Peter's Basilica is the center of all Christianity.
That doesn't mean it doesn't deserve to be a wonder though.

Yeah, Protestants and Orthodox Christians would definitely take exception to that statement.

Yes but they need to know that they are WRONG WRONG WRONG (joking, of course; I'm a proud heir of the Revolution so I make no difference between religions, all being worthy of plundering and redistributing their wealth to the citizenzry, them being protestants, orthodoxs or catholics )

What I was saying is that Catholicism is the most prominent organized religion and Saint Peter's basilica is its center. It would make sense. Also, Catholicism is unique as a religion because I never saw any other religion pushing the bureaucratic academic stereotype as far as the administrative hell of bickering scholars that the Romans are.

I'd like to see the Sagrada Familia in too if we're going for modern ones

THIS is a wonder I want to see. Unique style, unique History, immediatly recognizable, and for now the only Spanish wonder we have is some archives. Nice archives, true, but still...

St. Peter's Basilica is Renaissance, not Gothic.

My bad, I need to revise my art history classes.

 

[Sostratus]

Surprised Gathering Storm didn't introduce a dam wonder. Being close to Hoover I'm partial to Hoover Dam, but lately the series goes with 3 Gorges Dam. But I think I would prefer the Modern era Hoover over information era 3 Gorges. Late game wonders such as that have little impact.

I think a dam wonder presents a mechanical issue. Where does it go?
The late game wonders would inevitably be desired up on rivers that already have dams. Does it plop over the current dam? What will graphics look like? (You could probably program a wonder that goes next to a dam, and then converts both tiles into a 2 tile wide dam, but man placement for graphics would suck!
I think this is why we got great bath- it simply comes sooner so there’s no issue.
You could have a lot of cool effects on a dam wonder, though.

 

[Buthera]

Would really love to see Shibam in some form, if I'm not mistaken I don't think there's any reference to Yemen in game except for Sana'a in Arabia's city list so it'd be nice to see it get more recognition. The Leshan Buddha deserves a look-in, too.

Sagrada Familia would be a great addition - perhaps once you've 'finished' building it, it remains under construction for a while afterwards and gives a large tourism boost.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Can we ask for natural wonders here too? The Grand Canyon remains conspicuous in its continued absence.

 

[Killer Rabbit]

Now that I think about it, of the ideas I mentioned above I actually like the Bauhaus the best.

It’s essentially the birthplace of modern architecture and the International Style that dominated the postwar period, and was also highly influential in industrial design as well. And the building itself is iconic.

Plus, we don’t have a building wonder from the German-speaking world (Ruhr valley is a bit of an oddball) and that would be nice to have. I’d much rather see it than Neuschwanstein or the Brandenburg Gate, but I’m also a huge fan of modernism.

Anyway, the more I think about it the more I like it. Not sure what the bonuses would be—maybe culture and tourism and something relating to production of modern era buildings?

 

[Bibor]

I wouldn’t mind national wonders seeing a comeback, but *not* in civ5 form.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I think a dam wonder presents a mechanical issue. Where does it go?
The late game wonders would inevitably be desired up on rivers that already have dams. Does it plop over the current dam? What will graphics look like? (You could probably program a wonder that goes next to a dam, and then converts both tiles into a 2 tile wide dam, but man placement for graphics would suck!
I think this is why we got great bath- it simply comes sooner so there’s no issue.
You could have a lot of cool effects on a dam wonder, though.

A great, non Modern, dam wonder could be the Great Dam of Ma'rib that could come at Engineering before regular dams do.

 

[blackcatatonic]

I'm inclined to agree. Notre Dame de Paris has a lot of name recognition value because of Victor Hugo, but there are better exemplars of the style. That being said, I'd still want a French Gothic cathedral as the style is generally regarded as having achieved its pinnacle in France (at least as far as exterior architecture goes--there are some English cathedrals that are magnificent on the inside, but you can't see the inside in Civ). I'm kind of partial to the cathedrals of Reims, Beauvais, or Metz. York Minster from England would also work. Notre Dame de Paris's biggest claim is that it's iconic.

I love York Minster so much!

I'd probably vote for Rheims if we are having another French one, though, because of the coronation significance, though as buildings Notre-Dame de Paris and Chartres are more iconic.

 

[Zaarin]

Can we ask for natural wonders here too? The Grand Canyon remains conspicuous in its continued absence.

It's a weird case of being so big that it's hard to depict well on the map. Plus, being perfectly honest, it's one of my least favorite "wonders" I've been to, despite its impressive size. But if we're talking about natural wonders, I will keep begging for Mt. Ararat/Little Ararat until Firaxis gives it to us. Out of all the gorgeous, amazing places in the world, I'm still mildly annoyed that Firaxis felt the need to give use a trio of fantasy natural wonders.

I love York Minster so much!

I'd probably vote for Rheims if we are having another French one, though, because of the coronation significance, though as buildings Notre-Dame de Paris and Chartres are more iconic.

I've never been to Europe so I've just had to enjoy photographs, videos, paintings, and my imagination. I suspect we'll get one of the more iconic ones because Firaxis, but I'd be delighted with either York Minster or Reims.

 

[earlofbrigand]

The Hagia Sofia in Constantinople.

 

[Zaarin]

The Hagia Sofia in Constantinople.

It's already in the game. Has been since release.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

It's already in the game. Has been since release.

Maybe he meant the second one that was in Constantinople and got burnt in the Nika Riots, and not the one built by Justinian located in present-day Istanbul.

 

[blackcatatonic]

I've never been to Europe so I've just had to enjoy photographs, videos, paintings, and my imagination. I suspect we'll get one of the more iconic ones because Firaxis, but I'd be delighted with either York Minster or Reims.

York University is my alma mater so I am lucky enough to know the Minster well. Lovely building, significant because of its size and political importance but also has some stunning medieval stained glass and the chapter house has great acoustics for concerts (went to an amazing performance of Spem in Alium there once which will live long in my memory).

At this point though almost any Gothic cathedral would be great! They are such wonderful buildings and almost every one has its own special little quirk or historical detail that makes it fascinating. It makes me sad that we presently have to make do with the Cathedral building which is just a bit meh.