Most useful wonders

[madscientist]

What are wonders people thrive for, ignore, or stategically get. Here are mine that I typically get or discussion

Usually get or try for
Oracle (for COL or metal casting)
Stonhenge (if my military is satisfactory and I am not cultural or found an early religion) usually in the same city as the oracle to max to great prophet points.
Pyramids (best wonder but rarely do I invest the needed hammers)
Great Library (almost always go for as teh AI is slow on teching literature)


Satue of Liberty (unless it's an archeopolego board)
Taj Mahal

Ones I usually don't try for
Parthenon
Temple or artmedes
Ankot wat
most modern wonders

Situational
Great Wall (If I am land locked with lots of jungle and AIs who are distanced away this worked once very well with HC, barbs terrorized the AIs for millenium while I sta back and built wonders for a cultural victory)
Spiral Monoret (obvious I need to plan to keep the religion)
University of skaret (whatever the name, see spiral minaret)
Great lighthouse (If I will have alot of costal cities)
Colossus (usually if I get metal casting from oracle AND if I have lots of costal cities)

 

[chrmarker]

Stonehenge I always try to get because its cheap, I dont have to build monuments in the other cities. Quicker border expansion is always nice in the beginning.

Pyramids I like to get so I can run Representaion for good early happiness and science boost. Its very expensive, so somtimes I skip it if I dont have stone, is industriuos, and lack trees to chop. Sometimes its better not to go overboard in the effort to get it.

Great Library is also a favorite because of the science boost wich I always seem to need.

Oracle I never get because my style of play do not take me down that tech route early on.

Collusus seems to be easy to get, dont know why the AI dont like to build it, but I usually get it even though I dont plan to. Its cheap and the extra commerce is always nice.

If the game drags on into the industrious age then I like to get The Statue of Liberty. My favorite civics is Rep/Mercentalism and the Statue fits nicely into that with its extra free specialist, science powered by Representaion.

 

[Sjaramei]

Pyramids, Great Library is probably the few wonders i still try for sometimes. (Got rid of my Oracle addiction) I never bother with Stonehenge anymore, if you play Charismatic leaders i think the happiness bonus goes away, so i kinda hate getting that wonder too soon.

Late game it doesn't matter anyway, but i try to get Statue of Liberty if i think i can get away with it.

In terms of impact i think Pyramids is the best one early on. The other ones can't compare at all

 

[futurehermit]

Always try for:

-Great Library

If I have stone:

-Pyramids
-Great Wall

If I have marble:

-GL
-ToA
-Parthenon
-Oracle (maybe)

Ones that I often get because the AI delays them:

-Parthenon
-The Colossus

Ones that I should get, but generally don't:

-Taj Mahal

Late game ones that I love to get if the game goes long enough:

-Statue of Liberty
-The Pentagon

 

[Jerrymander]

Pentagon.
And the Great Library.

BUT CHICHEN ITZA IZ DA BEST!!!11

 

[jackdog]

Agree that early pyramids is practically a must even without stone and generally get it even if it means missing stonhenge and oracle. But am reconsidering the missing the oracle strategy at the moment. after this I like Chichen Itza also. later on its just what is going and I seem likely to get, great library obviously important but for what ever reason my strategy often means I miss it. This is at prince level, getting Pyramids at monarch I think is much harder unless you are industrious or have stone, this is from very limited experiance though.

 

[futurehermit]

early skill levels, pyramids is easy and i would suggest going for it. even if you don't capitalize as much with the specialists (newer players tend to do poorly with MMing specialists), the additional helps a lot for newer players.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

The Parthenon is really good! I don't sem to get it very often though.
I always get the Eiffel Tower if the game lasts that long.
Space elevator if I can't get domination win.

Other than that, I try for the Oracle most of the time and always try and get the Great Library.

Pyramids are nice but I'm currentlly playing Monarch level and military is more important. Noble level or lower, I always try and get them.

If I have lots of coastal cities and my economy is bad I try and get the Colossus and Great Lighthouse. Colossus is cheap and if you miss either you get cash anyway.

 

[jerVL/kg]

BUT CHICHEN ITZA IZ DA BEST!!!11

Cute.

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- in my opinion, the BEST wonder is the Hanging Gardens. It gives you an instant +1 pop boost in all your cities, kinda like Insta-Grow for your civilization. Plus it gives you +1 in ALL cities, current and future, for the rest of the game. And it's my experience that health is much harder to come by than happiness. Also, it's fairly cheap to build (even w/o stone) and the AI rarely prioritizes it, so you can wait until all your cities are founded before building it.

The Great Library's also a great wonder to have in just about any situation. And like the Gardens, it's cheap to build, and easy to get since the AI tends to delay researching Alphabet/Literature. (Unless Hatshepsut is in the game -- she LOVES to build that wonder, for some reason!)

Pyramids? Very nice to have, but DAMN expensive to build. I rarely bother with it unless I'm Industrious AND have stone; usually I'll try to get it with the Oracle/MC slingshot instead.

Stonehenge is nice (unless you're Creative, in which case it's a waste) but it's my experience that you have to choose between it or The Oracle -- you can't have both. And The Oracle is a much more powerful wonder IMO; not just for the free tech, but preventing the AI from getting a free tech out of it. However, there's no point in building the Oracle unless you can get a really nice tech out of it -- Metal Casting usually, or Code of Laws, or (if you're really ambitious!) Civil Service, Philosophy or Feudalism.

Parthenon -- nice to have, but there's other more important Wonders to build. I think I've only built it from scratch once in my Noble+ games; otherwise, I'll rush it with a GE (if there's nothing else to build) or, even better, let the AI build it and take it by force.

On Archipelago maps (which I play almost exclusively) The Great Lighthouse is probably the most critical wonder to have -- I'll prioritize it over the Pyramids, or even the Oracle, if necessary! Colossus is also good, but goes obsolete much more quickly. But it's very easy to build, especially if you manage to get Metal Casting before the AI does (and often you can do so.)

I like the Hagia Sophia for its GE points, althought that's about all it's good for. Spiral Minaret's kinda weak, same with Sistine Chapel. Notre Dame's okay if you're lacking happiness (and have stone, since it's bloody expensive to build) but you can live without it. And Chichen Itza is beyond useless.

Late game wonders -- all of them, I guess. Statue of Liberty is very powerful even on Arch maps (you can get fairly largish islands with the "Snaky Continents" setting) and the Eiffel Tower is awesome. But my favorite wonder by far is the Three Gorges Dam. No logical reason...I just love that damn dam.

 

[yena]

Wonders I try to get:

1. Stonehenge to get at least one prophet. The money from a shrine is a huge boost in the early game. Border pops are nice too.

2. GL if you are philosophical, otherwise I wouldn't bother. I find pyramids too expensive.

The rest of the wonders come by accident (stray GE:s) or conquest.

 

[frob2900]

Pyramids are nice, 20% of the time I build them, 50% I capture them early game, 20% I capture them too late (end of renaissance).

Great Library is a given. The AI doesn't like Literature for some reason, and the drama/heroic epic path is very good in its own right.

I hate capturing the GL in a city where I just know there wont be much opportunity to boost the scientist generation rate with specialists.

Stonehenge is ace when industrious/blessed with stone, and when you just know there's going to be extensive pre-drama landgrabbing.



@futurehermit:

You often go for parthenon? Is that +50% Great Person generation rate up until chemistry really worth those hammers?

I'd rank the Oracle higher than Parthenon, simply because I hardly ever get Parthenon, but sometimes I decide for an oracle (metalcasting/CoL/feudalism) slingshot on marble starts and I usually get it. Then again, I might have misunderestimated the parthenon

 

[SnowlyWhite]

well, depends what you play(ind. or not), if you have marble/stone, if you get a good production capital(without it, not much hope for early game wonders) and so on.

Also depends on leader:

my fav. leader(hanibal): toa/lighthouse(ok, happens once in a million years on immortal, but at least lighthouse is usually doable). If cap. ain't costal, a few trees for stonehenge. After that, gl obviously. Parth if there's noone to bonk with your axes around, but that's already pushing it

if stone: hanging gardens and... hanging gardens. Only if a boatload of forest is around and I ain't financial, pyramids. And great library(that's probably the fav.)

if charismatic: stonehenge obviously... And the eternal great library...

if some marble: toa, parth; usually skiping oracle because I can't get a decent tech out of it(while I waste time with bw, masonry, mysticism, med, priesthood, worker techs and so on... usually too late even to grab pottery for mc)

always - great library;

Out of the late era ones... the dam, but usually game over till then.

You often go for parthenon? Is that +50% Great Person generation rate up until chemistry really worth those hammers?

for a se fan like he is, definitelly imho

 

[cabert]

I'm often wonderless, except when I go for cultural. Wonders are best captured.

I play 2 different sets of cultural game,
1)- the religious cultural game
2)- the artist's cultural game

1) I go for stonehenge, the oracle, lightbulb theology for a fast access to sistin chapel. That's it for world wonders. I try to put the national epic + globe theater in a food heavy city to avoid further Great Prophets.
2) If I have some reason to be wonder heavy (like having the resources or being industrious), I try to maximize artist wonders. I go for the parthenon, sistin chapel, notre dame and Taj Mahal. + I build the national epic and maybe globe theater there too. Since in those games, I rarely tech up to chemistry, the parthenon is really a good addition.

 

[Dirk1302]

I don't build much wonders, i usually try hard for the GL. I also try oracle, at least if it failes it gives some money at a time you need it most. I sometimes try others if i see an opportunity for it.

Isolated the collossus is a nice wonder to have, you have to build it early and
have some good coastal cities early though, astronomy is more important in the end and this cancels collossus.

 

[frob2900]

for a se fan like he is, definitelly imho

Hmm.. Well, I understand that futurehermit plays SE, and I'm not arguing that the Parthenon isn't nice to have, I'm just wondering about the hammer investment.

As a (trite numerical) example, assuming he's philosophical and runs caste system/pacifism and 5 scientists in the NE/GL city. The parthenon would be about 10 extra to the hundred or so being generated each turn.

Can't be much more than one extra great person in the pre-chemistry era under those conditions.

Compare that to the ten axes/catas from the same hammer investment. Those would virtually guarantee an extra AI city or two (or the corresponding land should you decide to raze them).

For a non-philo leader or when not running pacifism the effect would be proportionally greater. Perhaps that's when parthenon is most useful. Or perhaps it's possible to work the numbers to get two extra great people before chemistry.

I don't know, I hardly ever build it myself.

 

[Agent Cooper]

I always go for The Great Library to put in my science city.

Mostly I try to build The Pyramids + The Great Wall as well in the same city - usually the capital, if I haven't got a GE to use on The Pyramids. Sometimes The Hanging Gardens - mostly for the 2 GE points.

If I go the Oracle route, I almost always choose MC as the free tech and start building forge + The Colossus as soon as possible in a costal city (usually my only one at that time). When the caste civic becomes available, I run as many merchants in my Colossus city as possible to get 1-2 GM's during the rest of the game.

Beyond these world wonders, I usually only go after The Pentagon, Statue Of Liberty and Three Gorges Dam. In a recent Elizabeth game, I got 4 GE's out of my GE producing capital before my science city kicked into gear and started giving me GS's instead. 2 of the GE's were used to build 2 early wonders so I have 2 in reserve - probably going into building the Pentagon. I haven't finished the game yet. Anyway, that's how I like to use the GE wonders.

Although The Hagia Sofia wonder also grant GE points, I never build it. I find that wonder to be quite useless and beyond the start of the game, I prefer to get GS's instead + an ocassional GM/GA/GP/GE.

If I can spare the resources/time, I might go for some of the +% Great Person wonders, but usually not when playing as a philo leader.

 

[chrmarker]

Hmm.. Well, I understand that futurehermit plays SE, and I'm not arguing that the Parthenon isn't nice to have, I'm just wondering about the hammer investment.

I have often seen talk about SE/FE/*E
*= i cant remember all of them.

Is there some kind soul who will explain what it means

 

[frob2900]

I hav eoften seem talk about SE/FE/*E
*= i cant remember all of them.

Is there some kind soul who will explain what it means

Hmm, I have a feeling this is explained in detail somewhere. Lacking anything better to do, I'll do my best to explain it here. I apologize profusely to anyone who feels this explanation doesn't fit in this thread.

CE, Cottage Economy:
You build cottages on the tiles around the city. You then "work" these tiles, giving you one commerce point . Working it will slowly make the cottage change into a hamlet (2 commerce), then into a village (3), then into a town(4).

This commerce is converted into gold , science or culture depending on your slider settings.

You can also run civics such as "Free Speech", which gives +2 commerce to all towns (i.e. the cottages that have been worked many, many turns). The printing press technology also gives an extra +1 commerce in villages and towns.

Since you need gold, beakers and culture to buy, research and win cultural victories, the commerce provided by these cottages is the lifeblood of your civilization (together with hammers provided by mines, in order to build things). That's why it's called a cottage economy.

SE, Specialist Economy:
Instead of building cottages on the tiles around your cities, you build farms instead. You also build a library, forge or market in the city (or run caste system). You then work the farms, giving excess food to the city. This excess food allows you to leave a tile unworked, giving a "citizen" specialist. This citizen can be set to work as a scientist, artist, merchant, engineer or priest, depending on what buildings you have in the city (check the Civilopedia).

These specialists directly give gold, science, culture or hammers, irrespective of what's going on with the commerce in the city. You can therefore earn gold, conduct research or gain culture without having to generate commerce or adjust the research/culture slider.

Importantly, the specialists, like great wonders, generate great people points , which when surpassing a certain threshold will generate a great person.

These great persons are faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, and able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. They do all kinds of fantastic things (read the Civilopedia).

Getting great people is one of the main attractions of building farms and running specialists rather than building cottages (which generate commerce but no great people points)

FE, Farm Economy
I remember this being mentioned in SE/CE arguments. I'm not going to touch the definition of FE with a ten foot pole.


You can, of course, mix and match elements of an SE and a CE as you wish.
Have fun experimenting

 

[chrmarker]

Thank you very much frob2900. Very detailed explanation

 

[Dirk1302]

^Snaaty uses FE and has given a definition somewhere. As i understood it then:

FE resembles SE but,

SE relies heavily on specialists for commerce
FE (or TE) relies on growing the cities as big as possible, bribe other AIs into free market then enjoy the big income from trade routes in big cities. Use slavery to whip all the infra in, then win the space race. Of course once the cities have grown to their caps specialists help with commerce and research.

There may be much more to it, personally i find the distinction between SE and FE a bit artificial.