Moving on from Noble

[MrG]

Hello,

I've got noble cracked (I've won cultural, diplomatic, time, domination and conquest victories) generally by going along the beeline to alphabet route then backfill techs then earlyish war (or wars) until I have a lead in terms of territory (and usually gold).

Unfortunately this doesn't work on the level up (Prince) not to put too fine a point on it, I struggle with keeping up in military, tech and everything else, I'm not teh tech leader and its bugging me a touch.

So suggestions please on how to improve, I'm not miles behind, not getting backside handed to me on a plate, just unsure what advantages the computer is getting and want to know how to get round it.

Oh and I usually play Elizabeth.

ta

 

[Crenor]

Are you actually losing games or just getting behind other civs? Its ok if you don't have the largest military or if you aren't the tech leader. If you are going for space race, you can usually catch up to the other civs by making some good production cities and building the more expensive components quickly.

 

[xanadux]

Are you directly beelining to alphabet from the start? If so, that may be your problem.

Alphabet is the second important tech to get. The first is Bronze Working. Prince is pretty easy if you have any idea of running an economy and aren't horrible militarily. But you also have to know how to get off to a decent start.

BW is the key to a quick start. Try this ...

Research the 1 or 2 important worker techs you need to improve the resources you have. Build worker first. After the worker techs, research BW. Build a warrior, then start on a second worker. While you are waiting for BW to complete, improve a couple of your resource tiles with your worker. Then chop a forest to complete second worker, then use both workers to chop forests for a settler. After you have BW is the time to go for alphabet.

 

[MrG]

I pretty much always go

BW, wheel, pottery, writing, alphabet

Then backfill

With a warrior, settler, warrior worker, settler build order

 

[JujuLautre]

you should put more emphasis on workers. Both in term of production (Worker first is in the majority of cases a strong option), and research (research worker techs to quickly improve the terrain around you).

Also, going straight to alphabet can be done, but it should be more: do I need it? Sometimes, it's better to go after religious techs, after iron working, after calendar, after Code of Law... All depend of the situation you are in. Always going straight to alphabet is not good.

 

[xanadux]

Your build order is setting you back a bit. You are working unimproved tiles for a very long time. Building a settler at size 2 with 2 3 food tiles for example, you are only getting 5 production a turn on the settler. If those tiles were improved, (assuming food resource tiles, which you will more often than not have 2 of), you will be producing 9 production towards a settler at size 2. Chop a forest, and your settler doesn't come out much slower by going worker first, and all further production and growth is much quicker by working improved tiles. Getting your capital growing and its tiles improved is far more important than a quick second city.

 

[Cam_H]

Unfortunately this doesn't work on the level up (Prince) not to put too fine a point on it, I struggle with keeping up in military, tech and everything else, I'm not teh tech leader and its bugging me a touch.

For the first time you're playing at a disadvantage. The AI will get bonuses all over the place as you advance in levels in aspects such as; free starting units, very cheap unit upgrades, low inflation, better performance against Barbarians, and less war Weariness, to name a few. On the other hand while the AI gets bonuses, it's less easy for you; for instance your own cities hit their health and happness caps sooner making it tough to grow. You should expect to start from behind, but your job is to outwit the AI using better strategy and superior city management. Furthermore, the more you play, the more predictable the AI becomes.

Much of the 'goofy' AI behaviour however has been addressed in the Beyond the Sword expansion with the goal of delivering 'smarter' competitors with fewer 'artificial' advantages that act to handicap the player.

It comes as a point of discomfort for many players as they advance from Noble where it wasn't too difficult to have technological parity, if not technological leadership, to all of a sudden be outgunned by technologically advanced rivals.

I'd suggest digesting some of the 'demonstration' games here, such as Sisiutil's All Leaders Challenge series (although there are plenty of others). The Succession Games forum contains loads of games that you can follow, although typically are played at intermediate or advanced levels with unusual variants - therefore these may not be ideal 'trainers' but are typically very engaging. Nonetheless, you should see many examples of how you can take a game 'by the throat' even with significant disadvantages.

 

[MrG]

Thanks guys,

I've taken your advice and in a funny sort of constantly warring until about 500 ad sort of way, I've managed to get myself into a reasonable position, I'm now going for a domination win - the save is attached.

I listened to your advice, developed my first city a bit rather than going all out to found a second city and here are the results. Not I've had to change cottages to workshps in four cities because of the lack of a reasonable production city centre, so the production cities are Hitite, Cuzco, Nottingham and Hastings.

All I'll say is that I really struggled until I got to Code of law and was basically relying on booty from wars (with the Incan and Towagawa) to prop up my research.

I hope to complete a more "asthesically pleasing" victory soon.