"multiculturals"?

[Gori the Grey]

We're all "multicultural", in that we don't exist in just one single culture. Polish-Americans clearly belong to two different cultural groupings: Polish and American. They might also belong to Catholic culture, or have entered into baseball culture in some way. The idea that we're not all "multicultural" is crazy.

EDIT: xpost. Oh, well, yes I'm sure non-whites have a number similar enough life experiences that can be categorised as being particular to a common culture of some sorts. Most non-whites or immigrants at least identify with racism directed at other races, for example.

In the sense that they probably see themselves as "not-white", yes. They share non-whiteness. But it's probably not a defining characteristic most of the time.

Aaarrrggghhh. I'm not asking my question right. When a black, Hispanic or Asian American thinks of himself as having experiences that ally him with members of the other racial minorities, does he, in his own thinking, use the label "multicultural": "Boy, we multiculturals really have it hard trying to make it in this white-dominated US"?

 

[Mise]

No obviously not! I use non-white personally.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Ok, good. So this use of "multicultural" should strike me as odd. Thanks.

 

[Kyriakos]

My beautiful post got x-post /lost :/

 

[Gori the Grey]

It's nonsensical to me only insofar as it casts whites as "non-multicultural" or "monocultural". Which is crazy.

Well, this is part of my objection to this use of the term "multicultural." Remember, the article is skirting using the term or concept of race (even though the entities that make up this "multicultural" segment are what we usually call races and they're contrasted with what is usually a race). By itself, all well and good, because, as we know, race has no real validity. But using "multicultural" as a collective term for the three major non-white races/ethnicities, encourages one to retro-construct what would be its opposite: non-multicultural.

Part of why I'm raising this issue, and pressing this point, is that the article used "multiculturals" in this way in its headline. Within an article, you can (and this one does) define what you mean by the term. But using it in a headline presupposes that it already has a meaning. But I've never seen "multiculturals" used in this way.

Kyriakos, sorry for your lost kalos cross-post. But I don't think language use helps me solve this particular puzzle. No doubt language is crucial to culture, and no doubt even English-speaking minorities speak English in a way that will help them associate with their race/ethnicity. But, again, there's no dialect that all three--blacks, Hispanics and Asian-Americans--collectively speak with one another to distinguish themselves from whitey. So this grouping that the article is trying to forge still strikes me as forced.

 

[warpus]

The phrasing just struck me as odd, is all. Does any single person think of himself as a "multicultural"?

Not really, that doesn't make sense to me. To me a society can be multicultural, but not individuals. This whole "multiculturals" label that's being thrown around is just some jerk's way of saying "people who are not white like me", IMO.

I mean, you might as well call women and homosexuals as "multisexuals", since they're not hetero dudes.

 

[Kyriakos]

The phrasing just struck me as odd, is all. Does any single person think of himself as a "multicultural"?

Diogenes of Athens/Corinth. He claimed to be 'a citizen of the world'. But he was a troll anyway.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Not really, that doesn't make sense to me. To me a society can be multicultural, but not individuals. This whole "multiculturals" label that's being thrown around is just some jerk's way of saying "people who are not white like me", IMO.

I mean, you might as well call women and homosexuals as "multisexuals", since they're not hetero dudes.

Well, I don't know the race/ethnicity of the author of the article (and the article is reporting on a report for the music industry, and I don't know the race/ethnicity of the author of the report), but the tone of the report and article is celebrating the rise of multiculturals/polyethnics. So I don't think it's a jerk saying "people who are not white like me." Quite the opposite, it had the ring of "people who will soon outnumber you white folks, ha ha."

And, yes, the term strikes my ears as being as odd as "multisexuals." But it didn't strike some report-compiler's ears that way, and some journalist's ears that way, and some headline-writer's ears that way. I just needed CFC confirmation that it should be striking my ears that way, as odd.

 

[Borachio]

It does seem a little odd. But maybe in a couple of years time it won't, depending whether the term, and its use in this way, becomes widely adopted.

Language moves on.

 

[Gori the Grey]

It does seem a little odd. But maybe in a couple of years time it won't, depending whether the term, and its use in this way, becomes widely adopted. Language moves on.

I'm sorry, but your not the one to tell me language moves on: someone who's sig clearly indicates that he wants their to be brakes on usage-warranted developments in language!

 

[warpus]

Well, I don't know the race/ethnicity of the author of the article (and the article is reporting on a report for the music industry, and I don't know the race/ethnicity of the author of the report), but the tone of the report and article is celebrating the rise of multiculturals/polyethnics. So I don't think it's a jerk saying "people who are not white like me." Quite the opposite, it had the ring of "people who will soon outnumber you white folks, ha ha."

And, yes, the term strikes my ears as being as odd as "multisexuals." But it didn't strike some report-compiler's ears that way, and some journalist's ears that way, and some headline-writer's ears that way. I just needed CFC confirmation that it should be striking my ears that way, as odd.

I should have been clearer, I meant that the first couple people who started using the term "Multiculturals" were white guys who wanted a quick/non-offensive? way to say "people who aren't white like me". "Ethnics" is another similar term that I've heard thrown around.. i.e. "Ethnic food", whatever that means.

Maybe this whole "multiculturals" label is just accepted in some places to call non-white people *shrug*. It sure isn't used where I live, it comes off as silly and potentially offensive.

 

[Mise]

It sounds patronising to me.

 

[Borachio]

I'm sorry, but your not the one to tell me language moves on: someone who's sig clearly indicates that he wants their to be brakes on usage-warranted developments in language!

Hmm. Well...

There's a fine line to tread between linguistic creativity and natural progression, and downright chaos, I think.

 

[Gori the Grey]

It sounds patronising to me.

It's wrong in all kinds of ways, most of which have come out in this thread (I have one or two more to raise).

But I think it has a surface plausibility. We're so used to talking about a multicultural society, that I think it seems a short step to label the groups that make that society multicultural (not whites, of course, because, as Narz pointed out early, whites don't have "culture") "multiculturals."

So because it's plausible but misguided, I think it must be fought against, as any other encroaching linguistic chaos your worried about.

 

[warpus]

Some people just seem to think that there is a heterogeneous "white culture" out there that is the "vanilla" or default setting. So anything other than that has to be labelled as something else, if that's how you choose to look at the world. That's why we end up with "ethnic restaurants", and all that other nonsense.

 

[Narz]

It's wrong in all kinds of ways, most of which have come out in this thread (I have one or two more to raise).

But I think it has a surface plausibility. We're so used to talking about a multicultural society, that I think it seems a short step to label the groups that make that society multicultural (not whites, of course, because, as Narz pointed out early, whites don't have "culture") "multiculturals."

So because it's plausible but misguided, I think it must be fought against, as any other encroaching linguistic chaos your worried about.

I didn't say whites didn't have culture, I say mainstream America doesn't have culture (besides media & holidays which are pretty much media-hijacked anyway). If you're from anywhere in the world but adopted by 3rd generation parents you don't have ulture either. If you're 1st or 2nd generation you may have some culture. If you're non-white (or a white person who's distinct looking - say Italian or Jewish looking) you may have culture assigned to you from a young age by society.

 

[Kyriakos]

Some people just seem to think that there is a heterogeneous "white culture" out there that is the "vanilla" or default setting. So anything other than that has to be labelled as something else, if that's how you choose to look at the world. That's why we end up with "ethnic restaurants", and all that other nonsense.

Pretty sure you meant 'homogenous'

 

[warpus]

Haha

whoops..