Multiplying Great General Points

[xanadux]

So in Civ, almost all bonuses are cumulative, not multiplicative:

Bank: +50% bonus,
Wall Street: +100% bonus,
The bonuses are summed, giving a 150% bonus, giving 2.5x base gold total (you start with your initial 1x, and get 1.5x in bonus). If they were multiplicative, it would be 1.5 x 2.0 = 3x base gold total.

But in the current EE game I am playing, I noticed a case where bonuses multiply.

Great Wall: 100% bonus to great general emergence for battles in cultural boundaries
Imperialistic: 100% bonus to great general emergence.
And when I fought my first battle, in my borders after building the Great Wall, my axeman earned 3 exp, but I got 12 Great General Points! The bonuses multiplied. Instead of getting a 200% bonus cumulatively for 3x GGP, they multiplied for 4x GGP.

I got the first Great General after only 3 battles.

I can't think of anything else in the game that behaves this way. The only thing close is the Bureaucracy bonus. Is there something about Great General mechanics that causes these bonuses to multiply?

 

[madscientist]

Interesting. The GW also works on the entire ocean, so I have gotten alot of GGs from Privateer action for Imperialistic leaders.

Bumps up the Imp trait a bit if that is true, especially Cyrus and his charismatic trait.

 

[popejubal]

Great Wall + Imperialistic and Bureaucracy commerce bonus are the only two bonuses that stack multiplicatively.

All other bonuses stack additively.

That's especially nice for the Ikhanda, but still just fine for most purposes.

Since ships can now get the Blitz promotion, moving troops out of a coastal city and Great Generalizing the Privateer or Destroyer can be a great bargain if you have a naval tech lead (and invest in a bunch of Drill promotions). Very nice with Imperialistic.

 

[KMadCandy]

Interesting. The GW also works on the entire ocean, so I have gotten alot of GGs from Privateer action for Imperialistic leaders.

oh! that's what's going on, thanks! i sometimes get more points than i thought i would for naval battles and i couldn't ever figure it out, must be in the games i have the great wall. i'd worked out that altho it doesn't protect you from barbs in your waters, it does work there. i didn't realize it worked in the whole ocean. nifty!

 

[Gliese 581]

In the whole ocean? You mean inside cultural borders? It seems like a bug if it's everywhere..

 

[Theoden]

In BtS the modifiers for espionage are also multiplicative (except for the different religious ones who are added and then multiplied as a whole). It came as quite a surprise for me, as I'm used to the addi(c)tive nature of civ, but OTOH if they were additive you could get a reduction in price by more than 100%...

 

[Gwynnja]

How do you check how many Great General Points have accumulated?

 

[Veggiehater]

How do you check how many Great General Points have accumulated?

You can see this at the bottom of the Military Advisor screen.

 

[obsolete]

Interesting. The GW also works on the entire ocean, so I have gotten alot of GGs from Privateer action for Imperialistic leaders.

Bumps up the Imp trait a bit if that is true, especially Cyrus and his charismatic trait.

Well, if the GW worked 100% on the entire ocean, then why in God's name won't it keep the barbarians out!?

Come to think of it, I don't know if this is patched yet, but I noticed countless times before, I do NOT have open borders with other AI's, yet they had no problems sailing into my waters. Yet if I try to do the same to them, I'm forced to declare war first. What gives?

Lastly, privateers, why would someone build any? I built them ohhh all but twice. And they were immediately sunk by my friends/vassals as soon as they got one ocean tile out of the gate.

I just can't think of any use for a unit that has no life expectancy and is even targeted by those who you are not at war with.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Come to think of it, I don't know if this is patched yet, but I noticed countless times before, I do NOT have open borders with other AI's, yet they had no problems sailing into my waters. Yet if I try to do the same to them, I'm forced to declare war first. What gives?

Caravels have super powers.

 

[madscientist]

Lastly, privateers, why would someone build any? I built them ohhh all but twice. And they were immediately sunk by my friends/vassals as soon as they got one ocean tile out of the gate.
.

Use of Privateers.

1) Build them before the AI has astronomy and chemistry. Do not bother if they have both.
2) Use privateers to harass backwards AIs on another continant. Sometimes even pre-optics. Sinking alot of Galleys can get you several GGs without having to declare war on anyone.
3) Send Privateers in pairs, one promoted up the drill path to attack galleys/caravels and the other up the combat line to ward off Galleons and maybe even frigates.
4) Use privateers to blockage an AI port. This will get you anywhere from 2-4 gold per turn depending on the city size. This is stealing gold from the AI, which helps you but weakens them.
5) They are entertaining.

 

[iamnleth]

The Bureaucracy bonus is really multiplicative? Seriously? So, if you're running Bureaucracy in your capital with 40 commerce, and it also has a bank, a market, and a grocer, it doesn't get a bonus of +150% commerce to make a total of 100 commerce (an additional 60)?

 

[madscientist]

The Bureaucracy bonus is really multiplicative? Seriously? So, if you're running Bureaucracy in your capital with 40 commerce, and it also has a bank, a market, and a grocer, it doesn't get a bonus of +150% commerce to make a total of 100 commerce (an additional 60)?

Your 40 commerce becomes 60 commerce. Then building multipliers occur, so you would be getting 120 beakers if your science slider was at 100% assuming you have an academy, a library and a univeristy. It's not 50% to gold, or beakers, or espionage, or culture.

Hammers are additive. 40 hammers get you 70 hammers if you have bureacracy and a forge, not 75.

 

[LlamaCat]

Lastly, privateers, why would someone build any? I built them ohhh all but twice. And they were immediately sunk by my friends/vassals as soon as they got one ocean tile out of the gate.

I just can't think of any use for a unit that has no life expectancy and is even targeted by those who you are not at war with.

Speaking of Great Generals, Privateers give you GG points without having to declare war on anyone. Huge benefit.

 

[KMadCandy]

Speaking of Great Generals, Privateers give you GG points without having to declare war on anyone. Huge benefit.

yup. i only build them when nobody else has the astro/chem combo yet, so that they have a bit of life. even if it's only a short one, they're cool upgraded to destroyers since they get free sentry. in worlds where i'm first to astro/chem, privateers typically get me my first GGs of the game, since i don't tend to go to war early. GGs without pissing anybody off are so spiffy!

 

[MyOtherName]

GGs without pissing anybody off are so spiffy!

More accurately, GGs without anyone knowing you're the one they're angry at.

 

[KMadCandy]

hahaha excellent point! i was thinking more about the red diplo modifiers that clash with my hair, but i bet they aren't pleased.

 

[obsolete]

Alright, just as I figured. Now if someone could show me how to make use of a privateer on deity someday, then maybe Firaxis won't have to fix such a broken unit.

And actually, there are quite a few of things that are multiplicative. Everything from Beur. HAMMER bonus, to Representation Bonus.

 

[popejubal]

Alright, just as I figured. Now if someone could show me how to make use of a privateer on deity someday, then maybe Firaxis won't have to fix such a broken unit.

And actually, there are quite a few of things that are multiplicative. Everything from Beur. HAMMER bonus, to Representation Bonus.

The bureaucracy hammer bonus is additive.

If you have a +75% bonus to production in your capital without Bureaucracy, it becomes a +125% bonus when you switch to Bureaucracy.

Even the commerce bonus from Bureaucracy is only accidentaly multiplicative because it is applied at a different step than the research, cash, culture and espionage multipliers.

As far as I can tell, only the espionage cost reductions for spy missions, Great General points from Imperialist and Great Wall and Bureaucracy commerce bonus.

 

[KMadCandy]

Now if someone could show me how to make use of a privateer on deity someday, then maybe Firaxis won't have to fix such a broken unit.

well sure! first you lightbulb your way to astronomy... *notices name of poster* ... oops!

*giggle*