cubsfan6506
Got u
by the way im not afraid of size when we have gallics.
Mump2 - AWDG Standard Pangaea
- Thread starter Mumpulus
- Start date
cubsfan6506
Got u
Ibt: Golden Age ends. Ottoman archer attacks ALesia (and dies. 1,0). One more Spear in Allehegany.
Ottoman horseman moves outside of Alesia.
turn 1. Ottoman horse outside of Alesia gets bombarded twice succesfully. Settle city near wines.
Move workers onto wines. We no see a hitetean warrior. Alleghany falls but their is a yellowish civ near by so I raze
the city and fall back. Two spearman are destroyed. (3,0). I attack a wounded Ottoman horseman outside of Alesia. (4,0)
Outside of ebourum a spear is bombarded. But it is on a mountain so I don't attack. Upgrade a Entremont warrior to a
gallic.
IBT: Ottamans offer peace i accept. JK. A ottoman archer atacks a warrior of ours we win. (5,0). A horse finishes the job.
(5,1)
Turn 2: Research of Mysticism Complete begin work on the wheel. I pursue Iroqois spear and archer into their territory. Both
are killed. (7,1). We move our army outside of Salmanaca. Gallic swordsman kills a ottoman horse. (8,1). By the way the ottomans.
Control 10% of the world. Wines connected to the roads.
IBT: Ottomans are building Statue of zues.
Turn 3: Salamanca fall not i forgot to add in the kill ratio here so im tacking them on to the end of turn 5.
(14,2) (15,2) (16,2)
Turn 4 Mauch Chunk is assaulted pme spearman killed (9,1). Dutch galley sails past us which means
war.
IBT Warrior assaulted by ottoman horses. (9,2) Dutch archer lands near agendecinum.
Turn 5:
Both the ottoman horse and the archerare killed. (11,2). Mauch CHunk falls and three workers are captured. (12,2).
Cataractonium is settled on settle point # 1. Iroqouis spearman killed on wines. (13,2)'
IBT: Ottoman offensive continues on to Agendicium Two horses.
Turn 6: wheel Complete. I move troops outside of Grand Rapids and it looks like the dutch are coming that way. Twp horseman
are killed outside of Agendicum. (18,2)
IBT:
Turn 7: Army takes Grand Rapids all by itself. (21,2). Also we failed to take Catagarus. One gallic dead one retreated.
(21,3). I raise Kawnawakee. (22,3)
IBT The dutch land behing Mauch Chaunk with two archers against our warrior.They also show a strong hand in the east.
Turn 8. One spear is killed at long iroqouis name city. (23,3.) One ottoman archer is killed. (24,3)
Ibt: Dutch capture Mauch Chaunk. Also they have a medievel city graphic.
Turn 9: I kill 3 spearman. (27,4) NO more time. Note turn not finised.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101788/Cubs_2.SAV
Ottoman horseman moves outside of Alesia.
turn 1. Ottoman horse outside of Alesia gets bombarded twice succesfully. Settle city near wines.
Move workers onto wines. We no see a hitetean warrior. Alleghany falls but their is a yellowish civ near by so I raze
the city and fall back. Two spearman are destroyed. (3,0). I attack a wounded Ottoman horseman outside of Alesia. (4,0)
Outside of ebourum a spear is bombarded. But it is on a mountain so I don't attack. Upgrade a Entremont warrior to a
gallic.
IBT: Ottamans offer peace i accept. JK. A ottoman archer atacks a warrior of ours we win. (5,0). A horse finishes the job.
(5,1)
Turn 2: Research of Mysticism Complete begin work on the wheel. I pursue Iroqois spear and archer into their territory. Both
are killed. (7,1). We move our army outside of Salmanaca. Gallic swordsman kills a ottoman horse. (8,1). By the way the ottomans.
Control 10% of the world. Wines connected to the roads.
IBT: Ottomans are building Statue of zues.
Turn 3: Salamanca fall not i forgot to add in the kill ratio here so im tacking them on to the end of turn 5.
(14,2) (15,2) (16,2)
Turn 4 Mauch Chunk is assaulted pme spearman killed (9,1). Dutch galley sails past us which means
war.
IBT Warrior assaulted by ottoman horses. (9,2) Dutch archer lands near agendecinum.
Turn 5:
Both the ottoman horse and the archerare killed. (11,2). Mauch CHunk falls and three workers are captured. (12,2).
Cataractonium is settled on settle point # 1. Iroqouis spearman killed on wines. (13,2)'
IBT: Ottoman offensive continues on to Agendicium Two horses.
Turn 6: wheel Complete. I move troops outside of Grand Rapids and it looks like the dutch are coming that way. Twp horseman
are killed outside of Agendicum. (18,2)
IBT:
Turn 7: Army takes Grand Rapids all by itself. (21,2). Also we failed to take Catagarus. One gallic dead one retreated.
(21,3). I raise Kawnawakee. (22,3)
IBT The dutch land behing Mauch Chaunk with two archers against our warrior.They also show a strong hand in the east.
Turn 8. One spear is killed at long iroqouis name city. (23,3.) One ottoman archer is killed. (24,3)
Ibt: Dutch capture Mauch Chaunk. Also they have a medievel city graphic.
Turn 9: I kill 3 spearman. (27,4) NO more time. Note turn not finised.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101788/Cubs_2.SAV
Mumpulus
King
Cubsfan, well played, I think: there are some things that are not clear to me from your report...
Questions
The future
Looks like we made good progress on the Iro front with five towns taken. At this point I'd divert the army to some other target (the Ottos sounds nice) and get some GS to patrol the Iro lands. I can't tell from Cubsfan's log how many settlers were built, but no matter what we'll need more
.
We want to start keeping Iro towns, but we'll need spears for that (from the reports it sounds we were very thin (warriors defending and all)).
Research towards Monarchy first now, and keep research high. I'd switch Richborough to HE now, before we waste shields, and have at least one town building a lib at all times.
I'll post a screenshot at lunch time (in a few hours), unless someone else on the team or a friendly lurker could do that...
Roster
Mumpulus
Own - Up (please play 11 to even out)
nerovats - On deck
Mizar
ThERat
cubsfan6506 - Just played
Questions
- Are the Dutch the yellow civ, or are they someone else still (standard Dutch color taken by Otto)?
- I guess Salamanca was where I thought it would be?
- What did you do with the upgraded unit in Entremont? Upgrading costs us a lot of money, and should only be done in extreme cases of emergency IMO.
- On the IBT after turn 1, a warrior of ours is attacked. Where was that? Why was a warrior exposed?
- Did the Dutch galley appear near Mauch Chunk or Agendicum?
- What did you build?
The future
Looks like we made good progress on the Iro front with five towns taken. At this point I'd divert the army to some other target (the Ottos sounds nice) and get some GS to patrol the Iro lands. I can't tell from Cubsfan's log how many settlers were built, but no matter what we'll need more
.We want to start keeping Iro towns, but we'll need spears for that (from the reports it sounds we were very thin (warriors defending and all)).
Research towards Monarchy first now, and keep research high. I'd switch Richborough to HE now, before we waste shields, and have at least one town building a lib at all times.
I'll post a screenshot at lunch time (in a few hours), unless someone else on the team or a friendly lurker could do that...
Roster
Mumpulus
Own - Up (please play 11 to even out)
nerovats - On deck
Mizar
ThERat
cubsfan6506 - Just played
Mizar
IM
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2007
- Messages
- 356
I looked at the save and have a few comments.
Research should be set to Poly and we need libs.
There is a persian archer which may have appeared on the last IT from the fog so we must declare.
Good work on destroying the Iro core but Grand River is way too far and we are thin on defense on a broad front. I totally agree with Own here, lets not overstretch.
We should expand south to get the southern first-ring cities improved and generally expand the core, getting more productive cities.
Research should be set to Poly and we need libs.
There is a persian archer which may have appeared on the last IT from the fog so we must declare.
Good work on destroying the Iro core but Grand River is way too far and we are thin on defense on a broad front. I totally agree with Own here, lets not overstretch.
We should expand south to get the southern first-ring cities improved and generally expand the core, getting more productive cities.
Mumpulus
King
Agreed, switch to poly immediately, and set research to 100% to get in 5 at -4gpt right now. Monarchy after that.
There's a settler sleeping in Burdigala, evidently built from Lugdunum.
I'd move the GS army to raze Cattaraugus, move the wounded GS in Grand River under cover and abandon Grand River. Play defense with single units east and build towns to fill up the lands like crazy. I'm not so sure pushing south from our core is that important right now: lack of improved tiles is probably due to no work invested.
Six towns are building regular units. There are a lot of MM opportunities.
Our army is weak to no-one, and strong compared to a few, so I think we can handle our big front. It'll be more important to found lots of towns IMO.
The west:
The center:
I highlighted a Persian border at the bottom. I think we can take a chance and attack the two horses, or at least the one on the forest. I'd still prioritize a road on the Alesia forest(s)
The east:
I highlighted Dutch borders.
There's a settler sleeping in Burdigala, evidently built from Lugdunum.
I'd move the GS army to raze Cattaraugus, move the wounded GS in Grand River under cover and abandon Grand River. Play defense with single units east and build towns to fill up the lands like crazy. I'm not so sure pushing south from our core is that important right now: lack of improved tiles is probably due to no work invested.
Six towns are building regular units. There are a lot of MM opportunities.
Our army is weak to no-one, and strong compared to a few, so I think we can handle our big front. It'll be more important to found lots of towns IMO.
The west:
The center:
I highlighted a Persian border at the bottom. I think we can take a chance and attack the two horses, or at least the one on the forest. I'd still prioritize a road on the Alesia forest(s)
The east:
I highlighted Dutch borders.
ThERat
Deity
I agree that we should stop going after the Iro's. They are hurt sufficiently. Let's expand south and go after Ottoman, they seem a bigger threat and mustn't ever get sipahis, else we are doomed.
I would abandon those easternmost cities and expand properly with defenses.
How many turns have we invested in the latest tech and which did we go after. I thought we all agreed to beeline to monarchy anyway
Mumpulus
King
I thought so too, but evidently Cubsfan missed that. And I'm guessing he forgot to switch after the wheel came in, so 2 turns have been invested. No harm done on the Wheel, we'll have to research that eventually anyway, and I think we'll survive the two wasted turns on MM.
Edit: We have quite some gold, so I guess the Iroquois have some money. We'll be able to sustain max research for a long time, although unit costs will soar when we become monarchs.
Edit: We have quite some gold, so I guess the Iroquois have some money. We'll be able to sustain max research for a long time, although unit costs will soar when we become monarchs.
I have it, and will play today. I agree with ThERat, the Iro are no longer a threat, and no land we take will be productive, so continuing to attack them takes our attention off of the more powerful ottomans and stretches our front. So I'll establish some suitable defense and send our forces down to the Ottomans.
If you just judge from the minimap, it may appear as though this game is going downhill. It was, but late in the turnset, there was a turning point (probably because of an MGL). All the lost cities were abandoned when about to be captured, they weren't productive and they aren't a big loss. We should resettle that spot imediatly.
Pre - turn - First move is obvious, I declare war on Persia. MM a lot. Why the hell are some units automated?!
Switch to Polytheism, research it max, due in 5. Kill an Otto horse outside of Alesia [1-0]. 1 elite victory.
Switch lots of regular unit builds to walls / rax.
1. GS kills horseman [2-0]. 2 elite victories. Augustrodum worker > cat.
IBT- I'm surprised that a persia archer attacked a random spear guarding workers, but it did and lost [3-0].
2. Alesia grows, MM it. There are a lot of Dutch units. Send some GS over there to help combat them.
IBT- Lots of Dutch units move in on Salamanca and Cataracium.
3. Camulodunum spear > gs. Alesia gs > gs. Bombardment near Cataragus is finally succesful, take the city.
[4-0]. Pop rush walls in Grand river, army leaves to do some killing. Kill 3 Dutch archers with the army. [7-0].
GS kills spear [8-0].
IBT- Lose a spear and a GS to attacking archer and horse respectively, but also take down an archer and horse.
[10-2].
4. Some killings, now five elite victories so far [14-2]. Switch Entremont to settler, we need to keep expanding.
Grand river walls > settler.
IBT- Army kills two archers on defense in a city, elite GS kills hittite archer on D. [17-2], 5 1/2 elite victories.
Poly > monarchy. Switch Richborough to HE.
5. Pop rush walls in Salamanca. Entremont settler > GS. Some killings [21-2]. 6 1/2 elite victories. Switch Alesia
to spear to escort settler.
IBT- Kill archer and lose spear on defense [22-3]. 7 elite victories.
6. Salamanca walls > settler. Alesia spear > gs. Found Lapurdum. GS retreats from wounded spear. Fully
healed GS loses to archer
[22-4]. Another GS finishes off the spear.
IBT- Damn it! Elite spear in Salamanca wins, leader generates, then the Persians take the city. [27-5].
7. This game is falling apart. I decide we need to slow down the Dutch, so I send the fully healed army to go
attack. Richborough HE > GS. Kill a spear and horse, abandon undefended Cattaragus. [29-5].
IBT- Nothing much
8. I decide to pass on attacking the Hague, as it's on a hill, and pillage it's tiles instead. I'm going straight
for Amsterdam. Kill three, get an MGL! [32-5].
IBT- Ancient cavalry of Ottos kills spear [32-6].
9. Found Ritae Coritanorum. Rizasomething rax > GS. Camul GS > GS. Abandon Grand River, too likely
to be captured with 6 archers outside. Kill some, lose a fully healed vet GS attacking a horse on plains. [35-7].
IBT- Kill an archer [36-7].
10. Georgova cat > cat. Army kills two defenders in Amsterdam. Some other killings [42-7]. Send GS army
pillaging to either Persia or Ottos, whichever is closer.
IBT- nothing
11. Build some GS and a cat. Raise Sidon (one of Persia's horse sources).
Kill two archers. Final kill count is [45-7].
On to the next better player...
Pre - turn - First move is obvious, I declare war on Persia. MM a lot. Why the hell are some units automated?!
Switch to Polytheism, research it max, due in 5. Kill an Otto horse outside of Alesia [1-0]. 1 elite victory.
Switch lots of regular unit builds to walls / rax.
1. GS kills horseman [2-0]. 2 elite victories. Augustrodum worker > cat.
IBT- I'm surprised that a persia archer attacked a random spear guarding workers, but it did and lost [3-0].
2. Alesia grows, MM it. There are a lot of Dutch units. Send some GS over there to help combat them.
IBT- Lots of Dutch units move in on Salamanca and Cataracium.
3. Camulodunum spear > gs. Alesia gs > gs. Bombardment near Cataragus is finally succesful, take the city.
[4-0]. Pop rush walls in Grand river, army leaves to do some killing. Kill 3 Dutch archers with the army. [7-0].
GS kills spear [8-0].
IBT- Lose a spear and a GS to attacking archer and horse respectively, but also take down an archer and horse.
[10-2].
4. Some killings, now five elite victories so far [14-2]. Switch Entremont to settler, we need to keep expanding.
Grand river walls > settler.
IBT- Army kills two archers on defense in a city, elite GS kills hittite archer on D. [17-2], 5 1/2 elite victories.
Poly > monarchy. Switch Richborough to HE.
5. Pop rush walls in Salamanca. Entremont settler > GS. Some killings [21-2]. 6 1/2 elite victories. Switch Alesia
to spear to escort settler.
IBT- Kill archer and lose spear on defense [22-3]. 7 elite victories.
6. Salamanca walls > settler. Alesia spear > gs. Found Lapurdum. GS retreats from wounded spear. Fully
healed GS loses to archer
[22-4]. Another GS finishes off the spear.IBT- Damn it! Elite spear in Salamanca wins, leader generates, then the Persians take the city. [27-5].
7. This game is falling apart. I decide we need to slow down the Dutch, so I send the fully healed army to go
attack. Richborough HE > GS. Kill a spear and horse, abandon undefended Cattaragus. [29-5].
IBT- Nothing much
8. I decide to pass on attacking the Hague, as it's on a hill, and pillage it's tiles instead. I'm going straight
for Amsterdam. Kill three, get an MGL! [32-5].
IBT- Ancient cavalry of Ottos kills spear [32-6].
9. Found Ritae Coritanorum. Rizasomething rax > GS. Camul GS > GS. Abandon Grand River, too likely
to be captured with 6 archers outside. Kill some, lose a fully healed vet GS attacking a horse on plains. [35-7].
IBT- Kill an archer [36-7].
10. Georgova cat > cat. Army kills two defenders in Amsterdam. Some other killings [42-7]. Send GS army
pillaging to either Persia or Ottos, whichever is closer.
IBT- nothing
11. Build some GS and a cat. Raise Sidon (one of Persia's horse sources).
Kill two archers. Final kill count is [45-7].
On to the next better player...
Mumpulus
King
I haven't read your turn log yet, but judging from the maps, we're not doing bad at all. A lot of empty land, a few new towns, and the Dutch core threatened. I'm sure we're still in good shape...
Edit: read the turn log now... my comments:
Judging from the presence of ACav in Own's turns, and after checking F7 on the save, that should have read "Ottomans finish Statue of Zues"? Although the turns don't seem to match the date shown on F7...
Please take the following as constructive critisism:
Own has held on to the eastern towns for a while before abandoning, while Rat and I at least agreed they should have been abandoned immediately. We'll never know what the net benefit or loss has been of doing it another way, and in any case, I still think we're doing ok. But I would prefer a little more focus in the future, and striving towards the goals that are agreed upon for the set. I think this start can be won now, but it will be a lot harder if big mistakes are made. I'm not saying mistakes have been made so far (who's to say what's right and what's wrong in a game like this), but I think everyone would feel more comfortable if we could decide on a well though-out game plan for each turnset and then have the player execute the plan to highest possible fidelity.
Edit: read the turn log now... my comments:
Cubsfan said:
Judging from the presence of ACav in Own's turns, and after checking F7 on the save, that should have read "Ottomans finish Statue of Zues"? Although the turns don't seem to match the date shown on F7...
Please take the following as constructive critisism:
Own has held on to the eastern towns for a while before abandoning, while Rat and I at least agreed they should have been abandoned immediately. We'll never know what the net benefit or loss has been of doing it another way, and in any case, I still think we're doing ok. But I would prefer a little more focus in the future, and striving towards the goals that are agreed upon for the set. I think this start can be won now, but it will be a lot harder if big mistakes are made. I'm not saying mistakes have been made so far (who's to say what's right and what's wrong in a game like this), but I think everyone would feel more comfortable if we could decide on a well though-out game plan for each turnset and then have the player execute the plan to highest possible fidelity.
ThERat
Deity
let's use the eastern army to pillage Dutch into stone age while we raze their capital. Would it be possible to us the other army to take out some Ottoman core towns? Or at least pillage them to death as well
Mumpulus
King
I edited my post above...
Roster
Mumpulus
Own - Just played
nerovats - Up
Mizar - On deck
ThERat
cubsfan6506
Roster
Mumpulus
Own - Just played
nerovats - Up
Mizar - On deck
ThERat
cubsfan6506
Completely agree here.
With that said, I think our next imediate goal should be to cripple the dutch by taking their capital and pillage either the Persian or Ottoman core, while we leaderfish with our remaining GS.
We are stretched really thin here. I lost those 7 units because I had to take some risks to protect cities or resources. We should try to solidify our defense a little, so maybe a core city or two should switch from settler to GS. When we don't have to take risks to defend our cities, our kill efficiency should improve. In high level AW games, you have to find the right balance between expansion and military. I lean slightly for military because we are about to cripple two of our main opponents, but until that happens they're very strong and will require much more manpower to handle.
Mumpulus
King
After looking at the save, here are my thoughts:
@nerovats: please recheck everything carefully, because I may also have missed some things in my list above.
- We are employing 3 tax collectors. Switching just one to a scientist reduces research time on Monarchy by a turn. In general tax collectors are worse than scientists.
- Entremont can grow in two if Alesia gives it the cow. Alesia doesn't need growth that badly.
- Cataractonium has an Iroquois citizen And the whipping penalties have been transferred to this town...
- Move an MP from Richborough to Alesia to employ another non-clown specialist.
- Camulodunum can also use another MP to employ a citizen and produce settler a turn sooner.
- Richborough is building a regular unit.
- I now notice that Cubsfan had a slave irrigate a grassland at Verulamium
- Augustodurum can donate its BG and the corrupted shield that comes with it to Lugdunum, where they can use the BG to effect.
- I'd switch Eboracum to a cat. Stronger enemy troops are inbound, we'll need some more cats soon...
- @Own and Cubsfan, I see no mention in your reports of attacks on Burdigala. There are 3 cats sleeping there, so I tend to think that there were attacks, but they weren't mentioned in the reports. Attacks seem to focus on our flancs, not our center. Is that a good assessment? If there were no attacks, I'd switch the walls there to a cat as well, and send the cats to attack Mauch Chunk. Also, MM in Burdigala is not optimal.
- The Japanese are proud owners of Hittite workers.
- @Own, the Dutch have two of our cats. Where and when did that happen?
- After Monarchy, we should head for CoL, and start courts; corruption is rampant...
- The furs forests should be chopped and mined asap, and my yellow dot town founded.
- There are two workers stacked, building a road at Augustodurum
@nerovats: please recheck everything carefully, because I may also have missed some things in my list above.
Mumpulus
King
Own said:
I propose to go for the Ottos; they are stronger according to our military advisor, and we want to render them ivoryless.
Own said:
I wouldn't switch away from settlers unless absolutely necessary. We desperately need another expansion boost. From the looks of it, we can hold on for a few more turns with the units we have, and the next settlements will not extend our front.
I joined an iro worker there because there were some mined and roaded BG to be put to use, I didn't know it carried whipping penalties.
Yeah, I thought about changing it but the slave had so much invested in it I couldn't.
Yes, there were attacks there, I just didn't specify. Attacks have been focused on our flanks more. Sorry about the MM in Burdigala, I checked every city pre - turn and when they're about to grow or build something, I must have missed that (probably because of enemy units stepping on tiles and messing up the citizens).
That happened when a GS and two cats in a former Iro city got attacked, I had to raze it to let the GS escape.
Your questions clearly call for a more detailed and specific log, so that is what I'll do next time around
.Mumpulus
King
I believe this game will be won without much difficulty... Here's the run-down:
The Japanese and Zulu are unmet. With the resource distribution so far, I fully expect them to have all.
All in all, just one dangerous opponent at this point, so we have the option of concentrating on them. By the time we have contained them, the Dutch will have grown a bit, but then we can focus on them. When both the Ottos and the Dutch have been "processed", we'll be the strongest civ overall, and can start clean-up with Cavs Or am I being to optimistic? IMO we just have to get at the Ottos fast, and the keep the nearby civs from iron or horses.
I don't think whipping penalties are carried by workers, they just get transfer automatically to a nearby town when abandoning. But merging slaves is generally not a good idea in AW, for two reasons: (1) the fact that slaves have no unit support is more important than the fact that they work more slowly IMO; (2) the merged citizen will always give unhappiness.
Edit: also, Cataractonium is hopelessly corrupt for the time being, so no gain there. Next MGL should rush the FP there I think.
- The Dutch have 11 towns, we can "see" the location of 8 of them. I think they should be our next target for a razing campaign. But we won't have time for that for a while... They lack iron.
- The Iroquois have four towns, all visible. Their overseas settlement may well be a one tile island; in any case, I don't think we will be eliminating them for long time. But no worries, just keep them in check.
- The Persians are weaklings. They have only 8 towns, no iron, and we still have Lit on them.
- The Hittites also lack iron and are probably at war with the Japanese. They have a long way to go to get to us.
- The Ottomans have all resources, have the SoZ, and are generally in the lead. They should be our next target for a pillaging and selective razing campaign, and should come before any other offensive action. When we've contained them a bit, we can go for the runner-up Dutch.
The Japanese and Zulu are unmet. With the resource distribution so far, I fully expect them to have all.
All in all, just one dangerous opponent at this point, so we have the option of concentrating on them. By the time we have contained them, the Dutch will have grown a bit, but then we can focus on them. When both the Ottos and the Dutch have been "processed", we'll be the strongest civ overall, and can start clean-up with Cavs
Or am I being to optimistic? IMO we just have to get at the Ottos fast, and the keep the nearby civs from iron or horses.Own said:
I don't think whipping penalties are carried by workers, they just get transfer automatically to a nearby town when abandoning. But merging slaves is generally not a good idea in AW, for two reasons: (1) the fact that slaves have no unit support is more important than the fact that they work more slowly IMO; (2) the merged citizen will always give unhappiness.
Edit: also, Cataractonium is hopelessly corrupt for the time being, so no gain there. Next MGL should rush the FP there I think.
Mizar
IM
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2007
- Messages
- 356
ThERat
Deity
very good analysis Mumpulus.
I think since one army is currently at Amsterdam, might as well raze that city and pillage on the way down to Ottoman's land. Maybe we can snatch the SoZ from them.
I do not quite understand why in so many games the taxmen versus scientists comes up when clearly taxmen are ALWAYS worse when running max science. Scientists give 3 beakers vs 2 from taxmen. In the last turn before acquiring the tech, the slider can be turned down and money gained that way.
As for abandoning cities, this is bad if the enemy whipped the city as unhappiness gets transferred to a nearby city.
I think since one army is currently at Amsterdam, might as well raze that city and pillage on the way down to Ottoman's land. Maybe we can snatch the SoZ from them.
I do not quite understand why in so many games the taxmen versus scientists comes up when clearly taxmen are ALWAYS worse when running max science. Scientists give 3 beakers vs 2 from taxmen. In the last turn before acquiring the tech, the slider can be turned down and money gained that way.
As for abandoning cities, this is bad if the enemy whipped the city as unhappiness gets transferred to a nearby city.
