Mump4 - AWD Standard Pangaea

IBT- An Indian reg MDI kills an elite spear in walled Corinth [0-1].

6. Just kill a French archer, and ping some units with bombardments [1-1].

IBT- Kill an Indian and lose to an Indian :rolleyes: [2-2].

7. Wines are hooked up. Kill two Greek archers. Lux doesn't go down because Berlin grew. Kill a French archer [5-2].

IBT- Sigh... 2 hp french archer attacks our archer in the open field and kills it. [5-3].

8. Berlin sword > sword (I forgot to mention a lot of builds, don't worry, we're building more than this). Leipzig sword > sword. I kill 2 French archers and a spear [8-3]. Position armies so one is next to Grenoble and one is next to Besancon.

IBT- Nothing

9. Nuremburg rax > sword. Kill two spears in Grenoble siege but there is still a redlined archer left [10-3]. Kill two spears in Grenoble and make rocks because it's placement is bad, it's pop 6, and it's too close to the Greeks. [12-3].

IBT- :mad: Lose an elite spear in walled Leipzig to a vet archer, then lose an elite sword in the same town to a reg archer. Then another 5 or so french archers die on that city. An Indian sword dies on Corinth [18-5].

10. Berlin sword > sword. Konigsberg cat > cat. München worker > cat. Heidleberg worker > cat. Uh oh, all of a sudden we have three more contacts. Korea, Persia and the Dutch, I declare war on them. Grenoble is captured after killing two archers [20-5].

Mump4_350BC.JPG


I still don't think that the game can be won, but as long as we keep expanding we have the theoretical chance of capturing the GL.
 

Attachments

Given that France is next to Tundra, taking it out first will give us the shortest front line. I think I would try to expand in that direction. France is also weak - they are sending archers. I bet we could capture their towns.

However, getting 3 new contacts is going to mean things will get really rough. We probably won't be expanding and just hoping to survive.


For the GLib,
Problem is of course that Korea has been spotted south. This is not good because we can't expand that way easily at all.
Also the GLib is in the Capitol which means the most defenders.
Two armies may eventually be able to kill off the units in Seoul, but sending them off now will mean they are not there when the initial rush of 3 civs hits us. If we wait and defend they will have Muskets and an Army may die before the town is taken.

I think this means that going for the GLib is too much for us and we will have to live on our own current techs.

Therefore we are back to trying to take out France and keeping the front shorter. If we get lucky there is a short front to befound somewhere. I think it the only thing that could save us at this point.

Perhaps one Army up in France (lets capture not raze) and one defending and getting ready for the other 3 civs? Likely the will come from the southeast. Don't make it too far away as it may suddenly need to hurry back for more defense though. (I think the more likely scenario is we can never get either Army free. It is very hard to do when under heavy attack).

Agree with own on our chances, but it is not a clear loss yet so lets see where it goes.
 
We gotta get 2 armies working on France. They're the easiest target by far, and we have enough swords to keep the Greeks and Indians at bay. We could use some more cats and workers. After the French are finished, I guess we go for the Greeks. In a millenium or so we'll have knights, and if the AIs don't have infantry by then, we'll still have a small chance of winning.
 
As long as we're not facing cavalry, I'd go with one army for defense. We should try to make some room for ourselves by going for Knossos and Delphi first though, and found more towns of our own. We could use a third army and the pentagon. Expansion towards the French seems fine then. I think we can hold in the south if we use the terrain to our advantage.
 
Preturn: Looks like it will be a rough ride - well that is not a suprise. I switched a sword in 10 to a Cat. I think I want more of those.
Definitely agree we are unlikely to win this - Knights will bring us down.

330 BC: Get a Leader on our third Elite Attack. Decide to go for the 3rd Army - could go for FP. That means 2 more towns with us having 1 settler already. I switch Capitol to one next turn.

For tech... Not sure what. HBR I guess if we can get the Horses from Greeks. Consider heading for Monarchy, but unit cost would strangle us. Not sure we can afford the Anarchy period either.

310 BC: Get Workers under Army Back. Build the town of Horse Attempt. I think I need an Army down there to take out Heraklea, so one army will be heading there. The other will investigate France since it is on their borders. Settler is sent off to settle.

IBT: It will be a short game if it continues this way: A Regular Horse is victorious vs a Cat Bombard and an Elite Sword fortified in our new town. Unfortunately it is in a place we cannot afford losses. Leo completes.

290 BC: Kill an MDI pest from india. Army is near Tours but I want to attack not across river, so moving around city. Other army has to hold to set up 12 city (settler in place).

270 BC: In that same town that lost the Sword vs the Horse, another sword cannot kill a 2 HP Archer on the hill and dies.
We do build the new town (but I mistimed the connecting road, darn it - was a foreign worker short) and get our 3rd Army.
With the extra 2 town unit support, I can get HBR a turn earlier by raising Science to 50% at -4 gpt only.

250 BC: Kill first Spear in Tours. Army heading South to deal with Heraclea. France has tons of Horse which are being a bother.

IBT: Greek are fighting someone. I thought their movements odd. This civ isn't seen, but attacks Heraclea.

230 BC: Another Leader gets us the Pentagon. I could have also chosen the FP.
Tours has built a Pike. Decide to take a detour and disconnect it from the rest of France so no (more) Pikes.

We got HBR. Decide to go for Lib so we can get our cheap Libraries to boost science sooner.

210 BC: Tours Disconnected along with Rouen.. Army to the south kills first Hopolite in Heraclea. Dutch have 3 Sword and Spear near Heraclea and are obviously the ones at war with them.

IBT: Copernicus completed! Heraclea falls to Dutch. Dutch Knight spotted

190 BC: Get Another Leader! Awesome leader luck this turn. I rush the FP in the newest town which I rename to Glass Palace (FP) - If i kept the old name and added FP then we would have another city by that name, so a unique name seemed better. Why did I choose that town? It most needed a border expansion and it isn't next to our Capitol, and I could build it immediately. Mostly want the FP for reduced corruption.
Second Army sent after Tours. Science dropped to 40% as unit cost is up again.

IBT: Dutch land a Knight up north. Dutch and Greeks fight.

170 BC: Bombard Knight and kill it. Kill some more French units. Greece is now distracted from us by the Dutch and it occurs to me we haven't seen any new units from India. AI wars might be rampant and are probably keeping us alive now.

IBT: Lose Spear to Horse and another to an Archer. With Iron France becomes a real Danger. First French Knight shows up. Fails to kill a Spear in Grenoble (retreats).


150 BC: Armies near Tours are healing. They are fortified and still have their movement.

Notes:
I would use the third Army to take out the Greek towns. Maybe another army could join them to help after Tours falls. Glass Palace will get a border expansion that Delphi will block.

I think AI wars are saving us at the moment. If they last long enough to take out some of France we have a better chance.

It just occurred to me that I probably didn't cut the Iron to Tours because Rouen has a Harbor (Duh!). I believe Tours just built the Injured Knight, but Rouen could build one too.

I tried to spend more care than usual to the MM, though I missed some things. We should continue this as I think we need it to win.

See pictures for additional notes.

Mump4_BC150.jpg


Mump4_BC150a.jpg
 
lurker's comment: This is a great game so far. Well worth the price of admission. I'm here to learn and you guys are great teachers. :goodjob:
 
Excellent play Own and Greebley. :goodjob:

The south seems interesting for us to set up defense. Is that salt water 3SE of Horse Attempt? If the Dutch are fighting the Greeks, and the Indians are also busy elsewhere, I'd concentrate on the French first, capturing Tours and Rouen. After that fill up the north with our own towns while taking on Knossos and Delphi (with 4 unit armies, that should be easier now).

I think perfect MM is indispensable in this game.

Roster
Mumpulus - on deck
Own
Elephantium
Greebley - just played
glenmetz - up
 
Our military advisor deems us strong compared to Greece, Korea, and France, average to the Dutch and Indians, and weak to the Persians. The Koreans have lost units to the Persians. The Indians have two Iroquois workers, which probably indicates war too.

French culture isn't much better than ours, so we can indeed keep their cities. I am a bit worried about flips to the Greeks though. They have our culture times five.

Persia is clearly the top dog and Korea is in trouble. They are down to 5 cities. Greece has 7 and France 9. India is at 10, Netherlands at 14 and Persia at a staggering 18. We have 12 cities currently.

After taking Tours, I'll try to send one army south to meet with the third army and get to work on the closest Greeks cities. On defense, I'm hoping we'll see larger numbers of units from the Dutch only, and not too many from the Indians and Persians. I spot a Dutch border next to the Korean one in the south, not sure it was there before.

0) 150BC
I put Berlin back to 15spt. I move a cat to the vicinity of Berlin in anticipation of a Greek landing. Hire an extra scientist in Leipzig and shave a turn of literature.

IT
No landing at Konigsberg, could be heading for empty München. Greek archers seem to be headed in the Frankfurt/Corinth direction. The Dutch take a Greek city; we can just see the new borders southeast of HorseAttempt. Tours and Rouen have lost 1 pop each.

Leipzig: Settler > Spearman
Grenoble: Walls > Catapult

1) 130BC
We have contact with the Iroquois.

mump4_iroquois.jpg


eSword kills French archer. [1-0]

We have a few swords on defense, so I switch Frankfurt and Nürnberg to spears. Settler in place.

IT
3 jumbos (reg, vet, elite) move onto the forest between Nürnberg and Glass Palace. A French archer and horse die on our vSword and eSword covering the settler. Greeks and Dutch exchange some units as expected. An LB moves out of Knossos and lots of archers move in. If they continue towards the Dutch next turn, Knossos will be a ripe target. The galley turns around without dropping anything. A (fresh?) Dutch galley appears from the south, and a French one from the north. [3-0]

Berlin: Swordsman > Swordsman
Konigsberg: Catapult > Swordsman
HorseAttempt: Walls > Catapult
Nürnberg: Spearman > Spearman

2) 110BC
Found Bremen, start on walls.

Ping one of the elephants, and put 4 units in the two towns that they can attack.

Armies kill pike, spear and redlined knight, and
mump4_tours.jpg


Start walls there as well. All three citizens are resisting. I move the army out and leave Tours empty for now. Maybe the French will kill some of their unruly citizens for us. [6-0]

IT
One of our vSpears actually kills an elephant and promotes, we loose a spear and sword against the other two, but they are both redlined. [7-2]

Hamburg: Spearman > Spearman

3) 90BC
Rouen has shrunk yet again and is only size 1 now, without visible culture. I therefore postpone action against it, and move the healthier army in that area towards the Greeks now, picking up its fourth unit along the way. The roads towards Glass Palace are only accessible from the French side now.

I decide not to attack the elephants because I don't have two attackers ready anyway. There are cats in place to bombard next turn. Kill a hoplite in Knossos, ending up with an army that's insufficiently healthy to continue the attack. [8-2]

IT
A French archer kills our rSpear covering a roading crew; our workers are moved. The injured jumbos move away unfortunately, and 3 substitutes are on their way. The Greeks seem to be going for us again, and some Dutch pillagers show up as well. I hope their war isn't over. [8-3]

Literature is in, start on Philosophy in 4.

Berlin: Swordsman > Library
Leipzig: Spearman > Settler
Frankfurt: Spearman > Spearman
Glass Palace: Walls > Barracks

4) 70BC
Army kills the French archer and we recuperate our workers. [9-3]

IT
The Indians capture empty Tours, but only after their elephants moved in that direction too. A French horse dies on our vSword covering our roading crew. The Dutch and Greeks are coming straight at us now. [10-3]

Hamburg: Spearman > Library
Heidelburg: Catapult > Catapult

The Indians are building Shakespeare's Theater. The Koreans seem to have lost another city to the Persians.

5) 50BC
Army kills an elephant in Tours. I decide to go for Rouen with some swords, to speed up progress there and hopefully free up the army for defense against those elephants. [11-3]

IT
Our eSpear in Glass Palace retreats an elephant.

München: Catapult > Catapult

6) 30BC
2 eSwords kill 2 spears in Rouen. At Tours, I have to pillage a road that is valuable to us, to make sure Grenoble can't be reached by too many elephants. I then move the army into Bremen to defend. At least 3 elephants and 1 French knight and 1 French horse are in range to attack it.

At Glass Palace, 2 vSwords kill redlined elephant and LB, one promotes. Cats take out a road to reduce exposure of our troops.

Army kills 2 hoplites in Knossos, but an LB remains. I don't let the second army attack because there are 3 LBs and 5 archers around Knossos. I do commit cats and swords for next turn. [17-3]

IT
We loose 3 eSwords and 1 eSpear to elephants, all outside cities. The Persians land a musket at München, the Greeks an archer and a warrior. [17-7]

Berlin: Library > Swordsman
Nürnberg: Spearman > Spearman

7) 10BC
Kill LB and archer and
mump4_knossos.jpg


3 vSwords kill 3 LBs, 1 promotion; army kills 2 archers.

At Bremen, army kills 2 WEs. I try to cover towns as much as possible, but we may loose the game during the next IT. Grenoble, Bremen, München and Glass Palace are seriously threatened. [26-7]

IT
At Bremen, a spear retreats a WE, then dies to the next one. Our remaining sword then kills a French knight but finally succumbs to a second one, and Bremen is razed. A catapult is captured. At Glass Palace, our vSpear kills an elephant. The French and Dutch are at war. A Greek LB dies on an eSword, and the archer at München dies on our *Archer. [30-9]

Philo is in, start on CoL in 8.

Hamburg: Library > Swordsman
Konigsberg: Swordsman > Swordsman

8) 10AD
Army kills 2 French knights and recaptures our catapult.

At Knossos, vSword kills archer. At Glass Palace, vSword kills LB. [34-9]

IT
In and near Glass Palace we loose a spear and sword to elephants. A French knight barely kills an eSpear in Grenoble. Korea has lost another city and we can no longer see their borders. They have only 2 left, so the Persians will be arriving soon. [34-12]

Berlin: Swordsman > Swordsman
Leipzig: Settler > Spearman
Frankfurt: Spearman > Spearman
Grenoble: Catapult > Catapult
Heidelburg: Catapult > Catapult

9) 30AD
vSword kills landed Greek warrior. vSword kills French spear that was wandering around aimlessly (didn't even capture workers it could have). Army kills hoplite and moves into Nürnberg to defend. Near Knossos, eSword kills LB. [38-12]

IT
We loose 1 sword and 2 spear to WEs (one of them generates a leader), our warrior defends against a redlined French knight in Grenoble. The French are at war with the Persians too. [39-15]

And then it's game over:
mump4_corinth_deposes.jpg


Hamburg riots.

10) 50AD
Loose a 3hp vSword on a 1hp WE. Army finishes him off. [40-16]

> Save <
 
I think I made a mistake letting the AI retake Tours because it extended our front with the Indians. On the other hand, if they hadn't taken that detour via the north, they probably would have gone straight towards Berlin.

The AI wars helped us a lot, but the Indians clearly made peace with whoever they were fighting, and those elephants are just too much. Add to that the French getting iron and horses, you get the picture. It's only a matter of (probably a very short) time before the Persian defeat the Koreans, and they're probably close to cavalry by now (and they control the SoZ and KT). In the end we didn't see much from the Dutch though.

I'm still not sure this isn't doable with the Germans. I think the cheap walls and rax help a lot for early defense, as well as the ability to build spears and archers from the start. I think I'll try to play some more starts on my own, while we can select a different civ for the SG.

I hope you're all up to giving this another try. If anyone cares to find us another start, go ahead.
 
I'm still in, even if we're still die Deutschen. I think it is possible as the Germans, but we need the great library badly. No matter who you are, the GL is required, but if you do get it, then having an agricultural civ with an early UU really helps. But, whatever. Also, if we're not agricultural, a second or third cow would help.

I think in general that last start was played very well. Sometimes, the GL just isn't possible, and unless you're on demigod or lower, you're toast. Even on demigod, no GL means you're barely not toast. Playing a commercial or seafaring civ (but preferably commercial) would help a lot, or even an industrious civ for early prebuild.
 
I'm still not sure this isn't doable with the Germans. I think the cheap walls and rax help a lot for early defense, as well as the ability to build spears and archers from the start. I think I'll try to play some more starts on my own, while we can select a different civ for the SG.

I hope you're all up to giving this another try. If anyone cares to find us another start, go ahead.

I think it is doable as the Germans, it is all a question of how many games do you want to play before we get a win. We tried AWS Continents with another civ on our continent in the Handy Series, and eventually did it. Took a lot of tries though - maybe 11?

I am certainly willing to play again. I tried several starts but they all had a lack of Iron.
 
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