Muslim hypocrisy?

[Gelion]

I just read a joke:

"It all looks quite strange: freedom of speech is an inherited attribute of Democracy, while having a brain is not"

 

[CurtSibling]

Same old treachery from the cowboys.

Incredulous at Americans who now stand against the values of liberty. Buddying up
with the islamists and trying to buy favour with the same people who cheered at 9/11.

It is obvious that this angle is intended only to drive a wedge at Europe and to
pitifully try and win over the Iraqis...It seems American honour gets left behind
when it suits their political masters...

And the jihadists hate the US most of all, they should not forget this.

 

[Bronx Warlord]

It seems American honour gets left behind
when it suits their political masters.

You may find this amazing... I agree fully.

 

[CurtSibling]

And I mean the organs of government and policy here, not every-day 'Mr Joe America' in the street.

Just so I don't sound like a lefty student or something.

I don't want to accuse muslims of generalising, then do it myself.

.

 

[classical_hero]

No, you just invaded two countries killing some 100 000 people. They burned 5 embassies

That figure is so inaccurate that it is laughable. It is not even 1/2 that. It would be closer to 30,000 and that is uincluding the killings by the insurgents. That extreme figures does show your bias.

 

[CurtSibling]

That figure is so inaccurate that it is laughable. It is not even 1/2 that. It would be closer to 30,000 and that is uincluding the killings by the insurgents. That extreme figures does show your bias.

My thoughts exactly, CH!

The Gulf War was not a gut reaction to terror, but a mediated choice made
by those men in power. Hannibal's comparison to the London/Madrid/NYC
bombings is among the most inaccurate things I can imagine...

.

 

[Gelion]

My thoughts exactly, CH!

The Gulf War was not a gut reaction to terror, but a mediated choice made
by those men in power. Hannibal's comparison to the London/Madrid/NYC
bombings is among the most inaccurate things I can imagine...

.

The second Gulf war was not in name, but in spirit. After the 9/11 the Bush administration has gone out of its way to link Iraq to 9/11. Numerous requests were made, the same kind of requests that asked for exaggerated WMD reports later. Unfortunatelly the linkage was impossible and later a new target was found - the real perpetrator of 9/11 - Afghanistan of Taliban. If you remember one of the charges against Iraq was support of terrorism. The real "reaction to terror" was Afghan war which I supported then and now.

 

[CurtSibling]

The second Gulf war was not in name, but in spirit. After the 9/11 the Bush administration has gone out of its way to link Iraq to 9/11. Numerous requests were made, the same kind of requests that asked for exaggerated WMD reports later. Unfortunatelly the linkage was impossible and later a new target was found - the real perpetrator of 9/11 - Afghanistan of Taliban. If you remember one of the charges against Iraq was support of terrorism. The real "reaction to terror" was Afghan war which I supported then and now.

Why are you telling me this?
I did follow the past events and am aware of it all...

We all know that the WMD link was garbage, and we all know the real
reason the US are there...Well, anyone who can see the world energy
situation and ignore a TV set will...

.

 

[Gelion]

Why are you telling me this?
I did follow the past events and am aware of it all...

We all know that the WMD link was garbage, and we all know the real
reason the US are there...Well, anyone who can see the world energy
situation and ignore a TV set will...

.

....okay.....

 

[classical_hero]

classical - do you honestly think "protests" against the west (in the ME) are totally spontaneous and not supported and sanctioned by the states in the ME?

Do you similarly think a "protest against terrorism/fanatical Islam" would be allowed in the ME by these same governments?

You are sorely deluded if you think anti-terrorism protests can happen in the ME as easily as anti-war protests (for example) can happen in the west. And taking that example... wasn't police protection required in the US for these protesters because of the danger to them from extremists who thought of the protestors as trators? Do you think the police/army in the ME will turn up and help run an orderly protest?

If you want condemnation from muslims in the west then OPEN YOUR EYES, because they're doing it all the time, constantly. If you don't go to a mosque and don't know many muslims you won't know will you? If you don't watch muslim tv channels, read muslim papers you won't know. The western press is having a field day stirring this up, only places like the BBC *ever* report the hard work done every day by muslims in the community.

Or maybe you want them to come and grovel at your feet for upsetting you so? How about if they beg for your forgivness personally? Is that good enough for you??

Then will you apologise for the rape of the ME by the western countries for the last 200 years? No? Some would say an apology is due on both sides - yet you seem to be getting a chip on your shoulder about it....

Do you want to guess who's lives are most ****ed up by the west-ME relationship? Well... it's not us in the west and that's for damn sure. But don't let that chip fall, you surely like the weight of it.

Well what I would like to see is that Muslims in the West show that they do not like there religion being used to kill people. The could protest against the Terrorists who are doing such acts and show the West that they are not silent in their views. That is something that I would like to see, a non-violent Muslim protest against the Terrorists. I'm sure that many non-muslims would also want to join in that, if such event took place.

So it seems that you are somewhat agreeing with what I m saying, that Muslims are being represented by those who we see, not by those we do not see.

 

[Gelion]

Well what I would like to see is that Muslims in the West show that they do not like there religion being used to kill people. The could protest against the Terrorists who are doing such acts and show the West that they are not silent in their views. That is something that I would like to see, a non-violent Muslim protest against the Terrorists. I'm sure that many non-muslims would also want to join in that, if such event took place.

Your wish came true:

Google does wonderfull things.

 

[CurtSibling]

For the rest of the week I am going Danish to show solidarity with free-thinking
Denmark and to pour scorn on all intolerant theocratic tyrants. Long live liberty!

 

[classical_hero]

Your wish came true:

Google does wonderfull things.

I was talking about now, not about then. The events that occured ere relatively small because those events actually hurt only Indons and not the intended target. So far we have not seen any protest so far about this issue, which is unfortunate.

 

[Gelion]

I was talking about now, not about then. The events that occured ere relatively small because those events actually hurt only Indons and not the intended target. So far we have not seen any protest so far about this issue, which is unfortunate.

You want to see protests against protests?

 

[anarres]

classical - this was on Dec 5th in London. 20,000 people (mostly muslims) protested for peace.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1904949,00.html

Tariq Suwaidan, a Muslim scholar from Kuwait, echoed many of those who addressed the conference when he insisted that Muslims did not support the terrorists behind the 9/ll attacks in America and the London bombings in July.

He said: “We totally refuse to be looked upon as terrorists and we totally refuse that these people represent us — they don’t.” He said that the terrorists were “enemies of Islam”.

Look, another rally organised by muslims just after the london bombings:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/nottinghamshire/2005/07/319509.html

Nottingham Peace rally in response to the London bombings

On Saturday afternoon, scores of people gathered for a peace rally in Nottingham in response to the London bombings. The event in Market Square was arranged by the Nottingham Muslim Action Group.

Organisers said the aim of the rally was to remember the victims of the bombings and promote solidarity between people of all races and faiths. and of course, no-faiths. The event was backed by a range of other faith groups.

After two-minute silence, 56 white balloons were released to represent and remember those that died as a result of the London explosions.

A similar rally was held last weekend in Leicester.

Can you admit that muslims in the west DO oppose this, often vocally? Can you see how this is not reported very well in the press?

I think it's important to look at what you wrote before - you said the evidence showed that muslims don't care:

Excellent point. It seems that alot of people are ignoring the evidence. The evidence is showing that the majority are silent and thus we just do not know what they believe in, whereas the opinions of those that we do know, are reacting very violently and this is why many of us are so worried. If we saw Muslims show there anger at those who are using their Religion to kill people, then there would not be this upcry. And that is the reason why this satirical cartoon was produced because Islam and the Bomb seem to be tied together. In fact, the reaction to the cartoons are actually justification for them being printed because it does show how violence is tied to the Islamic religion.

I'd really like you to re-address this point because I feel I've shown clear evidence your conclusion was wrong. You say you were "so worried" because no muslims seem to care, but I contend it is the press that portrays a false image of muslims in general.

 

[JoeM]

Unfortunately you don't see that because the majority of people who are moderate, don't go out on the streets - it's kind of a contradiction to expect them to.

The problem is the few objectionables, be it hundreds or thousands, get worldwide press coverage and get an impact far greater than their numbers deserve. Of course the media could stop covering small demonstrations, but then people would complain of censorship.

 

[HannibalBarka]

That figure is so inaccurate that it is laughable. It is not even 1/2 that. It would be closer to 30,000 and that is uincluding the killings by the insurgents. That extreme figures does show your bias.

that was a reply to this

I notice we did not make such a noise when they bombed London's tube stations or slaughtered thousands of innocent New Yorkers!!!

Waging a war and killing even 10000 (does that figure suits you?) isn't what I'd call "not make such a noise "

 

[CurtSibling]

that was a reply to this



Waging a war and killing even 10000 (does that figure suits you?) isn't what I'd call "not make such a noise "

You seem to be having huge trouble comprehending is that there is a
big difference between the civilians of Europe and the armed forces!!



Can't you work it out? Who reacted? The government or the people?

Was it business men and housewifes that fought in the Gulf War?

Honestly...!
Think before you post.

.

 

[HannibalBarka]

You seem to be having huge trouble comprehending is that there is a
big difference between the civilians of Europe and the armed forces!!

Can't you work it out? Who reacted? The government or the people?
Was it business men and housewifes that fought in the Gulf War?
Honestly...!
Think before you post.
.

OK terrorists from the ME killed civilians in Europe and the US, Armed forces from the US-UK killed civilians in the ME, so?

 

[CurtSibling]

OK terrorists from the ME killed civilians in Europe and the US, Armed forces from the US-UK killed civilians in the ME, so?

Then you defeat your own argument and give up?

Good.

The civilians of Europe and the USA have little control over their leaders, who
in turn ordered the wars in the Middle East. In turn this demonstrates that our
leaders took advantage of the muslim-terror attacks to plunder Iraq.

In that this reaction is not by the civilians of the USA and Europe, but by the
governments, acting in arrogant disregard for the varied opinions of their own
electorate....Still with me on this one?

Good.

The reaction to the Danish cartoons was one by the Middle Eastern public,
and civilians - And both calls for and is carrying out violence. This situation
is caused by their inate hate for Western values and culture.

In comparison, even in the wake of mass killings in Madrid/London/NYC, there
was no similar outpouring of hate and violence by civilians in USA and Europe.
Only a opportunist move by men in power that cannot be laid at the feet of
the ordinary people of the West, no matter how you try to sell it.

Still reading?

Good.

The final point is that the people of the Western ideal do not form into ugly
mobs worldwide and destroy random examples of Arabic culture, even when
attacked by Arab fundamentalists...That is because we can rationally see
that a few extremists are to blame.

Same as a few cartoonists are the people behind a cartoon, not the whole
of Europe. But a cartoon is very different to an exploding bomb or airliner....

PS
You can blame the governments and armies for the destruction of Iraq...

Not powerless civilians...

PPS
Hope you have learned something from all this.

.