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My attempt to make a tutorial for struggling Regent players

Discussion in 'Civ3 Strategy Articles' started by vmxa, Oct 23, 2008.

  1. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    Let see where we stand. Orleans has a factory and is a metro. I did not make a coal plant as I would normally. Should I do it now? Yes, here is why I switch army to plant. Currently I am making 38 shields at size 14. 50% of that is 19, so it totals 57. That is a bit more than 7 turns for an army. If make a plant, it drops to just over 5 turns. Now I am going to grow to 15 about the time the plant is done. That citizen will work a plain tile that is mined and has a rail. New numbers will be 41 shields, factory adds 20 and plant adds 20. We then get 81 and now can make an army in 5 turns. As we sit it would take 8 till size 15 and then 7.

    The next issue is hand in glove, MM and farms. My experience tells me were are not really ready for much in the way of farming right now. How I approach it depends on many things, but for this game it will be this way.

    First I will look at how close I am to closing the circumference with rails. I do this as I do not want to pull workers off to improve tiles, read farms, until I am comfortable that I can react to any action on any tile. In practice this means rails on nearly all coastal tiles and to most towns. We are close now.

    Once that is done, I will go to f1 and look at happy faces or rather unhappy ones. These are likely to be the places that do not have infrastructure, namely markets, and hence could have specialist. If you have multipliers, you normally want all pop to be working. It may come to pass that you just have to use a specialist anyway, but that does not happen at this stage in low level games.

    This is due to starting with all those content citizens. So once I find candidates for irrigation and specialist, I will send workers to get the rails and water down. Notice that I have removed worker builds from all those newer towns as they popped one out. This is because I have the key rails done and I want to let them grow to become farms.

    One issue with some of them is that they are choking with jungle and trees. I will soon create as many jungle clearing gangs as I can and go after the best sites. I am sure I have over looked a few useful things, but the only thing left right now is the plan to invaded. I have reviewed the idea of sending support to those two towns Xerxes gave us. I am now inclined to change the make up and send them to eliminate him.

    Next is who is the initial target on the other continent? We have two considerations, which could be over ridden by time concerns. So I choose the proximity and size as the main reasons. I select Shaka as he is close and smaller. This is an issue as I have few galleons or units to send. One more thing is last I checked Sam and Shaka were trading blows, so not likely to gang up on me.

    The other two could, but I am betting they will fear my infantry and armies. That does not preclude insanity. I will reiterate that this article is only my thinking at this time for this game and this situation. It is not necessarily the way I would do it in other conditions or the best way, it is only one way.

    I have reduced the number of screen shots as it was forcing me to have small and numerous post. This was better to read, but was making the report very long.

    I send the boats to the top of the empire so they will be closer to Shaka. Do not forget to send units to fill the armies, once they have landed. I will add an infantry into the sword army to make it useful.

    1280AD start on ToE, but is is 6 turns. Research of Corp will take 4 turns, so I have 2 turns of nothing. I cannot research anything in 2 turns. So I am stuck and will have to pile up cash, which I do not really need. Time to send the fleet to see Shaka.

    1285AD land on a hill with sword army, 2 cav armies and 1 infantry army. A settler, infantry, 5/5 mdi and crusader and 4 cavs. Not a very large stack, especially after I fill the 4 armies. The MDI can be upgraded, but I will give it a chance to make a leader. Boat headed for Xerxes, with 4 units.
     

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  2. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    1290AD I am starting to fix up some farms. One thing you could do is to look at towns that are size 6 and need an aqua. If they have access to grass and or food bonus, they are good candidates. So Cherbourg is a good one. It was making a settler and I should be making lots of them to fill the new lands. I change it to an aqua and two citizen working coast are made CE's and we get the time down to 17 turns. I will irrigate a tile or two to free up one more pop and cut the time. I may cash rush it soon as I have lot of cash. Now it is down to 12 turns. Found town on new land. Rush a barrack. Fill 2nd, 3rd and 4th. Need a unit for 1st. Land 2 cavs, crusader and infantry on Xerxes and off we go.

    1295AD autoraze empty Persian town and move to last town that I know. Rush harbor, but could have waited a turn to cut the cost. No one is coming, so I go. 2nd kills 2 impi and razed the place for 1 slave. 3rd kills pike and impi and razes the place for 2 slaves (4-0) [136-0]. I have a problem in that the roads are poor and I have not enough workers to get them improved to get from place to place.

    1300AD Sam wants to trade maps. I offer my territory map for his world map. I do not want him to meet Xerxes. Research to zero, till ToE done. Select AT. This is usually the best one as it is very expensive and then you take Electronics. It is very expensive and you can go straight to Hoovers, if you have water. Xerxes is gone. 2 cavs kill spears and we raze the place (2-0) [138-0]. Got a slave, so I will leave a cav and take back the one that went elite as well as the inf and crusader. I leave the worker so he can make roads and later an airfield. This way I could hope to stop any attempts to colonize. I rushed the aqua as we are making about 800gpt.

    1305AD got to love the AI, Shaka move an impi and a settler right next to the now healed army, I can use the slaves. Cav kills impi, army kills pike and impi and razes town for 1 slave (3-0) [141-0].

    1310AD not much, cav kills some sort of horse unit, maybe it was horse, did not pay attention (1-0) [142-0]. ToE gets AT and Elec. Send the troops to Borajan and rush harbor in its neighbor Jinjan. Worker there starts a road to the town.

    1315AD slow going so far. Researching Refine to see where oil is living. Troops at the island. Will disband the galleon to speed the worker. We do not need it as we are ferrying units to new land with more ships than we need. I put a bank up first in cap and then Hoovers. US is going in Tours. I have been trying to get roads on all the tiles, most are jungle or swamps or hill and mountains now. Need to get a real team to clear soon. I have a 1/2 team going. Just about got the coastal mountains railed. 2nd kills pike at Zimbabwe (1-0) [143-0]. Finaly found another town over there.

    1325AD 2nd kills 4 units, one a musket and razed Zimbabwe for 3 slaves. 3rd captures 2 workers. I forgot to mention we are making stock exchanges when we can. Hoovers going. (4-0) [147-0]

    1330AD 3rd kills pike and 2 impi and razed city for 3 slaves (3-0) [150-0].

    1335AD I have done a few farms. One way to make the work easier is to check F1 for blue faces and see if they can get specialist. If you use CAII, check for towns that just grew and see if they now can have another specialist. That is faster than going around all the towns every turn, which I do not do, except in the most difficult games.

    1340AD 2nd kills 2 and razed a town (2-0) [152-0]. The reason I have not gone hard to make farms even now, is well I am researching steel in 4 turns, so what is the need? I did rush another aqua as techs will get more expensive.

    1345AD 2nd kills 2 impi and capture Bapedi (2-0) {154-0]. Just for the record the homeland has 4 cavs only in one town and the rest are empty. I do have 5 artillery pieces to aid, if needed.

    1350AD 3rd kill knight (1-0) [155-0] and I rush temple in Bapedi. I see Henry and Sam have settler in the newly created holes. I will wait till I have more troops for them, no rush.

    1355AD found town to cut off the far right on the new land.

    1360AD 3rd kills AC and knight on the hill (2-0) [157}. Combustion in 4. Many tiles with oil, but not connected yet. One is, so no rush. I see Henry is sailing finally.

    1365AD found a town and sent out a settler.

    1370AD 3rd kills impi (1-0) [158-0].

    1375AD 3rd kills impi and grabs lbabanago and 8 American slaves. This town blocks access from one direction. Now I have to decide about Henry, he has a settler combo next to 2 of my armies and I have a settler there. Not sure where it wanted to go, but I am afraid, if I block him, he will plant on the spot. He is the nation next to me now. I would prefer to not go to war until I have eliminated Shaka or gotten a 5th lux. I go ahead and kill the pair. I then bombard the galley he had near the mainland. (2-0) [160-0]. I forgot to sell the coal plant, so I do that now.

    1380AD 2nd kills impi (1-0) [161-0]. Flight in 4. I start a destroyer to replace the frigates one by one. The island towns are connected and will be connected by rails soon. Clearing jungles a bit now. One city making cavs slowly at 8 turns and finally one with a factory making infantry every other turn. Orleans will start making armies in a turn or two. US was done a turn or 3 back. I should have enough exchanges to make Wall street in two turns. I will start a pre for Seti in a turn or two, unless I let a strong city make it.

    1385AD Pollution hits Orleans, clean it. Army is 5 turns as I calculated. I forgot to mention Shaka had sent a unit a couple of times and they went poof. Henry sending a few units to the blocking town. 5/5 crusader kills Henry's spear. 2nd kills 2 impi and razes town for 2 slaves. Cav kills the horse Henry send to the block (4-0) [165-0].

    1390AD sell off a few temples made to expand borders in the new land and couple in the mainland. No temples anyway and I only had 1 till just recently. I started Wal Street in Lyons due in 7. 2 cavs and 4/5 crusader kill horses (3-0) [168-0].

    1395AD Henry dropped a settler on the old Xerxes island and I missed it. Cav I left kills the knight and autorazed. 4/5 crusader kills pike, 3 cavs kills units (4-0) [172-0].
     

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  3. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    1400AD Start on Mass Production in 4. Will pop in an airfield on the mainland, the two islands an the new land. 3rd kills impi and razed Shaka town. Cav kills knight, but goes red. Cav kills longbow, 3/4 cav kills spear on hill. Sending galleons over to be upgraded. Three of the lands have an airfield (4-0) [176-0]. Chartres start a bomber as we are now below the support level with all the new towns and towns that are now cities.

    1405AD 5/5 crusader kills Zulu longbow. Cav dies on knight, had to come to an end, but I have had longer runs. Cav kills the knight. 2nd kills horse. Cav kills spear Henry's (3-1) [179-1].

    1410AD airfields on all now. Sent cav to Xerxes island. Strange, Henry left the galley next to my frigate, so I sink it. 3rd kills 4 units, 2 muskets and grabs Ulundi. It is very red. I thought it was the last town, but I should have looked. I forgot what happen with Henry so I won't mention it. I either did not fight him or I forgot what I killed. I was concerned Henry would attack the army so I make peace. I then dial up Shaka and see he has 2 towns. He gives me one for peace. The sad thing is the last one now is right next to the block. Army finishes (5-0) [184-1]. Did I mention Gilgamesh wanted lux deal and I saw that he still had not met Shaka and they are on the same continent?

    Looking at F3 I have:

    3 swords in 1st
    22 cavs, 4 in armies
    10 infantry, 4 in army
    5 artillery
    3 frigates
    6 galleons
    6 guerilla
    6 crusaders
     

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  4. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    Well, I can "beat" Regent, but thanks for posting this.
     
  5. TheOverseer714

    TheOverseer714 Overseer

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    Your RnG luck is sick, V. I know the exact same battles would come out differently for me.
     
  6. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    Well mostly the battles were in my favor, but luck is good. I will pay for it sooner or later.

    Edit: I think I should expand on this some. A few things I see as the cause of high losses. I am talking about battles where your units are at least as good at the AI. If you look at most games, players are reporting events like this: players send a stack of 8 swords to a town. He loses most or all of the units. Then says the town only had one spear.

    This is not really the case as we know he can only see the top unit. How it probably went down. Sword dies taking a point. Second does same, maybe not even taking a point. Third does better, takes 2 points off. These are mostly regular spears. Fourth dies taking a point. Now the defenders are 2/3, 2/3, 1/3. There could be a promotion here, probably not.

    Fifth attacks and dies on a 2/3, but takes a point and promotes spear now 2/4. Sixth attacks and goes down clean and promotes 2/3 to 3/4. Now he presses on, not even noticing the change of units. Seventh dies and maybe promotes 3/4 to elite, but is now 2/5. Eight dies and player scratch head.

    I avoid this stuff, but not attacking towns with spears with swords, unless I have cats or a very good reason. I am not in a rush. I try to avoid attack units in superior terrain, unless unit is damaged or much weaker. Like a knight attacks warrior or archer.

    The lone loss I had, I knew was a risk and I could have prevented, but it was late. I did not even bring any artilley to the continent. I use two bombers on the town for Sam, that could have damaged or kill the knight. I could have attacked with the 2 tank army. I just figure I would take the hit.
     
  7. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    1420AD start on Motor due in 4. Army reaches new land, it is empty now. No action, no need to fill. Got ivory in borders after New Poitiers expanded and I sold its temple. This is what I often do, get a temple in these new areas and maybe chop some tree and then rush in a few turns for a discount. Four turns later, sell it. I position three units at the block to prevent passage.

    1425AD pollution hits Lyons, clear it. Lyons starts pre for Seti. This is not an attempt get it as we learn Comps, just may as well get a small jump. No one is going to compete for it or anything.

    1430AD pollution Orleans. After it is cleaned and I put the citizen back to work, I have to take the pop that keeps wanting to work the fish back to specialist. This keep the size at 19. The fish would make 41 food, not good as I would always have starving at size 21. None have Banking and only Henry has Metal. I went ahead and ran through all the towns. Now I will check only on towns that grow each turn. I do not have to worry about riots at this level with 5 lux. Not to mention I left the slider at 10 as I had no need for more cash or research. It will help with new towns we grab. I may change that for modern techs, will have to see. I saved this one in case anyone gets this far and wants to see it. Note I did not maximize for shields in Trye. I did not want to speed them up.

    1440AD start Computers. Switch infantry to tanks. Two empty armies now. I have 1 team doing rails on hills only. I think all the flat tiles are railed in the mainland. I will send the workers from the island over soon as the they have railed all tiles and have much of the pollution cleared.

    1470AD Henry had two caravels poking around the island, so I sunk them. Then tank army, named 5th, killed knight and something. Cav killed horse and captured Badajoz. I dial up Shaka and he will join for nothing. I like the guy, so I give him Ed anyway. I sort of hope he is eliminated.

    I call on Sam and he will do it for a lux, so now he is Polite to me. I remove the blocking units so he can come through, if he wants. There is one town behind the block, so he should go for that first. I have 2 empty armies and two places making tanks every other turn. I shut down the bombers.

    I have disbanded all frigates after the last one sunk one of the boats. Two DD's is enough for these lames. I may not remove the block, not sure yet. Seti is going. I am slowing upgrading the few infantry as none where in a barrack town.

    Researching Mini for labs. I will not build any, just the free ones. Do realize that the labs do not work, if you do not have a university. They will make culture. This is a double edge sword as the farms will all have to be fixed after borders pop.

    1475AD bombers kill knight. 5th kills pike. 2nd kills spear, horse and LB and razes city for 7 slaves. Note the order of battle. The AI will put up the best defender, the spear. If they next units are the same on defense, it will put up the worse offensive unit. The means the horse. This is to preserve them to attack, hopefully. Found New Toulouse. (5-0) [189-1] Note that Sam has not come through the hole nor has Henry.
     

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  8. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    This concludes the presentation. I have gotten to the modern age, the game is close to over and the need tiles will be added with ease now that tanks are available and mechs to cover town.

    The point was to show how you can get through the Middle Age and Industrial Age.

    I had to use the armies to sit and or heal, now mechs let them return to heal in barracks and more armies exist.

    If anyone has anything I could add or over looked post it please.
     
  9. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    Nicely done, vmxa. There aren't many articles that take a game from start to finish like this.
     
  10. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    Thanks, I hope it was worth it to someone down the line. Maybe a few more idea/concepts will be offered and I can incorporate them. Some times, I was just to busy to think of things that should have been added.

    One post I just read gave me one to add now.
     
  11. Sashie VII

    Sashie VII Balance of Power

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    Thanks for this vmxa. I got a few tips out of it on several small things (like choosing first tech to research :crazyeye:), so it was worth the read for me.
     
  12. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    Glad to hear Sashie.
     
  13. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    I decided to go ahead and put in the whole thing so here is the rest of the story.

    1480AD Orleans starts army as a pre for the Internet. Henry eliminates Shake. I should mention that I did not trade Press as Sumeria still does not know Shake. Now it does not matter as every one has met. I will help Sam as he seems to be having trouble with the one town. I bomb it for him. Bombers kill a knight. 2nd kills knight. 5th gets two tanks. (2-0) [191-1]

    1485AD 3rd kills 3 units and razed town for 2 slaves. 2nd kills two and razes town for 2 slaves. Bomber gets 1 (6-0) [197-1].

    1490AD bombers kill 2. 5th kills 3. 3rd kills spear and raze city for 6 slaves. 2nd captures 2 workers. Cav kills LB (7-0) [204-1].

    1495AD start Ecology for Orleans. Switch army to Internet. Sank boat (1-0) [205-1].

    1500AD bombers kills 1. 2nd kills two and razed town. 3rd kills 2 and razed town for 1 slave (5-0) [210-1]. I meant to mention long ago that I could have gotten the tech and made the UN and won. America and Sumeria are polite and I could have made them even happy. I prefer domination or conquest. I have 66% of pop, just 44% of land.

    1505AD bomber kills LB. 6th kills 3 and razed city for 3 slaves. ?th kills LB and it had a settler. 5th grabs worker. I found a town that will give furs after road is laid next turn (5-0) [215-1].

    1510AD bombers kill 2 LB. 3rd kills 2 and captures town. 2nd kills LB. 5/5 crusader kills LB (6-0) [221-1].

    1515AD 6th kills 2 and captures town. Bomber kills LB. Block is filled. US and Henry make peace (3-0) [224-1].

    IBT Sam gets froggie and wants to make a lux trade and I tell him to go away and he declares. Two knights attack town with infantry army and pipe it. Army promoted (2-0) [226-1].

    1520AD start Rocket. Happy days as not only do I get war happiness from Sam, I get the furs hooked up. Bomber kills LB. DD sinks boat and goes elite. Rush 4 settlers. Cavs kills 2 knights (US) (4-0) [230-1].

    1525AD 2nd kills pike and gets settler. DD sinks boat that landed the settler pair. The two tundra towns are starving down to size 1 so I can get 1 scientist. 5th kills 3 and razed place (5-0) [235-1].

    1530AD Seti done. 6th kills 2. 3rd kills 2 and razed it. Size 7 no slaves. Add Gems (4-0) [239-1].

    1535AD 7th kills 2 and 2nd 1 and captures town. 3 cavs kill Americans and capture the town that was in my area. I had forgotten till now. DD sink US ship. Rush the few structures going (7-0) [246-1].

    1540AD Internet done, start a Mass Trans in Orleans. Start Fibers in 4 turns. 3rd kills 2 and grabs town. 5th kills 2 and grabs last town Henry has on continent. I have not even cross into US land so far. Now I will make peace with Henry. 5th kills 2 knights just before US borders (6-0) [252-1]. These clowns are all still at least three tech from getting to the IA?

    1545AD No peace, will send transport to drop a termination crew on Henry. DD finds another tiny island with Henry on it and sinks a boat. 7th kills 2 and razes town for 2 slaves. 6th kills knight. 2nd kills 1 in the motor city, nothing new for Detroit (5-0) [257-1].

    1550AD 2nd kills 2 and razed Motown. The record company moved out a long time ago anyway. 5th kills 2 more and one had a settler. 7th kills 2. 5th kills 2 knight. I ping some boats by Orleans. 3rd kills knight (9-0) [266-1]. I start to upgrade to tow units, but one at a time. I should mention I would normally have been making barracks in the war zone, but no need in this game as they are afraid to attack with a few exceptions. Units can heal in the field or go to the one rax.

    1555AD Henry is funny, lands a lone horse at Orleans. 7th kills unit and we own Coors, I mean Denver. I push the 3rd as it kills 4 and I have to cover it. Tank kills the horse and flies to new land (6-0) [272-1].

    1560AD start on Recycle to help the factories, but I may sell them soon as I do not really need modern armor. DD sinks one of the boats. Ugh, labs pop borders so now I have to check on all the towns. The gov will surely reassign pop now. 2nd kills 2 and grabs Philly. I take it as it is a good block and it came with a barracks. Move in 3rd as it is near dead and a tank army. Upgrade 5 tanks to MA. I have done some Tow upgrades as well.

    6th kills 2 and grabs Katrina, I mean New Orleans. I just do not have enough settlers and that is on purpose. No rush remember. I am thinking of inviting Gil to the party for his benefit more than mine. I hope he does not give up more towns than he takes. Actually I check and Sam is the only one not having MT, so should fine. Gil is now my friend as I give him PP for an alliance. No harm at this late date and yes none of them even know Physics.

    He did have a whole 6 gold. Recycle does one more thing in games where you grab cities with structures. You can sell off stuff and rush other stuff. Good for getting a settler or worker out of resisting town. If you managed to read this far, man you are persistent, let me highlight this event.

    Bayonne sits on a hill with mainly desert tiles. During my check of towns I see it got to size 3, but has only 1 tile with more than 2 food, even after improved. It has an oasis. What does that do for me anyway? Well the center tile gives 2 food and the oasis gives 4. So with one citizen working I get 6 food. No sense in letting the place grow and use the extra food and end up with no specialist.

    Here I can go ahead and make two scientist now and be good. That is how I approach towns that will have no structures. What is the point, if any, that I can get specialist? That my target. If it means I can only have 1, then take it right at the start and do not grow at all. As you change citizen around, be it specialist or tiles, take note of the impact. See if the gold goes up or down or the beakers. Make the choice that best suits what you need now. Complete a pass and now drop research to 70% and still recycle in 4. (5-0) [277-1].

    1565AD MA kills 2 and goes elite and grabs settler. 7th kills 2 and captures town. DD sink the galley. Move bombers in case I feel like using them on the island towns. (5-0) [282-1].

    1570AD 3 MA kill units and capture New York. Ok, it happened I lost track of what happened here as dinner was served. I do not know how many units, if any were killed, beyond the NY capture. I do know I lost none. (3-0) [285-1]

    1575AD 5th kills knight and 3rd kill pike and get a promotion. The one thing that seems poor is the promotions. Guess you cannot have everything. DD sinks boat, not sure why it never moved, but you see that often (3-0) [288]. I sent an MA to the island towns.

    1580AD start Fission. Orleans starts a recycle plant as does Lyons. When Tour is done with this tank, I will sell the factory and put the town to bed. MA kills knight. 6th kills 2 and 5th kills one and capture town (4-0) [292-1].

    I cleared all jungles and swamps last turn and have just two volcanoes to clean and some mountains to rail. The new land has all towns connected by rail, except the one I just got. The transports got on station and will load for Henry next turn.

    1585AD form 8th with modern armor. Fleet next to Henry's island, he has two towns. Side tracked again, I know I killed a few with the 8th.

    1590AD 8th kills 2 and 2nd kills 1. (3-0) [295-1]

    1595AD bomber sink ship. I do some work on a city to free two more tiles for Orleans and it can now use the fish and has all 21 tiles going. 3rd kills 2 and razed Henry's capitol. I leave 2 cavs to prevent resettlement. 5/5 MA goes yellow, but kills pike and gets a leader. I form 9th with that MA. I forgot that at least 2 ships were in that town I razed (6-0) [301-1].

    1600AD start Genetic in 4. Orleans switch army to UN. Lyons started a pre for one of the genetic wonders and Tours started Project. I have nothing better to build. Two bombers each kill a spear and the town is empty. Landing 3rd and friends there now. 5th and 6th each kill 2 and raze San Fran (6-0) [307-1].
     
  14. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    1605AD maybe I should point out that I am at 59% land. I probably could have gotten enough tiles by just making temples and then selling them after expanding. A few more settlers for those island could be done as well. I just do not want to bother with that, its fine to just roll along. I think I am about 80% of the pop. Bomber kills the new spear and a cav steps in to autoraze it. 8th kills 2 and 6th one and razes Seattle (4-0) [311-1].

    1610AD I forgot to mention that NY gave me wines, so I have 8 luxs. 3rd kills 2 and razes last town for Henry and bye bye. I leave 4 cavs there. Sumeria has a few towns there. I made an airfield with the lone salve. Looks like Gil finally learned Physics. I send the two MA from Lyons to the new land to fill the army. Let me mention that I only made 2 airfields on the homeland. This is due to not making more than a couple of units per turn. In some games I may have many airfields. I put them close to the core as that is where the units are made. You just fix any improvement lost with all the workers you should have by then. (2-0) [313-1]

    1615AD bombers kill a knight. If you were leader fishing, you would have artillery to red line units and attack them. Here it was on a hill and I would have been stuck there and I am not wanting any more leaders. 6th kills two and grabs city. 8th kills 2 and grabs town. Sam is OCC, maybe Gil will finally act. 3rd kills one. 9th kills last American and peace prevails (7-0) [320-1].

    Now I will try to fill in enough to end it. I start temples in a bunch of towns. I block access to the holes.

    1625AD send over 4 transport of workers to new land, while I wait for borders to pop. Gil looks to send settlers in, but I block that. He is landing on islands, I let him. I just did not want any combatants to arrive.

    1640AD sitting on 65%.

    IBT temples pop and I am at 70% and it is over.
     

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  15. Rodent

    Rodent Carnage

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    892
    A great Article from a Great player, :goodjob:

    I would like to ask a few questions-

    1)In AA We often face battles Like Swords/Archers to Spears, Is it worth it to build catapults to support them, Or I should just build more units?

    2)Apart from the Settler factories, Is it worth it to build Granaries in the core for Quick Growth?

    3)Should Workers be built in a city quickly (Which means low pop but developed land) or rather late (high pop, not too much Developed land) ?

    I hope to get a save up for Analysis soon
     
  16. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Oviedo, Fl
    Rodent

    "1)In AA We often face battles Like Swords/Archers to Spears, Is it worth it to build catapults to support them, Or I should just build more units?"

    To me, if it is a low level game with a good start, I will not go for cats. The reason is that I expect to not be involved in wars, until I want them. At that point I would expect to have better units than they will.

    At Regent they will not be doing so well and not expanding real fast, unless they have a trait like Ag and a great start location. So if a war does start early, it should be short. They will be up for peace quickly.

    After all, they want to expand. You can usually get a peace deal and only face a few warriors or an archer or two. They tend to come in ones and twos and can be dealt with. A few lost units and the flag is up.

    If this were say Emperor, I will ignore higher levels, it can be different. They start with 4 defenders and 2 offensive units and an extra worker. They also have a 20% discount.

    So they will expand better and research better and have units to fight with right away. They can crowd you a bit as well. They still tend to be willing to make peace after you kill a few units and they usually are coming over some distance.

    You will not expect to have better units than them for a long time, so fights will not be as easy, hence I like cats sooner. This is true, even if I do not attack them.

    Wars go better with high kill ratios and bombardment helps a lot. Terrain also is important.

    Once sword are part of the scene, I want to be on offense. Swords do more damage to me, if they are allowed to attack. They can kill spears.

    Again, what is my level? If it is Regent, then I probably will not face a war till I am past swords. In this game, the did not show up with sword types for the longest time and Caesar never had any Legions. He was the only one with no iron.

    Higher levels, then I am going to try to get the battle on favorable terrain or conditions. If it AW, then it is another story completely. Archer attacks, well don't let them attack. Attack them, they have the same defense as a warrior.

    "2)Apart from the Settler factories, Is it worth it to build Granaries in the core for Quick Growth?"

    I am not a settler factory kind of player. I mean I do not look to make them. In a low level game, don't need them. Higher levels or AW can't afford them.

    I will try to get a granary in two good towns and as soon as I can. The big problem for AW and Sid, is I will not have the tech. I am going to go hard to get Lit and the Glb. I cannot trade for it in those games. Some times in Sid I can trade for it, but usually not.

    In say Monarch or lower, then again I can get the tech by huts, trade or research or start techs. So as soon as I have enough size to build one in a place that has or soon will have +3 food, then I do that.

    If I can do a chop to speed it, I will. I may only do one, if I do not have any food bonus.

    "3)Should Workers be built in a city quickly (Which means low pop but developed land) or rather late (high pop, not too much Developed land) ?"

    Workers, never seem to have as many as I want. First you have to deal with loss of pop and the shields. Then you have to deal with the support at about the time you have 5 or 6 towns.

    I think I had only one food bonus and it was on a plains. That made workers an issue. I got by on the cheap as I was Industrious and knew how to keep a tight rein on their task.

    Ideally you get a camp that does little other than make workers. You may have a super food town with a granary that can make settlers and workers, not so common.

    Mainly I will squeeze one out of every town. When I found a town, I look to see how fast it will grow and make 10 shields. If it is 10 turns for both, then the first thing it does is make a worker.

    This sort of force at least one worker per town. Not quite as some towns can grow fast or make shields faster or must get something else. After the 6 or so town, I will consider going on wealth to get timing for growth, if it will need 20 turns to grow.

    Again, AW or very high levels are different. In AW, I probably have to go with a wall.

    I do not use true camps much in C3C, but they are great in C3 or PTW or low level maps that have lots of land. A scheme from Master Zen, we called Zenning.

    You put towns, called camps, in between your real towns and they do nothing but make settlers or workers or troops. The real towns work on infrastructure.

    Later, say in the late Middle Age, you start to abandon those camps and now the core towns have all the tiles they need. It is hard to use that in high level games or std maps as the land is filled so quickly.
     
  17. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Ohio
    [2)Apart from the Settler factories, Is it worth it to build Granaries in the core for Quick Growth?

    3)Should Workers be built in a city quickly (Which means low pop but developed land) or rather late (high pop, not too much Developed land) ?]

    With respect to these sorts of questions, I think it worth it to at least consider having 2 or 3 cities (on a standard sized map) have granaries and train workers. After you've expanded, they build nothing but workers for a good long time. Let your cities grow to size 7, and then add in workers until they go to size 12. Settler factories can work well on Deity and Demi-God (as well as lower levels), especially if you play a farmer's "gambit".

    For any newbies, please note VMXA played a non-oscillating war game... so he went for conquest. If you play for other sorts of victory conditions, you'll want to consider playing the game differently.
     
  18. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Oviedo, Fl
    You could win it any way you want. I could elect to launch, I could get the vote. I never checked the culture, but that would not be a problem. I actually won by domination.

    I am not sure new players have any idea what an oscillating war is, I don't either. I can guess, but this level does not require any special strategy. I think my real point is that you have to keep expanding, regardless of any other factors to thrive. This is what new players do not do.

    I can not speak as an expert on DG or Deity as I prefer Sid, but Deity should not be much different, from what I recall. DG I only play as AWDG. So to me, I am not gong to be able to make granaries, good or not. I just will not have the tech in time to be useful.

    You generally will not get out more than 5 towns, unless alone or quite isolate, so they will not pay off. I would rather have more troops. I cannot afford to go to size 12 for a long time as the unhappiness would counterfeit the size. So adding in workers in other than the capitol is not a viable plan.

    IMO you do not want a settler factory on highest level or AW as you cannot defend those place anyway. They will flip or be taken down. You need to be able to hold places.

    Anyway I did not want to address games above Regent as I feel that players playing at Emperor or better already know the basic. If they don't, they should back up and get familiar with them.

    If you are isolated, then, IF you have Pottery, make a granary. Otherwise best make troops and try for GLB. BTW I would not make the GLB on a straight DG game, it is not worth it. They are not fast enough to give me enough techs, but to fast to get to Ed. So you do not have that much time to save money.
     
  19. Sashie VII

    Sashie VII Balance of Power

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Where people build cat statues
    IMHO, it is worth it if the city has food bonus. This allows faster growth, and with the food bonus the said city can time unit production with worker production. One instance when I've used this is when I have city growing every 4 turns, while producing 10spt - it makes sense to go into a sword/horse+1worker cycle. This way worker production never stops, at least not until you don't need additional workers (either for improvements or population boost in other cities). Just MHO.
     
  20. darski

    darski Regent in Training

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,075
    Location:
    Ontario, Can.
    By any chance, do you have the 4000BC save for this game? I still have to read this page through but I was hoping you had the save posted here.

    I want to consider the notes you have made in the game...Luck with the RNG seems to have helped too :lol:
     

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