My most humble Noble Walkthrough

[binhthuy71]

Thanks everyone for the appreciation. I was really unsure when I posted this whether it would be helpful or not. Glad to know I could help.

You performed a valuable service. Despite the number of people who struggle with Noble your walkthrough seems to be the first one specifically written to help people succeed at that level.
Now we can answer all of the "Help, I can't win Noble!" threads with Read IT's Walkthrough.

 

[MobileOak]

I have some questions about your conquest of Suryavarman. I tried 4-5 games on Noble last night with Mansa Musa and could not conquer anyone as easily as you did here:

1. You built a barracks for your chariots - what promotion did you take?
2. Your screenshot shows one archer defending - did he whip another one before you attacked?
3. Mansa has Skirmishers that have a strength 4 like the chariots do, but don't require horses. If you had had 6 skirmishers instead of 6 chariots would you have attacked at this time?
4. If you had found copper instead of horses would you still have attacked?
5. If the capitol had been on a hill would you still have attacked?

I wanted to try some mid-game strategies with Mansa last night and kept ending up in starts where someone untrustworthy (Monty, Hannible, etc) was basically 1 city's distance from my capital. I tried several variations of attacks - sometimes building one extra city, sometimes 2 or 3, sometimes building chariots, other times skirmishers, other times skirmishers + axemen + swordsmen, and was not successful in killing the other civilization once. And I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Is the chariot required so they don't whip up a bunch of defenders? None of the cities I attacked had less than 3 defenders by the time I started.

Maybe I'm not whipping at the right time? I wait to whip until I am at the happy-cap, and only whip at that time if it consumes more than one population. Is this the wrong way to do it?

 

[Ignorant Teacher]

I have some questions about your conquest of Suryavarman. I tried 4-5 games on Noble last night with Mansa Musa and could not conquer anyone as easily as you did here:

1. You built a barracks for your chariots - what promotion did you take?

I promoted them to Combat.

2. Your screenshot shows one archer defending - did he whip another one before you attacked?

I don't know why, but he didn't whip an Archer, he moved a Warrior there instead. That was dumb.

3. Mansa has Skirmishers that have a strength 4 like the chariots do, but don't require horses. If you had had 6 skirmishers instead of 6 chariots would you have attacked at this time?

Only if the enemy was a wuss like Gandhi or Elizabeth. Otherwise I'd have built 2 or 3 more because of the slow movement. I guess it would be a faster rush because you can start building them earlier.

4. If you had found copper instead of horses would you still have attacked?

Yes, I would. I guess I wouldn't have attacked if the other guy was someone peaceful, but Suryavarman gives me the creeps. He's my least favorite neighbor.

5. If the capitol had been on a hill would you still have attacked?

Possibly, but I'd aim for more Chariots.

I wanted to try some mid-game strategies with Mansa last night and kept ending up in starts where someone untrustworthy (Monty, Hannible, etc) was basically 1 city's distance from my capital. I tried several variations of attacks - sometimes building one extra city, sometimes 2 or 3, sometimes building chariots, other times skirmishers, other times skirmishers + axemen + swordsmen, and was not successful in killing the other civilization once. And I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

If you post the save, I'd be happy to try to do a rush and demostrate it.

Is the chariot required so they don't whip up a bunch of defenders? None of the cities I attacked had less than 3 defenders by the time I started.

That's the great advantage of mounted units. They give the AI less time to prepare.

Maybe I'm not whipping at the right time? I wait to whip until I am at the happy-cap, and only whip at that time if it consumes more than one population. Is this the wrong way to do it?

If you're thinking of general whipping strategies, I think you're doing the right thing. However, I think that whipping and chopping for a rush is a little different. In this game I didn't whip at all, but what I like to do is to let the Chariot (Skirmisher or whatever) be one turn from completion then whip it. The next one will be done quickly and, when the third one starts, the worker will have chopped a forest. I don't care if I have to whip the capital away for a rush. The other city will more than make up for it. Besides, the unhappiness wears off eventually.

 

[Amao]

@MobileOak

Early rush is situational and involves great risks. Of course if successful, we all know the huge gains. So, once decided, it requires dedication to pull of a rush.

For the situations:
1. how far away your neighbor is from you, the farther away, the less likely to succeed.
2. what speed you are playing, the slower, the easier. Do note that IT was playing on Epic speed. no noble, with Epic speed or slower, you can easily do a warrior rush. TIMT is the expert. KaytieKat does it a lot in Noble Club series.
3. what resources do you have, how productive your capital is right from the start. an axe rush to any civ w/o achery yet means certain death. see my Prince of World #1a and mourn for Fred's immediate neighbors.
4. pick your target. any civs w/o BW cannot rush archers when you close in. any civs w/o hunting as starting techs will have archer later than who does.

 

[Ignorant Teacher]

2. what speed you are playing, the slower, the easier. Do note that IT was playing on Epic speed.

This game is on Normal speed.

4. pick your target. any civs w/o BW can rush archers. any civs w/o hunting as starting techs will have archer later than who does.

Even with metals, one can Archer rush other civs. There's an old game I played on Monarch (it was Marathon too, ok) and I rushed Suryavarman with Archers. It's on this thread: PCI João, more specifically on this post and this one.

Edit: Sorry, once again, I misread a post.

 

[MobileOak]

Disclaimer - all my games were on standard size map, standard turn rate.

In all the cases I tried, the enemy capitol was roughly one BFC away from my capitol. So generally 2 (from my capitol out of BFC) + 5 (width or height of BFC) + 3 (into enemy's BFC). So 10 spaces away - so generally 2 spaces closer than the original post. In each case I generally settled towards the civ I was going to attack, built 2 workers, connected the two cities with roads, and mined/pastured the copper/iron/horses and connected them. Then I built a road towards the enemy with one worker, and chopped with the other.

The two cases I had the most success, I actually managed to take Monty's capitol (with one chariot remaining) but he took it back the next turn with 2 archers + 1 warrior he had in reinforcements. The other case I took Hannibal's expansion city, but could not take his capitol (he had hooked up iron and built axemen).

I also (generally) know not to rush if:
* the leader is protective (and/or aggressive?)
* the city is on a hill

But still I have not had the seemingly easy success you describe in the opening. I'll try whipping the capitol more and try to simulate your rush more accurately then.

 

[Amao]

This game is on Normal speed.


Even with metals, one can Archer rush other civs. There's an old game I played on Monarch (it was Marathon too, ok) and I rushed Suryavarman with Archers. It's on this thread: PCI João, more specifically on this post and this one.

Edit: Sorry, once again, I misread a post.

Yes. Your game is Normal speed. I misread as wel.

And for the 4th situation, i mistyped. Corrected now.

 

[MobileOak]

I've played several more times but haven't gotten the close starts that I was having when I posted earlier.

Have you played any more of this game? I'm interested in seeing it further.

 

[Edzako]

Nice work here IT! I'll be closely subscribing to this thread to check for any tips and advices that you can give us.

I've been lurking for quite some time now, and it appears that most of the people here favor the worker>let city grow for N population>warrior/settler/worker build. But everytime I try that, AI would always beat me to juicy spots in the map. So that is why I'm forced with a worker>settler>settler opening (and thus mining>BW, so you can chop the 2 settlers).

So, does the worker>settler>settler works in emperor and above? Can somebody explain to me the merits and demerits of this kind of opening? thanks

Don't know about Deity as AI fill up those maps with terrible speed, but on immortal barbarians would surely cause massive problems with w>s>s opening.

 

[AthenaMaria]

I'd like to join in this game and play along. Are you continuing it? I am hoping to learn how to be a good noble player.

 

[Ignorant Teacher]

I've already played the next 100 turns. All that's missing is the write-up.

 

[Snonskoid]

Very helpful indeed, IT. Thankyou.
It seems a city should be sited for its resources more than its position. You have definite plans for each city before you found it- even down to which tiles to improve for which specialist, and which wonder to build where. This is all new stuff for me to learn.
Really hope you continue. I need lots of help with diplomacy!

 

[yanner39]

Thanks for this. For me, just the write up you have provided is helpful. I find it impressive that you've already mapped out your next 6 or 7 cities. This is something I definately have trouble doing and as seen in other recent posts, I then find myself horizontally expanding slowly.

You've properly demonstrated the importance of early planning. I look forward to the rest.

 

[Ignorant Teacher]

Man, I've been postponing the next write-up for far too long. Damn my laziness! I'll get around to it, I promise.

 

[yanner39]

I'm just impressed with the detailed walkthrough on the first 100 turns. If I follow that, it would set me up for the next 400. That being said, I have been known to screw things up big time.

Quick question regarding the production of settlers. How do you generally decide which city and when you produce the next settler? Do you have you capital, already at the cap produce the settlers, or would you look at a growing city closer to the potential city spot that is not yet at the cap, to build a settler? Do you have specific milestones you reach before generating a settler?

 

[yanner39]

In my current game as Hannibal, I started out with Khmer (just like the walkthrough). Following the footsteps of this thread, I axe/warrior rushed him right after he finished the Great Wall. Pretty weird eh? And no, it wasn't one of the saves.

Anyways, apparently he still hasn't learned.

 

[Bullfrog245]

IT, could you (or anyone else knowledgeable about such things) explain how you are researching so well with the slider only at 30%? Is it one of those situations where more cities working more cottages at a lower percentage outweighs fewer cites working fewer cottages at a higher percentage?

I remember reading somewhere about the "60% Rule" where you should only expand until you drop your science slider to 60%, then wait before expanding further. Judging by this game and some of the others I've read recently, it looks like that advice is not necessarily good advice.

 

[Silu]

IT, could you (or anyone else knowledgeable about such things) explain how you are researching so well with the slider only at 30%? Is it one of those situations where more cities working more cottages at a lower percentage outweighs fewer cites working fewer cottages at a higher percentage?

I remember reading somewhere about the "60% Rule" where you should only expand until you drop your science slider to 60%, then wait before expanding further. Judging by this game and some of the others I've read recently, it looks like that advice is not necessarily good advice.

That's generally it. 30% of 300 is more than 80% of 100. The slider % is usually not actually a very useful tool to gauge anything really.

The "60% rule" can be a good rule of thumb for beginners to get the hang of things and avoid overexpansion (which is a very common problem especially for people that have played the previous titles like Civ2), it's certainly not for levels ~Prince and above. When you learn how things work you can start REXing to 0% and things like that. As with all advice, you should strive to learn the mechanics behind advice, and once you know those, you can forget the "rule"

In a nutshell: if you know what the rules are, you can break them.

 

[Bullfrog245]

Ah, that explains why my starts have been so slow. Someone should make a guide that tells you what beginners advice can safely be ignored once you get the hang of things

This little tidbit alone makes this thread worth it. I'm looking forward to my next restart

 

[Silu]

Ah, that explains why my starts have been so slow. Someone should make a guide that tells you what beginners advice can safely be ignored once you get the hang of things

Well that's a short guide: everything. The game is so situation dependant and there are so many variables that it's very very hard to have rules that always apply.