National Park

[EsaKo]

Hi CivFanatics

We all know that the National Park is an epic wonder if placed within a city surrounded by a lot of forest. The main problem is that forests are rare within AI territory and rare within player territory (farms, shops and cottages, obviously). In order to get the best rewards from NatPark, it should be in the most forestspam location available.

But the question is: When should I reserve a city/location for my National Park? It has to be in the area controlled by me in very early game so it doesn't get chop-chopped by the angry AI, but I'm reluctant to waste lots of money to keep a forestspam city up and running until the Park becomes available. I had a very good luck in a recent game - a forested location near the southern parts of the continent, I started near but expanded the other way because the site wasn't good for anything else. But in case I never get that lucky again, is it good to keep an otherwise cottageable city forested for a long time to get the Park there?

 

[Nilmerf]

Tundra with fish is the ideal spot for the National Park. Here's a particularly juicy location that I plan on putting it in my current game.

 

[Riot]

Hi CivFanatics

We all know that the National Park is an epic wonder if placed within a city surrounded by a lot of forest. The main problem is that forests are rare within AI territory and rare within player territory (farms, shops and cottages, obviously). In order to get the best rewards from NatPark, it should be in the most forestspam location available.

But the question is: When should I reserve a city/location for my National Park? It has to be in the area controlled by me in very early game so it doesn't get chop-chopped by the angry AI, but I'm reluctant to waste lots of money to keep a forestspam city up and running until the Park becomes available. I had a very good luck in a recent game - a forested location near the southern parts of the continent, I started near but expanded the other way because the site wasn't good for anything else. But in case I never get that lucky again, is it good to keep an otherwise cottageable city forested for a long time to get the Park there?

I don't think so. Late-game you can settle it, but early and mid-game, depending on your economy, I'd say you need those cottages.

 

[Ormur]

If I don't plan ahead I just put it in whatever city has most forests left and farm the rest. When I plan ahead I like lumber-milling all the forests first so the city can build all the specialist buildings I want.

 

[EsaKo]

Tundra with fish is the ideal spot for the National Park. Here's a particularly juicy location that I plan on putting it in my current game.

Yeah, that's pretty much like what I had in that one game too. I was trying SE and had things running smooth - the continent was mine and I decided upon embarking on intercontinental conquests to settle the location (it had some food resource in addition to forests) shortly before the natpark becomes available.

I haven't used NatPark a lot, I was just wondering whether it is feasible to sacrifice cottage land for a potentially game-altering wonder. It probably just depends on whether there's a good place around.

 

[Fleme]

When you have more cities than you need, as in more than 6 on normal or more than 7 on large etc. you can easily put one aside for a NP later on.

Here's the NP from my current game as Frederick (Immortal). I had an incredible starting location (with surroundings having over 30 flood plains) and took advantage of it. Rushed Vicky and the NP spot was just west of what was her capital.



Basically I almost always stick the NP somewhere along the tundra belt because that terrain rarely ever sees any other good use.

 

[iggymnrr]

One of these days I'm going to build the Park in the city with the Globe just to see how big the city can get. Maybe on one of those maps with an 8 seafood start.

 

[EsaKo]

One of these days I'm going to build the Park in the city with the Globe just to see how big the city can get. Maybe on one of those maps with an 8 seafood start.

At first I was like "wut!" and then I was like "Oh right, it removes unhealth from population!"...

 

[mc-red]

I find it almost always useful in the isolated situation where you can plan ahead and settle just in time for lumber mills or even earlier if there are usefull tiles.

The following is from a game in the LHC series:


Otherwise I build in a large industrial city on a river (allows a hydro plant for later).

 

[Edzako]

Which specialist type do you usually use ? In recent game I had 9 forest preserves which generated ~ 150 beakers per turn (with Oxford), very nice amount, but nothing game-braking as some previous posters described.

 

[EsaKo]

Which specialist type do you usually use ? In recent game I had 9 forest preserves which generated ~ 150 beakers per turn (with Oxford), very nice amount, but nothing game-braking as some previous posters described.

150 beakers is a lot from a city that needs very little development to start cranking that out. You only need the wonder, and you're ready to start cranking science there. Not to mention versatility - if you're short on funds, turn them into merchants. And don't forget that all those specialists create GPPs too - you are likely to get GPs a lot quicker if you get a good NatPark! Of course, it's not vital for victory - it's a strategic element with it's own pros and cons.

 

[Cusanus]

Which specialist type do you usually use ? In recent game I had 9 forest preserves which generated ~ 150 beakers per turn (with Oxford), very nice amount, but nothing game-braking as some previous posters described.

Saving Oxford (for probably hundreds of turns!) for your NP city is a horrible waste.

Even with modern era starts, I'm quite sure putting Oxford in the NP city will always be a poor choice.

- - -
The NP city for me usually is just an additional GP farm.
So I just use the specialists according to which GP I want.

[Basically, that's how to best use specialists anyway... ]

 

[Edzako]

That was Earth 1000 AD map, and I couldn't put it in my only good science city as I already had 2 national wonders in there. Still pulled quite easy Immortal win out of that one.

Also, not regarding horrid delay, why would NP city be bad combo with Oxford, don't you put Oxford in your GP farms anyway ?

 

[EsaKo]

That was Earth 1000 AD map, and I couldn't put it in my only good science city as I already had 2 national wonders in there. Still pulled quite easy Immortal win out of that one.

Also, not regarding horrid delay, why would NP city be bad combo with Oxford, don't you put Oxford in your GP farms anyway ?

I don't think it's that bad apart from horrid delay (unless you're FIN in which case you'll probably want it in a cottage farm). By the way, our user names are very similar

 

[Edzako]

I don't think it's that bad apart from horrid delay (unless you're FIN in which case you'll probably want it in a cottage farm). By the way, our user names are very similar

Indeed

 

[mc-red]

Which specialist type do you usually use ? In recent game I had 9 forest preserves which generated ~ 150 beakers per turn (with Oxford), very nice amount, but nothing game-braking as some previous posters described.

Engineers and Spies mostly in the late game.

One of the screenies above shows the industrial park build. I often build this too as the :sick: doesn't matter and you get one free engineer plus the slots. Can be useful late game.

Also if you need a specific GP for a late golden age can be useful to gear NP city for that situation.

 

[UWHabs]

Currently, I actually ended up with the NP in my cap. It just happened to have 5 plains forests that I never chopped, so I figured, meh, let's just keep them and NP it. Not the best Oxford cap, but it's not a bad one.

 

[magicwalker]

Plan to use it in an area you wouldn't otherwise develop, applies best to areas with lots of tundra.

1)Try not to road that area.
2)Build Forest Reserve improvements in forests bordering non-forested tiles to try and spread forests.
3)Build Lumbermill improvements in forests surrounding by forested tiles.

I don't know if there is any actual merit to this, but if you have the extra worker turns -you might as well drive yourself a little crazier.

 

[Cusanus]

Also, not regarding horrid delay, why would NP city be bad combo with Oxford, don't you put Oxford in your GP farms anyway ?

Because any half good cottage city generates far more science than those few scientists.

Maybe if you set up your GP farm post-biology.

 

[mariogreymist]

I often build the NP in a colonial city. I like to have one food resource (not zero, not two). Ideally, it will be all tundra forest with one irrigated corn at a corner of the bfc...but that's not going to happen much. You don't need to have a big population in your NP city: if it has 5 pop and 19 forest preserves, it will kick ass. This assumes you have access to US, and the ability to rush buildings. I also usually build Scotland Yard in my NP city, and max out the EP buildings. It's an effective way to keep the espionage slider at zero late in the game without crippling yourself.