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National Wonders - How many do you use?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by GoStu, Dec 29, 2013.

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How many National Wonders do you build?

  1. None, too busy going WIDE!

    2 vote(s)
    2.6%
  2. 1-2

    8 vote(s)
    10.5%
  3. 3-4

    19 vote(s)
    25.0%
  4. 5-6

    23 vote(s)
    30.3%
  5. 7-8

    12 vote(s)
    15.8%
  6. 9-10

    12 vote(s)
    15.8%
  1. GoStu

    GoStu King

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2013
    Messages:
    656
    Location:
    Calgary
    EDIT #1: I forgot the Circus Maximus. It is now in the list as a reminder.

    This subject's been in my head for a couple games now, thanks to the Wonder Elimination thread and just my own play experience. Of all the National Wonders, how many do you build over the course of the game?

    For Reference, here's a list of them:

    National College (Libraries in all Cities)
    National Epic (Monument in all cities)
    Heroic Epic (Barracks in all cities)
    Grand Temple (Temple in all cities, found religion)
    East India Company (Market in all cities)
    Ironworks (Workshop in all cities)
    Hermitage (Opera House in all cities)
    National Visitor's Center (Hotel in all cities)
    National Intelligence Agency (Police Station in all cities)
    Oxford University (University in all cities)
    Circus Maximus (Colosseum in all cities)

    For my own play, I'd say I usually build 4-6 of them, but some of them I really struggle with. The National College is too good not to use, and I always build a National Epic as it's so easy early game with Legalism. If I have a religion, I usually get the Grand Temple sooner or later. Oxford University I build later in the game.

    The rest vary somewhere between 'build occasionally', and 'almost never'. I often try for a Hermitage, and end up getting it sometime late. The Ironworks is nice, and I'll try to get it in my Military / Production city, but I find that I am often busy or not eligible to build it when I have a free moment. EDIT #1: I forgot the Circus Maximus, but when I do remember it exists, I build it. Generally it depends on my happiness levels, whether all the gold and hammers for the Colosseum are worth it.

    The 'almost never' ones are the rest. I never bother putting police stations in every city unless I'm playing very, very tall. The Heroic Epic seems really nice on paper, but I never find the production or money to put a Barracks in every city, and even if I did my military is usually built and I won't gain much from this Wonder. Visitor's center is only if I'm playing tall and touristy, but frankly I'd rather go wider and have more museums for Artifacts. I could see building it as France playing tall, but otherwise I'm not putting Hotels in cities with basically no great works or Culture improvements.

    What are everyone else's experiences with the National Wonders? Am I missing some really good Wonders or am I overbuilding them?
     
  2. Civsassin

    Civsassin Immortal

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Messages:
    831
    Location:
    Virginia Beach
    I typically get most of them. Some early game - NC for example. But the rest I usually get mid to late game. If I can get a religion and get tithe, I can usually buy the requisite buildings once the cash is rolling in.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
     
  3. GhostSalsa

    GhostSalsa Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    1,010
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Oh man Grand Temple almost never. Being that its requisite the temple is one of the most over-priced buildings in the game - 100 hammers and 2gpt per city for 2 faith give me a break. Disgusting, stupid, overpriced building, like so many buildings. "Oh it's in so and so era so it should cost this many hammers even though it does almost nothing" - the devs. Totally different on Piety of course but then who really cares about Grand Temple if you ran piety??? More pressure from holy city is not an attractive use of hammers.

    Heroic Epic is another junk investment - even assuming you already have barracks up there is no point anywhere in the game where it makes sense to delay building something else - either important buildings that will increase production and science, strengthening your army later - or immediate extra units for a war you are about to actually start - for this hunk of trash.

    All of these wonders are over-priced for wide empires, who benefit less from them anyway due to diffusion of population and resources from capital - but Library is OP so you are forced to get it and Hermitage is usually worth the hustle.
     
  4. temprus

    temprus Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2013
    Messages:
    72
    Before I got lost in mod doodling, most of my games went long enough were I ended up making all the national wonders.
     
  5. Doctor Doom

    Doctor Doom Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2013
    Messages:
    187
    National College is a must, I try to aim for it to be in a city with a mountain.

    National Epic is great for some extra GS points.

    Oxford I normally bulb radio or satellites with it.

    I don't normally grab any others, maybe the grand temple when I'm piety ICSing. :)
     
  6. GKShaman

    GKShaman Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    Messages:
    349
    Everybody should build east India it's a base +4 gold and makes other nations want to send routes to that city and thus maintain peace.

    College always do.

    Honestly the only two I don't find awesome is national intelligence and visitors center.

    Intelligence since spying isn't destructive/ detrimental enough to a tech leader nation.

    Visitors since I haven't played culturally in awhile/ don't see the need for hotel unless one plays culturally.

    Side notes ironworks in an already developed capital with religious community! Gad Zeus!
     
  7. GhostSalsa

    GhostSalsa Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    1,010
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    I understand the intention of this mechanic and also think the Patch notes said the AI should focus more on these kind of returns - but even on a totally peaceful game I usually find my EIC cities sitting around with 0-2 AI trade routes all game anyway. Completely indiscernible impact. I still usually take EIC for the 4 gold which is not bad for the hammer cost considering how expensive gold buildings are.
     
  8. GKShaman

    GKShaman Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
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    349
    I've had completely different experience with eic. I usually try to actively trade. Settle my cities near a variety of resources and near rivers fir the trade bonuses. Build mints markets caravanersary. Check best routes and start routes. See where ai send routes to my city. And they do. In all games as long as a city is placed in a close location with a good diversity I get trade routes.

    Also in a game after I build eic I usually get that city with 8 trade routes 4 from me to other cigs and 4 from others to me.
     
  9. krc

    krc King

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2010
    Messages:
    890
    Always: National College, National Epic, Ironworks, Oxford University.
    Others depend on the VC and how long the game lasts. But there's always at least one more that I want.
     
  10. Civsassin

    Civsassin Immortal

    Joined:
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    Virginia Beach
    Going for shrines, temples, and the grand temple is obviously helpful if you found a religion, but it is also useful to take advantage of the benefits of having other religions in your cities pagodas, cathedrals, etc. Additionally, faith allows you to purchase great people. Why wouldn't you want to be able to purchase great people? The grand temple is a no brainer.

    Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk
     
  11. TheMarshmallowBear

    TheMarshmallowBear Benelovent Chieftain of the BearKingdom

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2006
    Messages:
    7,525
    Location:
    Inside an Ikanda.
    --- (Always)
    National College
    Oxford University
    --- (National Epic is most likely, the other two only if going for Cultural)
    National's Visitor Center
    Hermitage
    National Epic
    --- (Maybe for Diplomatic Win)
    National Intelligence Agency
    --- (Ocassionaly)
    Grand Temple
    --- (If I can, I never put it as a goal)
    East India Company
    Ironworks
    --- (Don't think I've ever built it)
    Heroic Epic
     
  12. qemist

    qemist Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2011
    Messages:
    562
    +8 fpt can be handy if your religion picks give you something useful to spend faith on. Jesuit Education, for example. If you have piety and religious centers I don't think temples are always a bad investment.
     
  13. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    5,317
    Everyone's forgotten Circus Maximus - also usually worth it since you'll tend to build Colosseums (at least, I do). The only ones I'll generally build buildings for are Ironworks, Circus, and, if playing culturally, National Visitors Center (Hotels aren't that hammer-intensive and have no maintenance cost).

    College, Oxford, National Epic and Hermitage just require buildings I'm building in every city anyway, regardless of strategy, as well as being important in their own right. The same's generally true of East India Company, but I tend not to build the NW itself all that often.

    I do go for Grand Temple when possible; that you have to be playing Piety for it is obvious, but then Piety is a strong second tree.
     
  14. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
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    4,450
    Location:
    Toronto
    Circus, College, and Oxford are a must in every game.
    Ironworks I build almost every game - I like to have high prod cities. Works best when I already have a high production city and want it to be even more.
    The rest are not priorities.
    Temple I'll build if I get a religion, but it's pretty low on my priority list.
    Hermitage and Visitor I haven't played enough BNW games to know if they're targeted or not. Going culturally they're a must, but going for war I don't care about them.
    The National Epic i can usually squeeze into a city sometime in the game, but probably 1/4 of the time I just delay until I built it because I'm bored.
    EIC I'd probably only grab if I had a city that had nothing else to do. Very low on my list.
    I wasn't even aware there was a police station one, so that answers that question.
     
  15. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2012
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    I usually build 6-7 of those, with the Grand Temple being dependant on whether I have Piety or not.

    Always build
    National College (Libraries in all Cities)
    National Epic (Monument in all cities)
    East India Company (Market in all cities)
    Ironworks (Workshop in all cities)
    Oxford University (University in all cities)

    Frequently build
    Hermitage (Opera House in all cities)
    Grand Temple (Temple in all cities, found religion)

    Rarely build
    National Visitor's Center (Hotel in all cities)
    Heroic Epic (Barracks in all cities)
    National Intelligence Agency (Police Station in all cities)
     
  16. gashad

    gashad Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    17
    Always:

    Oxford
    National College
    Ironworks

    Usually

    National Epic
    Heroic Epic
    Circus Maximus

    When going culture:

    Hermitage
    National Visitors center

    Rarely

    National Intelligence Agency
    East India Company

    Never

    Grand Temple

    So usually around 5-6
     
  17. phillipwyllie

    phillipwyllie Wannabe Deity

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    Location:
    4 Hexes from FoY
    Always build them all except the National Intelligence Agency.
     
  18. GoStu

    GoStu King

    Joined:
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    656
    Location:
    Calgary
    Thanks for the reminder about the Circus, I had a feeling i was forgetting one, but couldn't put my finger on it.
     
  19. Denkt

    Denkt Left permamently

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    3,654
    I often build some of them espacially the early ones because I useally got so few cities at that time I actually can build them however Im not sure if its ever a good idea to build any of them because you could allways use the hammers on millitary and go for early kill which if played correctly I think is allways the safest thing to do if you want to win.
     
  20. Silverman6083

    Silverman6083 History-Lover

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2013
    Messages:
    669
    Location:
    Earth
    Always Build
    NC
    Oxford
    Ironworks
    East Indies
    National Epic
    Usually Build
    Grand Temple
    Circus Maximus
    Heroic Epic
    Sometimes Build
    Hermitage
    Rarely Build
    NVC
     

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