Simon Darkshade
Mysterious City of Gold
Well, it was not for lack of trying.
Y'know, boy, one day, ye may be able to tell the difference between sarcasm, a sense of humour, and reality.
Have a nice day.
Nationalism is not Good
- Thread starter newfangle
- Start date
Well, it was not for lack of trying.
Y'know, boy, one day, ye may be able to tell the difference between sarcasm, a sense of humour, and reality.
Have a nice day.
newfangle
hates you.
Sent you a PM.
Alcibiaties of Athenae
Imperator
Again you confuse an economic union with a political one.
The USA doesn't have seperate armies for each state, nor currency, nor do people speak different languages from state to state, and let me assure you, your nation's behavior seems far more backward to us then you think.
At least two EU nations have protested the Euro.
I'm sorry, Europe ISN'T a country, I don't know why you keep insisting it is.
Sorry, but the EU web site makes it clear what the EU is:
http://europa.eu.int/inst-en.htm
Your not a country dear boy, stop trying to claim to be one.
Nonsense, I respond to ultra-nationalistic nonsense that some Europeans like to post.
Again, I'm sorry, but you saying your more progressive doesn't make it so, Europe is still striving to reach were the US was in 1783, one country, and your not even close yet.
?
Britain was freed from it's monarchy a long time ago.
Britain is also far closer to the US then it will ever be to the continent.
I know you like your dream, and your welcome to it, but it changes nothing, Europe is still a large number of countries, not a single nation.
MrPresident
Anglo-Saxon Liberal
At the moment I completely agree with you. However in the future (near future that is) the EU will become a country.
We are a strange lot.
No it wasn't. Unless something has happened while I was asleep Britain still has a monarchy. And regardless of what people may say it has an awful lot of power, it just chooses not to use it. And you are not free from a monarchy until you are a republic.
Are we talking geographically?
Damien
Emperor
Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae
Again you confuse an economic union with a political one.
The USA doesn't have seperate armies for each state, nor currency, nor do people speak different languages from state to state, and let me assure you, your nation's behavior seems far more backward to us then you think.
At least two EU nations have protested the Euro.
I'm sorry, Europe ISN'T a country, I don't know why you keep insisting it is.
>>>It's partly political since french,greeks,etc are european citizens and Brussel cranks a lot of decrees out.Also,any justice decision in any member country can be broken by the European Court.
your more progressive doesn't make it so, Europe is still striving to reach were the US was in 1783, one country, and your not even close yet.?
>>>reached what?a political union?We didn't fully achieve it it's true but I still think that Europe is more progressist than America on other matters
I know you like your dream, and your welcome to it, but it changes nothing, Europe is still a large number of countries, not a single nation.
>>>On the italian referendum for/against the Maastricht Treaty,the question was:are you for a federal Europe.More than 80% voted yes.Brussel is playing with us,using a hybrid and undemocratic European Union but I hope it is stopped soon and turns into a federal and democratic Europe.
amadeus
Bishop of Bio-Dome
The European Union has gone way off from it's original intended purpose, which was free trade between member nations. Now Brussels seems to try to be the legislative body for all of Europe.
God
God
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2001
- Messages
- 1,354
Technically Britain maybe a monarchy, but the monarchs haven't had much power for over 100 years. Since the Magna Carta was signed, the monarchs haves slowly lost power. And after the Civil War, they were really nothing.
@newfangle: Although I agree with you on most things, and you usually have great ideas, but this time I think you're somewhat wrong. Nationalism is prevalent in the world. We wouldn't have nations then. But nationalism that exists today is kind of a different nationalism then before. It exists in a different form than it did in Europe 150 years ago. Take for example: I was just thinking about Pakistan, my home country. Why are we so nationalistic? The country is made up of different people. Half the population is from India (like me) and the other half already lived in the region. But all these people are different. They got different languages, customs, looks, etc. Yet they are still under one nation. Shouldn't the nation be further subdivided into smaller nations where each different people live? In Europe it worked because all the different language speaking people got their own countries (most of them).
So in some ways it doesn't exist in other parts of the world. What makes an Arab from Kuwait, different from an Arab from UAE? They are the same people, same language, religion, customs. What makes an Argetinian different from a person from Paraguay? Same people basically. One nation I can think off that does exist on nationalistic terms is Israel. Basically a group of similar people in language and religion etc. got their own nation. But then those Jews had been living over Asia, Europe and Africa. So shouldn't a Jewish family from Italy be Italian. They most likely spoke Italian, had Italian customs, etc. except the religion factor. So then even Israel may not fit it too well. Note- I'm not making this into Israel discussion. It was one of the first nations I could think off not in Europe which is based more on nationalism. Many of the other nations in the world are just a result of the Europeans dividing them up whichever way they wanted too, when they left.
In some ways nationalism does exist, in others it doesn't.
Edit: Just realized where nationalism does exist. In Palestine, and in Kashmire, and in Chechnya, and in the Basque and in Quebec.
Gerard
Prince
Carl Sagan said that the human brain was a map of the evolution: from the primitive brain of the reptile, going up layer to layer until the cerebral bark.
I like the analogy. Continuing with her, the nationalism would be the equivalent to the attitude of a dog marking its territory.
I believe that I understand your idea, newfangle, and I agree on the concept, but not in the times.
In fact I believe that today there is a growth of that irrational nationalism (blink says Mephisto ).
The current human being has among 3 million years (not very "human", in fact) and 40.000 or less, according to the concept of "human" that is used. In 15 billion years it is very little to evolve and to overcome obstacles like the nationalism or the superstition.
I like the analogy. Continuing with her, the nationalism would be the equivalent to the attitude of a dog marking its territory.
I believe that I understand your idea, newfangle, and I agree on the concept, but not in the times.
In fact I believe that today there is a growth of that irrational nationalism (blink says Mephisto
).The current human being has among 3 million years (not very "human", in fact) and 40.000 or less, according to the concept of "human" that is used. In 15 billion years it is very little to evolve and to overcome obstacles like the nationalism or the superstition.
Well, For the progressive part, I can say that Europe is just returning backwards when it comes to Anti Semitism.
It's not decreasing, it's only rising.
For the Racism part, when Jews wanted to return to their homes in Poland for example after the Holocaust ended, some were killed and othered scared away by the Polish.
After 6 million of them have died, it gave the feeling to the Polish and some other nations that the lives of those who did survive are pretty meaningless.
So it didn't end with WW2, it only increased.
But now it had much less use since not much Jews were left.
Today there are only about 4,000 Jews in Poland, so there's not much point in Anti Semitism.
Still, when I was in Poland last week we visited many Statues in remembrance to the Holocaust and one in Warsaw had "**** the Jews" (Or something similiar) sprayed on it.
Still, Poland is today the lighter case. There are much more Anti Semite groups, people and remarks in other countries than in Poland.
It is increasingly rising in France, Germany and the Netherlands for example.
In Channel 1 (Israel) there was an interview in the News with a Jew who lives in Holand. It was in parts, a question and then some filming of Anti Semitism in the Netherlands, and then another question, and another pause of Filming.
Anyway, in that interview that guy tells his story how he was Attacked by Anti semites a few times, received Anti Semite comments in the street and such.
In the end of the Interview, the last question he was asked is: "Even after all that, are you proud of being Jewish?" - He answered: "I'm not Jewish, I'm Turkish".
Damien, you are coming from a very Naive point of view.
You think Anti Semitism and hostility ended with WW2 - You are mistaken, even now it is increasing.
After WW2 for more than a Several years most Europeans had nothing but disrespect for Jews who survived and stayed in Europe.
A lot of the Holocaust Survivors wanted to return to their homes in Europe, but those who tried to win their home back were either killed, or threatened to death to sell it for nothing, or beaten up.
So Anti Semitism got the Job done and got rid of most of the Jews, which almost no one liked at the time, and many don't like them even today, and that group of many will only increase if the Jewish community will be as big and as prospering today as it was before WW2.
Before WW2 Poland had a community of Three and a Half million Jews, and today there are only 4,000. No wonder Hostility is decreasing, there's almost no one to be hostile at.
Still, even today, a German party based their political Agenda towards the Elections on remarks that border Anti Semitism, such as that the Fault for the Rising Anti Semitism lies on Sharon, The PM of the Jewish State, and that guy who is the head of that Jewish Organization in Germany, I think his name is Emil or something.
Very progressive, run your election on remarks saying the Fault for the New Anti Semitism lies within two of the most Influential Jews - The Jewish PM and the head of the Jewish Community Organization thingy in Germany.
Damien
Emperor
It's only a minority but anyways,that topic was beaten to death.
When I say Europe,I should've said Western Europe it's true.
You took the worst case:In Poland 3 people on 4 go regularly to the church and priests continue to spread anti-semitism.
I don't know what's shocking about critics saying that Anti-semitism is raising because of the Israeli PM and policy.
And once again you focused on antisemitism whereas it was about progressism in Europe.
You were in Poland,were you stoned by poles?Did people know that you were jewish?
When I say Europe,I should've said Western Europe it's true.
You took the worst case:In Poland 3 people on 4 go regularly to the church and priests continue to spread anti-semitism.
I don't know what's shocking about critics saying that Anti-semitism is raising because of the Israeli PM and policy.
And once again you focused on antisemitism whereas it was about progressism in Europe.
You were in Poland,were you stoned by poles?Did people know that you were jewish?
knowltok2
Deity
1. Because what it means is that people are hating people of semitic ancestory because of the political actions of one government. France and Germany haven't had government policies that are 100% favorable to the US recently, but I'm certainly not about to become Anti-Germanic, nor Anti-Gaulic. I don't think many of my countrymen are either. I doubt the local Oktoberfest gets many anti-germanic comments, protests, or acts of violence.
2. I don't know about others, but to me, anti-semitism isn't very progressive. In fact, it would be pretty much the opposite of progrssivism. If it is on the rise in Europe, it is hard to at the same time say that progressivism is on the rise.
Sorry but some states in Western Europe still hold some ideals that are not that progressive.
Poland was the worst case, but today the Anti Semitism over there is barely noticed relatively, due to the wave of attacks in countries such as France, the Netherlands and widespread Anti Semite grafitti in countries like Austria.
It's not shocking, it's predictable.
But it's not normal. Blaming the head of the Jewish Community for Anti Semitism? Come on
And I'm sorry to tell you, but if someone focuses on the Israeli policy as a cause for Anti Semitism he needs treatment.
It might be a cause for criticism against Israelis, but not Jews, and not a cause for attacks by Europeans.
Arabs are a different case.
The fact that Anti Semitism is still live and well in Europe shows that it isn't that progressive.
Nothing happened to me in Poland.
But some expeditions return saying they were spitted at or provocated.
As I said, Poland is less violent today to Jews for many reasons, as to comparing it with France or the Netherlands.
Damien
Emperor
>>>The fact that a bunch of crooks burn synagogues etc doesn't mean that Europe ain't progressist,luckily.They are very harmful I know but they are a minority.
It was about Anti Semitism. That's exactly what I said, don't distort it.
I'll try and reach for an article about it for you, but some time has passed so don't hold your breath.
It doesn't matter that they are a minority, Europe means Europe means 100% of Europe.
Same goes for Western Europe.
If you want to say that "The enlightened majority of western Europeans who are not racist nor anti semite are a progressive community" I won't say nay.
But you're not saying that, you're saying something else.
Damien
Emperor
I don't know that party and didn't hear about that speech but to say that anti-semitism is on the rise because of the Israeli policy is,to me,true.
Jewish Europeans shouldn't get annoyed because of that since they have nothing to do with Israel but you know,I don't think the ones burning synagogues make the difference between Israeli jews and non-israeli jews.Even Israelis shouldn't be annoyed.
Israel has handled the palestinian problem in a disgusting way(as you said).For example,before the Intifada, palestinians were used as a cheap labor and then returned in their refugee camps every evening.
And when I say europeans,I mean most europeans.There are always exceptions.
Alcibiaties of Athenae
Imperator
Damien, your just not getting it, hating people for WHAT they are is wrong, it's NEVER justified, no matter what some nation is doing.
Iceblaze is right, and it's what I was alluding too, Europe is FAR from progressive, it's attitude is REGRESSIVE.
Iceblaze is right, and it's what I was alluding too, Europe is FAR from progressive, it's attitude is REGRESSIVE.
Cloudyvortex
Prince
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2002
- Messages
- 497
I guess it all boils down to technology flying faster than we are. We are using computers and cruise missiles but posess Paleolithic instincts. Only time will tell the outcome.
CurtSibling
ENEMY ACE™
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2001
- Messages
- 29,455
Racism is racism.
Europeans hating Jewish folk is racism.
Jewish folk hating all Europeans is racsim.
Well, it is in my book,
obviously there is a double standard here...
Don't become what you preach against, Iceblaze.
Europeans hating Jewish folk is racism.
Jewish folk hating all Europeans is racsim.
Well, it is in my book,
obviously there is a double standard here...
Don't become what you preach against, Iceblaze.
God
God
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2001
- Messages
- 1,354
@Damien: Iceblaze is correct. There is an increase in anti-semitism, and anti-foreigners. Although it is amusing that the Asian foreingers are doing all the dirty work (I guess the Europeans rather do it themselves ). Its hard to accept but thats the way it is today.
). Its hard to accept but thats the way it is today.
