1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Nationalist Strategy

Discussion in 'Strategy Section' started by jma22tb, Apr 10, 2016.

  1. jma22tb

    jma22tb Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2011
    Messages:
    489
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    United States
    Hey guys!

    This is my original strategy, the Nationalist Strategy, and I have, like my new Imperialist Strategy, uploaded the details of this strategy to Google Documents and expanded upon it in various ways.

    A brief overview for Nationalist is you pursue economic, military, cultural, and scientific power to create an unstoppable super-state. You only slightly value diplomacy, not ignoring it entirely, but are much more concerned with Wonders, policies, and tourism than having a large group of allies. Some of the civilizations can be aggressive from turn 1, like the Aztecs, while others may want to wait until later on in the game before conquering, like France.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PF1diKcA5vlKWvaUfSEAxXFX8TA-KtE__LsVqngYn3g/edit?usp=sharing

    Hope you enjoy conquering the world while building a social utopia!
     
  2. Bromar1

    Bromar1 King

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2015
    Messages:
    815
    Great write up! One thing though, I'm pretty sure that puppeted cities still do increase your tech costs.
     
  3. jma22tb

    jma22tb Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2011
    Messages:
    489
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    United States
    You're right. Edited the Puppet section to reflect that.

    I still recommend doing that because policy costs are the big thing. The sooner you can get to Order, the better.
     
  4. dschur

    dschur Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    USA
    I gotta say. Authority/Aesthetics is astounding ly powerful. I went Ottomans as you suggested and just dominated. I think I need to up the difficulty before I use that combo again.

    Nice write up
     
  5. hokath

    hokath King

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2013
    Messages:
    947
    Location:
    London
    Enjoyed reading this!
     
  6. jma22tb

    jma22tb Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2011
    Messages:
    489
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    United States
    Yeah the Ottomans are deceptively strong. I didn't really think about Tanzimat that much over the CBP's development, but the internal trade routes play out very profitably. That siege foundry though... Catapults that level non-capitals and can take Capitals efficiently is dominant.

    In the first game I played with them, I conquered Ethiopia, Shoshone, Korea, and a city each from Babylon and Brazil before the Industrial Era.

    I wasn't sorry xD
     
  7. jma22tb

    jma22tb Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2011
    Messages:
    489
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    United States
    Thanks!
     
  8. jma22tb

    jma22tb Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2011
    Messages:
    489
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    United States
    Added a new approach to the OP about Balkanization and Liberation wars. This lets you stay "tall" for most of the game to crank out techs and policies, then cash in on your weakened rivals later on with a conquest campaign!
     
  9. jma22tb

    jma22tb Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2011
    Messages:
    489
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    United States
    Update.

    I added the Dutch, Spain, and Portugal to the list of civs not to use because they are optimally utilized through building alliances with city states and trading with them.

    I also added a list of optimal first policies for every viable civ built around their UA, UU, UB, UI, etc.
     
  10. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    17,848
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Little Rock
    Nice work here. You might consider branching out and making your civ-specific strategies unique threads.

    G
     
  11. jma22tb

    jma22tb Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2011
    Messages:
    489
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    United States
    Thanks!

    I might just do that. It's fun to apply this approach to different civs with different challenges.

    I've been playing around with different civs than normal lately, and I have to give you guys props on how different they all feel.

    The Inca, for example, is a lot of fun to play with those mountain and hill advantages. It's so weird being able to zoom around terrain that would be HORRIBLE to fight in with anyone else.

    India is so low maintenance on spreading religion haha. It feels **weird** to not have to make any missionaries. I had all four of my satellite cities feeding food to Delhi, Asceticism, and that pressure was just... wow.

    This project really is something special.

    Edit: added a link to extensive battle tactics and a Promotions section for units.

    Edit 2: added England to the list of civs to reserve for diplomatic strategies. Statecraft gives spies for a reason - they're better used as CS election riggers.
     
  12. jma22tb

    jma22tb Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2011
    Messages:
    489
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    United States
    Updated again:

    After trying out a lot of civs recently, I've decided to scrap the Early and Mid strategy section and reworked the Policy section.

    Every civ is much more nuanced and unique than the standardized approach I was using with 5 cities. Tradition civs don't really benefit from actually settling a lot of cities. You can guarantee a Global Monopoly with only two cities most of the time, and with Pyramids you don't even to make a settler yourself!

    So I've replaced that with a guide on each policy and how to use them for our purposes. You'll be surprised about Progress and if you try that you'll be amazed at how differently it can be played than the standard settler spam approach. You'll find it not only addressed happiness, but catapults you into a tech lead and gives you the best labor force in the game!

    I also added Morocco to the list of unviable civs because they need resource diversity to get the best yields, which is best accomplished through Tradition, Statecraft, and Industry. Unlike the Ottomans, they don't really do as well with conquest. Any civ or CS they conquer reduces their trade route diversity.

    A series of civs were changed as well regarding recommendations.

    A few:

    - Denmark is in the same spot with Jelling Stones. They can conquer very well, even without Authority bonuses. Berserker comes pretty late anyway, so might as well enhance GP.

    - America should not settler spam. They are a Progress - Aesthetics Tall Great Works Wonder spammer. I had them totally wrong.

    - Inca are way too good at high altitude combat to not use Authority for them. Especially with Slinger. You can still use Progress to get Terrace farms if you want, but speed and mobility in the worst terrain in the game for everyone else? That's a warmonger's dream!

    Just want to say that the CBO team has really come up with something incredible with the gameplay here. Progress and Authority in particular are magnificent and flexible policies. I had no idea how wrong I was playing them until recently xD.

    This guide should be higher quality now
     
  13. Legen

    Legen King

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2015
    Messages:
    759
    Good work with the guide, informative and enjoyable to read.

    About Industry, I think it still fits the nationalist strategy because it also boosts internal trade routes by 33% with Mercantilism, useful for Progress civs to keep their science with :c5food:food trade routes to their :c5capital:capital. Mercantilism is also the policy that grants :c5science:science and :c5culture:culture in Industry, making it a top science policy for Progress civs.

    The two social trees also have strong synergies around building production for Wide Progress-Industry empires. With enough cities, the Industry opener, Entrepreneurship and Division of Labor outweight the extra income on international trade each, especially as your empire advances throughout the eras.
     
  14. jma22tb

    jma22tb Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2011
    Messages:
    489
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    United States
    Thanks!

    There is some flexibility in how you can use Industry, but I find that religion can get the job done earlier with Holy Law, Cathedrals, Tithes, and Thrift.

    The problem I run into is that I know I'm not going to use all of the Industry policy as Nationalist, whereas with Rationalism and Imperialism I know I will. It isn't a catastrophe of a situation by any means, but it's not as optimal.
     
  15. Legen

    Legen King

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2015
    Messages:
    759
    My view about Industry is that it's about having high production and high gold conversion efficiency, not necessarily high gold income. You make efficient investments in buildings to receive a refund later from Industry's opener; those buildings are done faster, making the refund come sooner. Any spare gold can go to purchasing units in your core military city with a discount, so you're outproducing non-Industry civs.

    Also, Piety civs can make good use of Industry as well: you can add Mercantilism with Piety's finisher for an increased +66% Yields from internal routes, as long as they originate from your capital or a holy city. Piety-Industry can then provide a notable :c5production:production output to your military city and lots of :c5food:food to your specialist cities, especially after conquering populous coastal holy cities for extra trade hubs.

    By not using all of the policies of Industry, if you are referring to the international trade routes, then consider it just a safeguard for worst-case scenarios, which the nationalist strategy tries to be immune from. The international trade routes will be there for flexibility (spreading your corporation, getting the bonus tourism modifier for trade routes) or emergencies (like a Global Peace Accord proposal increasing your unit maintainance cost, or falling behind in science). A nationalist can always rely on Mercantlism and it can be the first "trade route oriented" policy to pick, especially for Progress civs.

    In fact, the naval international one is the last policy you can pick in Industry (Protecionism), so it's not a good idea to rely on it when choosing this social tree, especially if you suspect you're not going to complete it in time for when Ideologies hit.
     
  16. jma22tb

    jma22tb Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2011
    Messages:
    489
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    United States
    Yeah, Industry is a very good policy. It does have great synergy with Progress and Piety, but there are no benefits to your military besides being able to afford and produce more troops.

    Giving up the free promotions from Imperialism, free garrisons, additional culture and science per military building, free factories on conquest, faster embark speed, faster great general and admiral rates, and Brandenburg Gate for more XP in your military city per unit is too much of a military advantage to pass up IMO.

    Same goes for Rationalism and the massive boost to science, gold per specialist, enhanced Golden Ages, additional yields per villages and strategic resources, and a 33% Great Scientist rate. Authority starts need that pretty badly to keep up on tech, especially if they conquer a couple of neighbors.

    I can see it's value, but we are endeavoring to have all four of those pillars of military, cultural, scientific, and economic power. Progress-Piety-Industry is heavily economic with some scientific and culture power. If you take a military religion that can work, but the combination of what you're giving up and the Wonders for those policies are hard to refuse for me.
     
  17. Txurce

    Txurce Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Messages:
    8,263
    Location:
    Venice, California
    Does this only work on Progress? I wouldn't think so, but have had a hard time sending food caravans back to my capital (although I can send them from the capital back to another city). Any explanation for this?
     
  18. jma22tb

    jma22tb Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2011
    Messages:
    489
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    United States
    It's Progress specific because of the capital science / population growth from the opener. Granary and a caravan is all you need to send food over, assuming your cities are connected by continuous land. If you have a capital that's land locked and a sea city you won't be able to send a food route though.
     
  19. Txurce

    Txurce Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Messages:
    8,263
    Location:
    Venice, California
    Thanks. On a separate note, is there a way to reverse WC resolutions like Decolonization? I lost on that while winning World Ideology.

    In fact, reverse anything? I've seen sanctions reversed by the AI, but don't see how to do it myself.
     
  20. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    17,848
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Little Rock
    Decolonization is a one-shot thing, so no, you can't reverse it, as it doesn't 'linger.'

    G
     

Share This Page