Naval Units Rework Project

[Hydromancerx]

EDIT: Ok, all looks fairly good except I'd swap the art applications on the Corvette and Cutter. This would make the military corvette much more like it's destroyer and cruiser counterparts and the Cutter, being the anti-crime ship, could actually have a 'corralling' function to its 'wings' that enables it to grip onto other ships and aid in boarding.

Ok that sounds fine.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@TB

Ok so clanky4 uploaded some more Starcraft 2 units.

Now we have a wider range to choose from. Newly added are ...

- Probe
- Hellion
- Sentry
- Protoss Carrier
- Warp Prism

So now we could technically have units more like your other list.

EDIT: Based on your first list ...

Levitation Ships
- Destroyer = Starcraft 2 -Protoss Sentry
- Corvette = Starcraft 2 -Protoss Warp Prisim
- Cruiser = Starcraft 2 - Protoss Carrier
- Cutter = Starcraft 2 -Protoss Phoenix
- Battleship = Starcraft 2 - Terran Battlecruiser
- Carrier = Babylon 5 - Earth Alliance Avenger
- Submarine = Starcraft 2 - Protoss Void Ray
- Pirate = Babylon 5 - Earth Alliance Aries Class Starfury
- Transport = Mass Effect - Shuttle Dropship
- Medical = Nanite Repair Cloud
- Troop Ship = ?
- Cargo = Babylon 5 - Earth Alliance Sagittarius

What do you think?

 

[Thunderbrd]

Any chance you could take square snips of each ship as they show in game and show them each individually here with their names attached so we can be very clear as to which is which?

Will comment later when I can but that would be very helpful.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Any chance you could take square snips of each ship as they show in game and show them each individually here with their names attached so we can be very clear as to which is which?

Will comment later when I can but that would be very helpful.

Here ya go ...

 

[Thunderbrd]

Just from that pic alone I can see it working out. Some skin adjustments and size adjustments to get them in line with each other better may be in order so they don't look quite as clashing as they do at the moment. But I'm thinking its the coloring throwing me off more than the actual shaping.

Just one more to find the right fit for. I've been having a tough time with this one too. (the troop ship) One of those Alliance ships (presuming we'll be seeing a whole different approach to the Gravity Drive ships) may well be best for that... it does look like the way they might design an interplanetary (within the solar system) travel cruise ship. Weapons aren't immediately obvious and from what I could see they were mostly laser fire anyhow. Troop ships would be large and have minimal defenses.

One thing that strikes me a bit (I do like the pirate we have there though) is that the Warp Prism now that it's been converted looks like a really good model for the pirate. Meanwhile that top ship in the 2nd Starcraft collection (what is that, the probe?) looks like it would make a good Corvette model. Would that work for you? The pirate there actually looks like it could actually BE a naval ship from an earlier era so we could move it to the automated ship line or something if we still want to use it.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Just from that pic alone I can see it working out. Some skin adjustments and size adjustments to get them in line with each other better may be in order so they don't look quite as clashing as they do at the moment. But I'm thinking its the coloring throwing me off more than the actual shaping.

Yeah since they were taken as a screeshot from NIFSkope the size is irrelevant. They can be resized to any size we want. As for texture, I am sure sparth could adjust them to all be in one color scheme.

Just one more to find the right fit for. I've been having a tough time with this one too. (the troop ship) One of those Alliance ships (presuming we'll be seeing a whole different approach to the Gravity Drive ships) may well be best for that... it does look like the way they might design an interplanetary (within the solar system) travel cruise ship. Weapons aren't immediately obvious and from what I could see they were mostly laser fire anyhow. Troop ships would be large and have minimal defenses.

Do ou have a particular E.A. model in mind? I looked though them and did not think any resembled a cruse ship.

One thing that strikes me a bit (I do like the pirate we have there though) is that the Warp Prism now that it's been converted looks like a really good model for the pirate. Meanwhile that top ship in the 2nd Starcraft collection (what is that, the probe?) looks like it would make a good Corvette model. Would that work for you? The pirate there actually looks like it could actually BE a naval ship from an earlier era so we could move it to the automated ship line or something if we still want to use it.

For the picture it goes ...

Top Row: 2 Hellions (They are wheeled vehicles)
Middle Row: 2 Warp Prisms, 2 Protoss Carrier (with a messed up ring graphic that should not be there)
Bottom Row: 2 Sentries, 2 Probes

If you talking about the Hellion, I think that is a horrible model for a ship.

As for the Pirate part, the problem is the unit is flying. The levitation tech is first at this stage I thought. How are we going to explain a floating pirate ship before the invention of levitation?

 

[Thunderbrd]

Do you have a particular E.A. model in mind? I looked though them and did not think any resembled a cruse ship.

The Alliance Cruiser looks as much like a cruise ship as it does a war ship imo.

Another option might be that Taurus graphic we need to remove from the Carrier... That alone might make a lot of sense for a hovering cruise ship.

For the picture it goes ...

Top Row: 2 Hellions (They are wheeled vehicles)
Middle Row: 2 Warp Prisms, 2 Protoss Carrier (with a messed up ring graphic that should not be there)
Bottom Row: 2 Sentries, 2 Probes

If you talking about the Hellion, I think that is a horrible model for a ship.

As for the Pirate part, the problem is the unit is flying. The levitation tech is first at this stage I thought. How are we going to explain a floating pirate ship before the invention of levitation?

Well... since I can only see it from the front, that makes sense regarding the Hellion. I couldn't see the wheels. From the front it looks like a great warship.

I wonder how the Probe might look if it were blown up considerably... perhaps it might suit the Corvette. Are there other Starcraft models we aren't yet including here that could suit the Corvette otherwise? Even that Medevac could do it and make it look really good in the process. We do have a number of helicopter models to work with to fill the medevac role you're looking to fill on that line.

From the angle I'm seeing that Pirate ship it looks like it might be something that can be lowered to water level and look like it could be a workable Jet engine catamaran style ship with a torpedo under the craft. (I presume you were talking about the part where I was suggesting to move the currently designated Lev pirate to an earlier stage where the ships don't hover.)


EDIT: Also... what do you think about swapping the Phoenix and the Sentry roles? The Sentry isn't sitting terribly well for me as a destroyer and despite the rationale I gave about the 'wings' of the Phoenix earlier, that model does look a bit more Destroyerish than the Sentry and the Sentry looks a bit more Law Enforcementish to me.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Are there other Starcraft models we aren't yet including here that could suit the Corvette otherwise?

Well the Protoss Probe I guess. I don't know if it fits well for that. Also there is the
Observer, but not sure if that fits either.

From the angle I'm seeing that Pirate ship it looks like it might be something that can be lowered to water level and look like it could be a workable Jet engine catamaran style ship with a torpedo under the craft. (I presume you were talking about the part where I was suggesting to move the currently designated Lev pirate to an earlier stage where the ships don't hover.)

Would have to see it in game to see how high it floats off the ground. IF made for FF it might be half way into the ground.

EDIT: Also... what do you think about swapping the Phoenix and the Sentry roles? The Sentry isn't sitting terribly well for me as a destroyer and despite the rationale I gave about the 'wings' of the Phoenix earlier, that model does look a bit more Destroyerish than the Sentry and the Sentry looks a bit more Law Enforcementish to me.

It could go either way for me. Just was following your suggestions from earlier.

Note that the sentry could be modified to be without that back ball thingy. The 3 parts are not even connected to each other.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Well the Protoss Probe I guess. I don't know if it fits well for that. Also there is the
Observer, but not sure if that fits either.

Can we get an ingame pic of the Probe blown up to a moderate respectable combat ship size?

The Observer would be perfect for the new Swarm Ships. I've begun including them...
Check this out! Down at the bottom I added them in. Did the tech prereqs for them on the tech page too.

Would have to see it in game to see how high it floats off the ground. IF made for FF it might be half way into the ground.

As God-Emperor has shown, that CAN be manipulated - recall he did that with our Eagles and Hawks. To get it right we'd just have to ask him again how to adjust that.

It could go either way for me. Just was following your suggestions from earlier.

Note that the sentry could be modified to be without that back ball thingy. The 3 parts are not even connected to each other.

I quite like the whole model... just think it fits the Law Enforcer better - and that was a determination made by just looking at the set here and seeing them in comparison to one another. Sometimes when other ships are in the mix the art assignment may become more appropriate for a different ship - just a matter of getting them to appear right in their roles in comparison to the other ships in the set if that makes sense.

 

[Sparth]

Protos and Earth Alliance Ships looks too different. EA Ships are cubic and Protos are more bio-look.
There is tons of space ships models already available on CivFanatics downloads or in FF mod or FF modmods.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Can we get an ingame pic of the Probe blown up to a moderate respectable combat ship size?

I was just using NIFSkope to take screenshots. IF you want an in game look you will have to make a mockup unit.

The Observer would be perfect for the new Swarm Ships. I've begun including them...
Check this out! Down at the bottom I added them in. Did the tech prereqs for them on the tech page too.

Another unit type to fill in with art for every era. Arg!

Protos and Earth Alliance Ships looks too different. EA Ships are cubic and Protos are more bio-look.
There is tons of space ships models already available on CivFanatics downloads or in FF mod or FF modmods.

I know. Its been mind numbing. There are just not enough Protoss units for fill in all the ship types though. None of the amiable ships in the download section seem to resemble Protoss ships.

I wonder if we could use the same model of Protoss Ship with a different skin or even a different size and see if we could fill in more slots.

For example if we stretch the Carrier on the Y axis we could make it all long to look more like an Aircraft Carrier.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Protos and Earth Alliance Ships looks too different. EA Ships are cubic and Protos are more bio-look.
There is tons of space ships models already available on CivFanatics downloads or in FF mod or FF modmods.

Are you suggesting that we do away with the protos ships entirely or that there are more we could work with that might blend better with them? (Hoping the latter...)

I'll keep looking at more models to see if I can find something that might blend with them better online too. I believe I can make it work to get just about any model game if needbe.

I was just using NIFSkope to take screenshots. IF you want an in game look you will have to make a mockup unit.

A screenshot on NIFSkope would be equally helpful... I was mostly unable to see the thing large enough to judge it.

Another unit type to fill in with art for every era. Arg!

I've noticed quite a few arts that could help fill the other eras. Don't stress. At least you already have this one! lol

I know. Its been mind numbing. There are just not enough Protoss units for fill in all the ship types though. None of the amiable ships in the download section seem to resemble Protoss ships.

I wonder if we could use the same model of Protoss Ship with a different skin or even a different size and see if we could fill in more slots.

For example if we stretch the Carrier on the Y axis we could make it all long to look more like an Aircraft Carrier.

Or actually use some of the modelling tools and actually tweak it more deeply so it becomes something new but still related. I'm feeling tugged to get back into 3d modelling here... lol. Might hafta do that.

 

[Sparth]

Are you suggesting that we do away with the protos ships entirely or that there are more we could work with that might blend better with them? (Hoping the latter...)

I'll keep looking at more models to see if I can find something that might blend with them better online too. I believe I can make it work to get just about any model game if needbe.

I just sayin that mixing these two styles is bad. Or just we use these models for two different branch of ships (like diesel ships are different then fusion).

 

[Thunderbrd]

I just sayin that mixing these two styles is bad. Or just we use these models for two different branch of ships (like diesel ships are different then fusion).

I completely agree actually. I love these Starcraft ships but the need to cover all of them... or we need to find something that works with them smoother at least.

I'm currently looking at models on this site here. GREAT site! Another example... I think this carrier might fit well here:https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=6a26963f4a68565108c8b76e4f933bf

 

[Sparth]

There is 2 problems with importing 3d models to civ4:
- Too many polygons for our game
- Lack of animations

 

[Thunderbrd]

There is 2 problems with importing 3d models to civ4:
- Too many polygons for our game
- Lack of animations

1) I've come to understand from previous conversations, keeping to around 1k or less polycount should work fine.

2) Ships don't need to flex and bend so attaching the Final Frontier animation files may work... the guy that did these ships mentioned something about that so I might have to press to inquire how he goes about that.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@TB

Here are some screeshots from NIFSkope.

 

[Thunderbrd]

What angle are we seeing the probe from there?

Actually... the observer, blown up like that, could be an appropriate Corvette. The probe could then work, small as it is now, as the Swarm Ship.

Also... try stretching the X (I assume) axis on the carrier and if possible, remove the two claws on the top side to help differentiate and it'd look great imo.

 

[Hydromancerx]

What angle are we seeing the probe from there?

They are all a 3/4 view.

Also... try stretching the X (I assume) axis on the carrier and if possible, remove the two claws on the top side to help differentiate and it'd look great imo.

Since its all one mesh in NIFSkope I can stretch axes but cannot change the mesh. NIFSkope is much more simple than other 3D editing tools.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Still looking for my copy of Rhino around here somewhere... maybe I can use it to manipulate things a bit.

Ok, so I've updated the Property Manipulators data sheet. I know... doing the most important things first here right? lol... Just going in the order they were left in after posting them over to the google docs.

See what you think.