Ok, well I think some constructive criticism is all for the better then
It will be interesting to see how that war goes.
NCG 3: The Rebirth
- Thread starter Hackapell
- Start date
Ok, well I think some constructive criticism is all for the better then
It will be interesting to see how that war goes.
Hackapell
Rhetorician
to clarify, since I had not been producing units and instead, wonders, my power graph was taking a dive. I didn't have enough hammers to invest in a granary, and since I have a low health and happy cap, when I whip I don't want it to grow back like a weed, which is what I typically find most of my cities with granaries doing. Usually, when I'm in full peace mode, I will build granaries, but since I'm still at the bottom of the totem pole in terms of power, I've been going unit crazy so I can later start building. In essence,
they don't( nobody has feudalism) and I can pick up drama now if you want me to. I probably will go there anyway, seeing as WW will demand it. MC before Drama for one reason: forges.
Yes, I am still going for a cultural victory, but it may be tight in terms of time. So your recommendation is to get drama?
First take a look at my sig.
yes, that was a late construction, but as mice said, I have very little knowledge of all the mechanics. however, that was easily my earliest machinery, and I can pick up CS in 27 turns, if what your saying is get those macemen. just FYI, none of the other civs have machinery, so
I'm the first to that. also the Glib, at least in my games, comes at the right time in 400 ad, because that when I have lots of conquered land that I can burn on specialists to feed my economy. I haven't switched into full SE mode, so that probably why I have to keep the slider high.
I don't know about that...I've seen the AI routinely pick up the oracle in 650BC
And yes, I could have had a massive land grab via expansion and axe-rush. I just went wonder-crazy a little too early, and it's beginning to show. you are correct; at this point in most of my off- line games I will controll at least half, and sometimes 2/3, of my continent.
to answer your question, I built stonehenge too early, when I should have been building settlers, and then I had to expand qiuckly to catch-up.It's 1000 AD you still haven't built a granary in Delhi? Why?
I don't mean to sound harsh, but I just gave all those comments, because as I see it, there hasn't been any focus in this game, and with focus things go better.
Again, didn't mean to rain on your parade. Good luck taking out Hatshepsut
(With no music and drama at 1000 AD I'd give up on cultural and just clobber everyone, but thats just me
no problem. critisms are welcome; just don't try to use your superior civ knowledge to baffle a poor noble guy
Grow back like a weed? You don't like cities growing and prefer that they grow slowly? Do you realize that by not using a granary you are essentially wasting enormous amounts of food?
If you think the cities are growing too fast, then work hammer tiles, or whip!
You had metal, so why did you wait? You could have attacked pre-construction. As far as I know none of you neighbors were protective (if I remember correctly protective is a Warlords trait). You could have taken out a whole bunch of AIs at very low cost given that they took forever to get to Feudalism. (Seriously, they dont have Feudalism at 1000 AD?? Wow.)
Well, if you want my honest opinion. Its getting a bit late for cultural. Just slaughter all your opponents as fast as you can instead. Its noble so it will be easy, and you'll get some practice fighting wars.
Would those forges help a cultural victory better than earlier theatres somehow?
For a sig like that you're not teching very fast. On anything higher than the current difficulty level you won't be first to very muchFirst take a look at my sig.
if what your saying is get those macemen. just FYI, none of the other civs have machinery, so I'm the first to that.
What does the GL have to do with conquered land? You built it in Bombay and thats where it will generate extra Great Scientists, irrespective of whether you are "in full SE" mode or not.
Yeah, that sounds about right for noble. So while youre expanding you pick up the oracle before that, it isnt hard to do.I don't know about that...I've seen the AI routinely pick up the oracle in 650BC
Hackapell
Rhetorician
for you, frob2900, and for anyone else that's interested, I am attaching a save of what I normally will have going circa 500AD. I know it's Rome, but it illustrates what I normally aim for in an off-line game.
Hackapell
Rhetorician
You didn't understand what I was saying. Granaries, when I build them in cites, often accelerate growth at a breakneck speed, yes. but then I hit my happy cap. I run out of useful specialists slots. all of my tiles may be oriented to get food. and then what? you have a notion of revolting and starving cities. I'm fine with growth; it's controlled growth the I'm looking for.
Yes, you're right. I could have attacked. But again, and I take full responsiblity for this, I went wonder-crazy too early, and killed my growth. hatty was also too far away and I would have had to cross a jungle. That's just how things worked out.
Yes, it may be too late, which is why I'm reevaluating what we can do. We're not even half-way through in terms of turns, so a space race may be possible, or perhaps a rampaging late game-conquest. The forges are just cheap, and a boost to production is rarely a bad thing, no?
I will give you that. I am definently not teching as fast as I would like, and again that's because I have not accuratly moved into full SE mode.For a sig like that you're not teching very fast. On anything higher than the current difficulty level you won't be first to very much
More land allows us to burn more scientists in the newly conquered city, which picks up our reasearch. more cities are using scientist= more cities that can churn out more GS's faster. More GS's=more tech. Not that hard to understand, but maybe I wasn't clear enough.
I guess not, but it's a bit of a devialtion from the techs I want to pick up. that's all.
again, take a look at the(irrelevant) save I posted. that is what I usually shoot for.
Look, manage your cities however you want. If you play the game enough you will also come to conclusion that leaving granaries unbuilt for that long is a very, very bad idea, irrespective of what else was going on in your game. Trust me.
On this skill level, wonder craziness ought not to kill growth to the extent it has here. Heck, even on Monarch its possible to grab pyramids or hanging gardens (maybe even both) and GL and still have a much larger empire than you have in this game.
I often like to do it when I'm Philosophical and can get stone in one of my first two cities. (with philosophical you can often get pyramids+GL as a package deal. You build the pyramids and then you get a GE to build the GL).
Late game conquest? You can kill them all as soon as you have maces and catapults. (or is there another continent? In that case wait for galleons and grenadiers). You could already have wiped out this continent if you had wanted to.
Why isnt your economy running yet? Its 1000 AD. You should have more cities, and some of them should be cottage spammed. If you are avoiding cottages as part of an SE variant then you should be running many, many more scientists for lightbulbing, and you should have opened up the paper/education route ages ago.
This has nothing to do with the great library. Yes, more cities is better. Having too few cities is something you can get away with on the lowest levels, but later it becomes painfully true that "Land is power", perhaps even more so than Tech.
Then again, I must point out that with only three cities you are paying very little maintenance. This is in fact a strategy that can be used to your advantage. You could have much more tech than you have. Biology/Electricty is doable 800 AD on Prince (so certainly on Noble). Try it sometime. The trick is one cottage spammed city running bureaucracy and one city thats running pacifism and pumping out great scientists (has to be food heavy). It helps to be Elizabeth
(there's a very interesting thread in this forum called Supersize Me, which is where I got the idea to try this out)Still, once you have those techs yor empire is very small, so you still need to do fighting, but youll have grenadiers and they wont.
Again, I apologize if what I said earlier sounded harsh. I was just reacting to the lack of focus. It's really focus that will advance your skill level. Knowing what tasks will get you forward and how to accomplish them efficiently and as quickly as possible. I think it's great that you're playing this game in public, I would never have thought of doing it back when I first started playing Civ.
My advice for the game: Give us a bit of a show, go for conquest/domination, and make it bloody!
Hackapell
Rhetorician
Well, I finished playing the next round, and somebody's been voted off the island...
r_rolo1
King of myself
A bet... Not JC and not Peter 
Greeneyedzombie
King
Don't worry to much about the happinis cap. Unhappy people can be whipped away. Just let your cities grow till you have enough unhappy people to whip a building.
Greeneyedzombie
King
A bet... Not JC and not Peter
Maybe he went crazy
and went for julius. No fear of backstabbing from hatty.Hackapell
Rhetorician
I know, but my point is that I whip, the city grows back to unhappiness level, I whip again, it grows back and reaches it's happy cap, and so on and so forth.
Hackapell
Rhetorician
Round 5: 980 AD to 1232 AD-Part 1
another two-parter guys, bear with me here...
The round started with me settling oily horse:
Yes, that is a settler galley; looks like I beat peter to that spot by two turns.
Then, a certain someone defied the law of physics:
HOW DID HE DO THAT?!?!?! I TORE UP THE OB!!!!!
I let my NY vocab flow freely for a while, especially after seeing this in 995:
Even though she was the first to music and had mrble, It turned out that Hatty did not build Notre Dame; meaning there must be another industrious civ out there somewhere.
With the pressure off hatty, I decided now was the right time to strike:
DIE HATTY, DIE!!!!
I nevr spoke to her again. her offer for peace was drama, which wasn't good enough, as I also wanted theology for the Sistine Chapel.
I learned something useful, at least, in this war... elephants are remarkably good at city raiding:
go, my little pachyderms, go!
I did some tech trading with peter:
mostly backfill, but the techs I gave up weren't too great, and were miles behind where I was.
Since I was running a net deficit to rush towards CS, I needed to keep conquering. Pi-ramesses was the first city I kept:
then, I did another trade with JC, one that I will probably get yelled at for:
It was a given, seeing as that was the only tech I had over him, that he would research that next, so I decided to milk it for a tech and more money.
Then, I began to dogpile:
I'm changing my mind about peter. He's actually not a bad guy. Just make sure he's somewhat backwards when you meet him and that you share a religion.
More important, though, was the capture of Thebes, the jewel of the Egyptians, and it's essential wonder.
Then JC came with what I initally saw was an ultimatum, but turned out to be the best move I have made in this game so far:
Initially, I was worried. If there was ever a time to attack me, it would be now. but I wanted(at least I thought at the time) to keep my relation with Peter and my funds coming through the Kong Miao. but declining would leae me with a masive army of praets on my borders, with one very pissed dictators looking to use them. I acceded to their demands, and instantly, I knew where all of Hatty's cities were, shaving off at least a few turns from the war. Thanks, JC!
However, doing that had an unexpected benefit. When I went to ask for JC's assistance, he would take nothing of mine, but when I asked if he could join our crusade aganist the Egyptian, this is the responce I got:
I made another tech trade with peter:
and finally, by running huge deficits, I picked up CS:
continued in the next post...
another two-parter guys, bear with me here...
The round started with me settling oily horse:
Yes, that is a settler galley; looks like I beat peter to that spot by two turns.
Then, a certain someone defied the law of physics:
HOW DID HE DO THAT?!?!?! I TORE UP THE OB!!!!!
I let my NY vocab flow freely for a while, especially after seeing this in 995:
Even though she was the first to music and had mrble, It turned out that Hatty did not build Notre Dame; meaning there must be another industrious civ out there somewhere.
With the pressure off hatty, I decided now was the right time to strike:
DIE HATTY, DIE!!!!
I nevr spoke to her again. her offer for peace was drama, which wasn't good enough, as I also wanted theology for the Sistine Chapel.
I learned something useful, at least, in this war... elephants are remarkably good at city raiding:
go, my little pachyderms, go!
I did some tech trading with peter:
mostly backfill, but the techs I gave up weren't too great, and were miles behind where I was.
Since I was running a net deficit to rush towards CS, I needed to keep conquering. Pi-ramesses was the first city I kept:
then, I did another trade with JC, one that I will probably get yelled at for:
It was a given, seeing as that was the only tech I had over him, that he would research that next, so I decided to milk it for a tech and more money.
Then, I began to dogpile:
I'm changing my mind about peter. He's actually not a bad guy. Just make sure he's somewhat backwards when you meet him and that you share a religion.
More important, though, was the capture of Thebes, the jewel of the Egyptians, and it's essential wonder.
Then JC came with what I initally saw was an ultimatum, but turned out to be the best move I have made in this game so far:
Initially, I was worried. If there was ever a time to attack me, it would be now. but I wanted(at least I thought at the time) to keep my relation with Peter and my funds coming through the Kong Miao. but declining would leae me with a masive army of praets on my borders, with one very pissed dictators looking to use them. I acceded to their demands, and instantly, I knew where all of Hatty's cities were, shaving off at least a few turns from the war. Thanks, JC!
However, doing that had an unexpected benefit. When I went to ask for JC's assistance, he would take nothing of mine, but when I asked if he could join our crusade aganist the Egyptian, this is the responce I got:
I made another tech trade with peter:
and finally, by running huge deficits, I picked up CS:
continued in the next post...
Hackapell
Rhetorician
[continued from last post]
With CS under my belt, I went to JC to see what I could trade him for.
I was in for a rude awakening:
well, that's the first time I've ever seen the dreaded WFYABTA, so I guess I'm excused...does anyone understand how that works?
and finally, in 1220, Egypt was no more:
and with the fall of egypt came massive stores of wealth.
as Peter watched as JC and I tured on him with religious fervor, he decided that if you can't beat 'em:
and that's all she wrote!
The State of the Continent comes next!
With CS under my belt, I went to JC to see what I could trade him for.
I was in for a rude awakening:
well, that's the first time I've ever seen the dreaded WFYABTA, so I guess I'm excused...does anyone understand how that works?
and finally, in 1220, Egypt was no more:
and with the fall of egypt came massive stores of wealth.
as Peter watched as JC and I tured on him with religious fervor, he decided that if you can't beat 'em:
and that's all she wrote!
The State of the Continent comes next!
r_rolo1
King of myself
Oh, the joy of WFYABTA . You can override that if you put JC friendly with you, you know (don't know if it would pay on , but that is another issue... )? More comments after the state of the world....
. You can override that if you put JC friendly with you, you know (don't know if it would pay on , but that is another issue... )? More comments after the state of the world....Hackapell
Rhetorician
The State of the Continent: Round 5-Round 6
First, a look at our continent:
A spire of Indian land now separates JC from Peter. I will have to deal with two fronts, but ah well.
Our domestic advisor:
Mostly courthouses in the conquered cities, and infrasturcture and units in the core cities. My economy is slowly recovering, but it will be a while before I can keep up efficiently. I will probably egin to cattage my capital to get the most out of Bureaucracy.
a look at the civics:
pretty much the standard stuff, minus bureaucracy, for an SE which I will try to perfect in the next round, or maybe more of an HE.
a look at techs, vis-a-vis JC:
and compared to Peter:
JC is prevented from trading because of WFYABTA, and peter is just too slow a techer to be of use. therefore, most of my tech will have to be self-researched. this is also a more critical point for me, as this is where I generally get lost in terms of what to tech post-liberalism. Since the other continent still hasn't built the colossus, they must be somewhere in the stone age. therefore, the only person racing me for liberalism is JC, and we're about neck and neck. I took a slight deviation for currency, just to pick up my economy a bit more. Is that a good idea, or sould I be completely focused on liberalism?
for those of you who will inevitable advise war against JC to slow him down, here's the size of his army:
and the size of mine:
keep in mind that that isn't all ofhis units, and he's easiy overshooting me in terms of unit quanity.
some more charts will finish this update off:
score:
one can probably guess when I went to war with Hatty.
power for the last 50 turns:
another case where I come from behind to threaten the leader. The wonders of the human mind!
Demographics:
Intriguing. I'm last in GPD, but first in production. my economy should hopefully recover fast.
and the victory conditions:
I think we can throw culture out the window as a possibility. Domination will be a very late victory, as will space race. I not expecting Augustus Ceaser ranking on this game, but hopefully we can all be better than Dan Qualye.
I await your comments. Here's the save.
First, a look at our continent:
A spire of Indian land now separates JC from Peter. I will have to deal with two fronts, but ah well.
Our domestic advisor:
Mostly courthouses in the conquered cities, and infrasturcture and units in the core cities. My economy is slowly recovering, but it will be a while before I can keep up efficiently. I will probably egin to cattage my capital to get the most out of Bureaucracy.
a look at the civics:
pretty much the standard stuff, minus bureaucracy, for an SE which I will try to perfect in the next round, or maybe more of an HE.
a look at techs, vis-a-vis JC:
and compared to Peter:
JC is prevented from trading because of WFYABTA, and peter is just too slow a techer to be of use. therefore, most of my tech will have to be self-researched. this is also a more critical point for me, as this is where I generally get lost in terms of what to tech post-liberalism. Since the other continent still hasn't built the colossus, they must be somewhere in the stone age.
therefore, the only person racing me for liberalism is JC, and we're about neck and neck. I took a slight deviation for currency, just to pick up my economy a bit more. Is that a good idea, or sould I be completely focused on liberalism?for those of you who will inevitable advise war against JC to slow him down, here's the size of his army:
and the size of mine:
keep in mind that that isn't all ofhis units, and he's easiy overshooting me in terms of unit quanity.
some more charts will finish this update off:
score:
one can probably guess when I went to war with Hatty.
power for the last 50 turns:
another case where I come from behind to threaten the leader. The wonders of the human mind!
Demographics:
Intriguing. I'm last in GPD, but first in production. my economy should hopefully recover fast.
and the victory conditions:
I think we can throw culture out the window as a possibility. Domination will be a very late victory, as will space race. I not expecting Augustus Ceaser ranking on this game, but hopefully we can all be better than Dan Qualye.
I await your comments. Here's the save.
Melon Head
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2006
- Messages
- 134
Looking just at your happy caps, you really need to grow. As late as 1220, you should be able to boast a couple of cities in the teens. I know you've been warring and whipping and that's been keeping your pop sizes down, but it would be worthwhile to have a serious look at a bunch of farming before you cottage things up. It will require a significant investment in workers, but when has that been a problem?
Hackapell
Rhetorician
Yes, growth will be an imperative in the next round. I just finished a granary in my core cities, and post-war reparations are on the way.
and to the rest of you, I'm on a bit of a tight schedule, seeing as I will leave for camp on Fri., so the faser everyone weighs in, the faster the game moves.
and to the rest of you, I'm on a bit of a tight schedule, seeing as I will leave for camp on Fri., so the faser everyone weighs in, the faster the game moves.
Greeneyedzombie
King
have you already played the next round?
if not. I would whip a worker first in all conquered cities and then build courthouses. then whip another worker. We really need to develop our land.
Are you still trying for a culturel game?
if not. I would whip a worker first in all conquered cities and then build courthouses. then whip another worker. We really need to develop our land.
Are you still trying for a culturel game?
Hackapell
Rhetorician
Oops...
with no one responding to my calls for assistance, I got impatient and played the game out for a lot of turns. I can stop now, but again, I have a limited amount of time on-line and there fore, I want to end this game and move on to an open-start game, similar to the Lonely Hearts games and the Clash of the Warmongerers, so you guys can play while I'm at camp.
Can you give me your opinion? should I finish and move on?
with no one responding to my calls for assistance, I got impatient and played the game out for a lot of turns. I can stop now, but again, I have a limited amount of time on-line and there fore, I want to end this game and move on to an open-start game, similar to the Lonely Hearts games and the Clash of the Warmongerers, so you guys can play while I'm at camp.
Can you give me your opinion? should I finish and move on?
Greeneyedzombie
King
I think its best to finish. Ive just started a new job. And am working a lot at the moment. thats why I'm late. so won't have much time either. 
