Heres the convo, for what its worth. This is the longest post ever BTW. Im tired and hitting the bed but I'll throw out some thoughts tomorrow. We had a mixup on the time and place of the chat (my fault) but the whole thing didnt go anywhere. I apologize for posting all of this, but I would rather post it all and no one read it then have something missed by not posting it.
casey j says:
the way we see it is we are not looking for a fight with you, and would rather work together against the other two
Emp. Napoleon says:
something liek that
Emp. Napoleon says:
(if you wanna invote your goverment, I don't mind)
casey j says:
I put up a message, no one is attending. They put forth their thoughts and wishes, and if we can get an agreement together we'll vote and get it done. I have a pretty good feel for what everyone wants though so voting shouldnt be an issue (just in case you need to move on something right away, since the save is delayed for I assume this meeting)
Emp. Napoleon says:
well, we were in the market for techs
casey j says:
alright you want writing and thats all?
Emp. Napoleon says:
well, pretty much any techs, but writing is one of them
casey j says:
the other one is pottery that you are after? dont have that settler factory running just yet?
Emp. Napoleon says:
well, pottery is another possiblity
casey j says:
the way we figure it is, writing is pretty damn expensive, and putting that out there for only IW, bronze, and warrior code is probably not going to happen. We dont want any 2 fers with other civs and want to keep either everyone backward or everyone outside of a Greco-Iro alliance backward
casey j says:
but we are always willing to listen to ideas
casey j says:
I figure we can be the dominant two powers in the game if we want to be
Emp. Napoleon says:
2 fers?
casey j says:
2 fer: say you get writing and know Persia who knows Math, and you trade writing for math. You would get 2 techs for one tech because as the middleman because we dont know persia
Emp. Napoleon says:
I see
Emp. Napoleon says:
but once we both know Persia, let's say, we can set up some things to benifet the two of us
casey j says:
Yes
Emp. Napoleon says:
how about IW and Wheel for Writing
casey j says:
Probably not. Wheel is naturally important to us, but we can get it quickly via research. Iron is a priority for every civ but us.
Emp. Napoleon says:
well tech cost wise you will make out
Emp. Napoleon says:
and do you already have IW?
casey j says:
certainly we would, but writing opens up a lot of possibilities
casey j says:
for you
Emp. Napoleon says:
and would bring much trust to our nations
casey j says:
Trust between our nations would begin with a pact outlining a tech agreement.
casey j says:
Our information indicates we could make a formidable alliance. Would you be willing to sign a non-aggression pact spanning to turn 100 or so?
Emp. Napoleon says:
well, we are not that interested in a full on ulta-tech alliance, but a non agression pact could be considered
Emp. Napoleon says:
right now, we just wanna trade techs/money for techs/money
Emp. Napoleon says:
how about this: V - Non-Agression Agreement
Neither nation shall attack any unit of the other nation.
Neither nation shall pillage the improvements of the other without prior
approval.
Neither nation shall intentionally block the movement of the other.
Emp. Napoleon says:
that's from an old APO-CFC treaty back in MSDG
casey j says:
So the offer on the table is BW, IW, Warrior Code, and the Wheel for Writing?
Emp. Napoleon says:
o no
casey j says:
We do have a monopoly on writing
Emp. Napoleon says:
I don't know
Emp. Napoleon says:
wheel and IW for writing, e may be able to toss in some gold
casey j says:
how much
Emp. Napoleon says:
a lump sum, let's say 10
Emp. Napoleon says:
but I havent approved this with my goverment yet, so we are jsut talking right now
casey j says:
absolutely this is just talking to get a feel for each other. We have writing at monopoly. That opens up Mapmaking, CoL, Philo, Lit, and ultimately Republic. Its a crucial tech that the others cant research right away. We are intent on keeping it close to our vest.
casey j says:
but an offer we cant refuse? well I have a good feel for what we would take for it. We really dont want to drop a warrior stack by your hoplite defended cities to give you a despotic golden age
casey j says:
we would rather work together
Emp. Napoleon says:
o yes, I think we would too
Emp. Napoleon says:
are you slinging?
casey j says:
well now thats a loaded question. I'm allowed to give information in exchange for information.
Emp. Napoleon says:
ok, as of now, we are not
casey j says:
we realize that, since you just got warrior code recently
casey j says:
now if we could work up a republic plan that woudl benefit both of us, that would be great
casey j says:
your plans do include a republican government rather than a monarchy correct?
Emp. Napoleon says:
I cant say, no one from my goverment is on, but let's assume so for now
casey j says:
ok what would be the quickest way for both of us to get there?
casey j says:
assuming we have a tech agreement
Emp. Napoleon says:
well, I don't think we have alpha yet, but we will start reserching in about 4 turns
Emp. Napoleon says:
help in that would be good, and in exchange we could give IW or something else
casey j says:
you are the Greeks correct?
Emp. Napoleon says:
yes
casey j says:
you start with alphabet
casey j says:
do you mean writing?
Emp. Napoleon says:
err sorry
Emp. Napoleon says:
forget about that, so we would need help on writing
Emp. Napoleon says:
and you philosophy and us Code o' laws
casey j says:
so you're doing the wheel right now?
casey j says:
If we were to give you writing for all the other stuff, how soon could you have Code of laws?
Emp. Napoleon says:
we are finishing up IW
casey j says:
so finish up Iron, okay, and then you would do Code of Laws?
Emp. Napoleon says:
possibly, but liek I said, I would need to check with my goverment
casey j says:
of course, and I with mine.
casey j says:
do you still only have the two cities? I havent checked in the last couple of turns.
Emp. Napoleon says:
nor have I, I just do diplomancy
casey j says:
We just dont want to be waiting forever for you to do CoL (300 beakers). If you only have the two cities, it might take you 25-30 turns.
Emp. Napoleon says:
yes I see
Emp. Napoleon says:
well, I can't say how lng it will take
casey j says:
Its a tough call. You will have the wheel, warrior code, and iron working in 4 turns. I might be able to sell my government on writing for your MA tech, but without a settler factory in your capital and good research speed I dont know if doing the writing deal makes sense.
Emp. Napoleon says:
doesn't make sence?
casey j says:
for us, I mean.
Emp. Napoleon says:
ok
Emp. Napoleon says:
well, I know philio is cheaper
Emp. Napoleon says:
we could do that, and then you do CoL, but I need to check with my goverment how long it would take
casey j says:
how would we know, if we were to do that, that you wouldnt take a free mapmaking and land a galley of hoplites to pillage our poor little improvements?
Emp. Napoleon says:
fre mapmaking?
casey j says:
philo gives you a free technology.
Emp. Napoleon says:
mind if I invite a team member
casey j says:
sure go ahead
Emp. Napoleon says:
ok, he might join us in a few min
casey j says:
**** texas those bastards. sorry for my french.
Emp. Napoleon says:
anyways, we could use that tech for CoL, then ge Republic
Emp. Napoleon says:
lol
casey j says:
what tech, philosophy?
Emp. Napoleon says:
we get that, and use taht on CoL, and you go for someting else
Emp. Napoleon says:
with CoL we get republic
Emp. Napoleon says:
and chare
Emp. Napoleon says:
share
casey j says:
well we may have CoL done, and would want to take republic for free for ourselves. we are trying to decide if we want you as research partners or not. If so, we would want you to have republic as soon as possible for the increased science potential. Hence we are looking at a deal. Plans are highly susceptible to change right now; what is your beaker per turn rate?
Emp. Napoleon says:
I can't say, I don't know; some of my goverment officals may come on tonight, I can ask them then
casey j says:
alright.
Kentharu has been added to the conversation.
casey j says:
hello
Kentharu says:
hello, ill just be observing
casey j says:
sure no problem. Emperor, do you mind if I post our discussion so far for my team to keep them up to speed?
Emp. Napoleon says:
ok so it looks like we wont get writing then for IW & the wheel?
casey j says:
probably not
casey j says:
especially if you dont have IW just yet
Emp. Napoleon says:
well, we will get it in 4 turns, we will be jsut about done by the time the deal is ratified on your side, and oked on mine
casey j says:
I really doubt it, but of course I can take that back to my team. I think they would really want a better deal though, which would encompass either a no trade clause in regards to writing, adding in warrior code to better the deal, or an agreement to give us your free MA tech.
Emp. Napoleon says:
you mean that we wil not trade writing?
casey j says:
Yes, you cant trade writing to the Persians or the Celts
casey j says:
is what that would mean
Emp. Napoleon says:
we can talk about that too
Emp. Napoleon says:
but why do you want to limit it?
casey j says:
so that any neighbors we might have would be as backward as possible
Emp. Napoleon says:
good idea
casey j says:
and more susceptible to being destroyed by our troops
Emp. Napoleon says:
I have wonderful news, I've jsut been informed that we already have IW, so we could ship that out soon
casey j says:
so what is your offer?
Emp. Napoleon says:
one moment
casey j says:
sure. do you mind if I post this discussion and keep my team apprised of the situation?
Emp. Napoleon says:
o yes, you may
Emp. Napoleon says:
I'll be doing the same thing at the end
casey j says:
alrighty
Emp. Napoleon says:
ok
Emp. Napoleon says:
here is the deal, do you have Bronze working?
casey j says:
what is the deal?
Emp. Napoleon says:
first I need to know if you have BW?
Kentharu has left the conversation.
Emp. Napoleon says:
becuase we can offer it too you
casey j says:
we dont have bronze working
Emp. Napoleon says:
BW & IW
casey j says:
Nope not going to happen.
Emp. Napoleon says:
IW would get you Iron on the map you know
casey j says:
Yes it would.
Emp. Napoleon says:
ok, well I'll stop haggling you there
Emp. Napoleon says:
let's see, BW, WC, CB, for WRiting
casey j says:
you have ceremonial burial right now?
Emp. Napoleon says:
yes
casey j says:
and you have the wheel as well or is it due in 4 turns?
casey j says:
naturally we would want the wheel rather than CB
Emp. Napoleon says:
that's due in about 4 turns
Emp. Napoleon says:
could be more or less, about that though
Emp. Napoleon says:
BW and Wheel in 4 turns
Emp. Napoleon says:
then give us writing
casey j says:
Not going to happen.
Emp. Napoleon says:
ok, what do you want for writing
casey j says:
BW, iron working, Wheel, Warrior code, and your free MA tech. My team would do that. Anything less and probably not, though I could try to convince them.
casey j says:
if we signed some sort of agreement on techs
Emp. Napoleon says:
that is a lot, and I must say we probally will go for that, but I will bring that back anyways
Emp. Napoleon says:
how about pottery, you have that right?
casey j says:
yes, for sale
Emp. Napoleon says:
waht are you in the market for i that
casey j says:
well the Celts have pottery, are you not wanting to pick that up from them?
Emp. Napoleon says:
I can't answer questions about other civs, I only work with you guys and do not have athority. But what do you want for Potterry
casey j says:
well you obviously know the Celts right?
casey j says:
We could do pottery for Iron working and the Wheel
Emp. Napoleon says:
now that is way too much
casey j says:
that would probably allow you to trade for mysticism from the Celts and come out ahead of us
Emp. Napoleon says:
do they have it?
Emp. Napoleon says:
mysticism?
casey j says:
I dont know, but it would make sense for them to research it since they would have a monopoly.
Emp. Napoleon says:
ok, so first you want a promise from us not to trade techs with other teams, or just the ones we get from you?
casey j says:
just the ones you get from us.
casey j says:
Do you know Persia or the Celts?
Emp. Napoleon says:
I can't say, I do not have athority, I hope you understand
casey j says:
we know you know one of them
Emp. Napoleon says:
like I said, I do not ahve the athority to speak about that, you will need to talk to goverment officals
casey j says:
ok
Emp. Napoleon says:
so first you want a promise from us taht we will not trade techs from you guys to other teams?
casey j says:
Yes is that going to work on your end?
Emp. Napoleon says:
I can ask, and will we recive the same agreement with you guys
casey j says:
yes, if we do it.
casey j says:
but like I said, writing is expensive.
Emp. Napoleon says:
ok, we will get that first, in the meantime we will discuss your offer with writing if we approve of the no trade tech agreement
Emp. Napoleon says:
and we will consider your offer for pottery (BW&Wheel)
casey j says:
The original offer was iron working and the wheel for pottery. But if the counteroffer is Bronze and wheel for pottery, we will consider that.
Emp. Napoleon says:
well, you need BW before IW
casey j says:
Yes you do. Bronze and CB are the cheapest techs in the game.
Emp. Napoleon says:
actually Potery and CB are that's why I am so hesitant on how much you want for Potteryu
casey j says:
Pottery is an important tech. Since you know the Celts, why do you want pottery so bad?
casey j says:
if you can get it from them
Emp. Napoleon says:
yes, it is important I guss, more than value
Emp. Napoleon says:
but I will get that no tech thing going on in our forums, and the deal on Writing (BW, IW, WHeel, WC, and Free MA tech) and Pottery (BW and Wheel)
casey j says:
alright sounds good
casey j says:
I hope we can come to some sort of deal
Emp. Napoleon says:
yes, sorry for taking this chat so long
Emp. Napoleon says:
I hope I didn't waste your time
casey j says:
no problem
Emp. Napoleon says:
I'm a little rusty from the ISDG
Emp. Napoleon says:
so you will be our pernament ambassador?
casey j says:
No probably not. We have elections due pretty soon. But I will be around to spew my somewhat on topic thoughts.
Emp. Napoleon says:
elections for ambassador, or the entire team?
casey j says:
for ambassador and some other posts, turnplayer, internal affairs guy, that kind of thing