nero03 SID

[Obormot]

Feudalism has WW and high corruption. I don't hink we'll have that much units that support cost would outweigh this didadvantages.

 

[Heroes]

Feudalism has WW and high corruption. I don't hink we'll have that much units that support cost would outweigh this didadvantages.

Feudalism has "problematic" corruption, exactly the same as monarchy, neither better nor worse. What does that mean, comparing to republic's "nuisance" corruption?

Corruption includes distance corruption and rank corruption. Distance corruption is min for democrazy , max for despoticism, the same for all others excpet communism. Rank corruption has to do with Nopt (optimal city number). "Minimal" (democrazy) and "nuisance" (republic and fascism) have 0.1*OCN more Nopt than that for "problematic" (monarchy, feudalism) and "rampant" (despotism). For your standard map, OCN=20, so republic increases Nopt by 2. The full formula is Nopt = OCN * (L/100 + c + Gr + Gp*Nwe + 0.25*Ni), now L=50 for sid, c=0 since you are not commercial (otherwise 0.25), Gr=0 (0.1 if republic), Gp=3/8 (unless communism, that's 3), but Nwe=0 (you don't have FP, what a pity), Ni is number of anti-corruption building (courthouse and police station) in the city. So currently Nopt=10 for a city without courthouse, 12.5 with that. If you built FP, it will increase by 7.5.

If you don't feel republic has much less corruption than monarchy, you are right. And the same is true for feudalism.

The only potential problem for feudalism is WW. But if you keep loss low, it's not a big deal. Once you sign peace (or destroy your foe), all the WW will disapear. If you starts the was again, people will forget about the last war and be patienent for long time again.

 

[Pentium]

I wouldn't do it. We'll have quite a lot of WW in our wars. The AI has tons of units, and everytime one of them attacks one of ours, we get WW. So I'd still go with Monarchy.

Not that I remember using either of them, tho

 

[Whomp]

Stay in monarchy. We simply can't afford the anarchy and we're not religious.
I've never attempted feud and really have no desire to try. It may be a useful government for pop rushing culture but I don't see us going for that type of victory.

We may have to go commie later anyhow to steal our way into the tech picture.

 

[Obormot]

I agree, maybe feudalism makes some sense, but we cannot afford another revolution.

 

[Bigfoot]

I have never played with Feudalism. It seems best suited to a tight city build and an early conquest based on numbers. Not really an option is this game.

So what is our long term plan? We will need to get some iron pretty soon to build knights, which would mean war with the Byz (our current allies). Another war with the Ottomans is also necessary to recapture LM. So unless we think we can sweep the Americans quickly I think we should plan on some limited territorial objectives there, then make peace. I don't want to be at war with more than 2 civs at a time on Sid, or else we will wind up on the wrong side of a dogpile.

 

[Obormot]

We won't need many units in the ottoman war, so i think we can send most units to america. We'll see how it goes. I think we should capture cities and station troops near them. If we decide to make peace we can always raze them before the peace deal if the flip risk will be too high.

 

[Bigfoot]

Its not the Ottoman units that concern me, but the possibility that they will bring France into the war while we are still fighting the Americans. I that case we would find ourselves against 3 civs and still no iron -- very bad.

Abandoning cities to avoid possible flips is OK provided we don't want to switch to Republic later. I know from experience that it really hurts WW while in Republic, but I guess that ship has already sailed. Hmm, maybe Whomp's idea of going Commie makes the most sense, especially if we can grab more real estate. It avoids the WW issue entirely and we can steal the techs we need.

 

[Whomp]

Its not the Ottoman units that concern me, but the possibility that they will bring France into the war while we are still fighting the Americans. I that case we would find ourselves against 3 civs and still no iron -- very bad.

I agree with Bigfoot.
Short-term objectives and short wars right now. We can not afford a dogpile here so one SID at a time please.
My objectives would be...
1. raze and get the wines
2. raze and get the horses but maybe make the darned thing a colony until we can plant a new city away from their pressure.
3. Get the iron (unless the French are routing the Byz and then get it earlier)

 

[Obormot]

Abandoning cities to avoid possible flips is OK provided we don't want to switch to Republic later. I know from experience that it really hurts WW while in Republic, but I guess that ship has already sailed. Hmm, maybe Whomp's idea of going Commie makes the most sense, especially if we can grab more real estate. It avoids the WW issue entirely and we can steal the techs we need.

Abandonning cities doesn't cause WW. And i still think that we may revolt to Republic later.

Its not the Ottoman units that concern me, but the possibility that they will bring France into the war while we are still fighting the Americans. I that case we would find ourselves against 3 civs and still no iron -- very bad.

It is not so bad if they ally France against us: we are separated by the byzantines. And we can ally byz against osman to keep them from declaring on us. We should grow big! I vote for taking as many american cities as we can, they have no iron, so we should kill them before salt. Soon it'll be too late: the AI will build all possible improvements in their cities and will start making troops like crazy.

 

[Own]

Don't really have an opinion, just tell me what do to. Will be home soon and can play.

 

[Whomp]

I agree America first but watch how quickly the French start taking the Byz because we will need the Byz iron before the French get it.

 

[Bigfoot]

Well, I'm not gonna argue with the guy who holds the all time highest score in the HOF! I guess sometimes I tend to err on the side of caution.

 

[Own]

All-time histest score? IIRC there are regent milked games more pointiful than that. The game still is stunning.

 

[Obormot]

@Bigfoot: I wish i was so good as you think about me

I don't really know what to do myself, because i don't know how big is our military and i don't know how many units to expect from the AI because i never played with such settings. But my gut feeling is that we should start a major war with america (if we have a decent army), while leaving some forces to capture Leptis and secure the coast before making peace. I would raze Leptis and rebuild it deeper inland. I'll have a look at the save now.

 

[Own]

I'm still on turn 2 . I'm too afraid to play. But I'll make myself.

 

[Obormot]

I had a look at Nero's save: we have 7 horses, 5 archers and 11 cats. Peace deal with Osman expires in 4 turns, so it is 2 turns left now. I would send our 7 horses without cats to take Leptis. I don't expect mroe then 2 spears there. Those 7 horses should then guard the coast from possible landings (it is easier to defend with fast units). 5 archers, all cats and newly built horses covered by the army should launch an attack at Philadelphia. The AI were at war a lot and must have burned their offensive units, but they might have more defenders then usual. Maybe 4 or 5 defenders instead of usual 2. It would be best to investigate the city, but i think we have enough units to capture any sid city protected by spears (if the army also kills a defender or two) except the capital. Then i would move on towards the capital (maybe capturing another city if there is one in the way). By the time our slow-moving stack reaches Washington the war with ottomans should end and we could move those 7 horses and the newly built ones to the american front. That should be enough to capture Washington. Then if we don't meet fierce resistance we may split our stack to attack multiple cities at once, otherwise i would burn the capital and take cities/techs for peace.

 

[Own]

I'm playing right now, maybe i mentioned this but I lowered lux and hired a taxie in cadiz (tundraland by America).

One thing to fear: Our techhole. Everyone is ahead, I estimate we will have to buy a lot to catch up with at least one, will be tough with out massive army.

My understanding of the current military plan: Take wines imediatly with our measly 6-7 horese, then continue the rest of America with the remaining horses and cats/NMs. Capture, not raze. Here is a delemna: If we sue for peace, we get currency, badly needed to help with future buys, but we continue to have flip risks. If we don't, we don't get currency. Maybe a peace sign for currency then imediate redeclaration and kill them? Don't think it ruins rep, just might be dishonorable. But isn't honorable play the last thing on our mind here?

IMO with our two settlers vineyards should be razed and replaced, same with Washington (which has no wonders).

 

[Own]

On crosspost: I'm not much of a military planning junkie, but I'm good at doing what people tell me. Just want a clearup of why we shouldn't use the 7 horses to take Philly before reinforcements arrive. What reinforcements could get into Leptis magna? We can afford a delayed attack there, but not philly.

Carthage and Utica IMO should build NM's IMO, we need those badly for defense. A good defense is the only way to stop a sid stack of death.

 

[Obormot]

Immidiate redeclaration does hurt rep, but it would be very nice if you can trap some americans in our territory after signing peace and boot them to make them declare on us. This will also give us war happiness, so watch out for such opportunities. I would use horses against Leptis and to protect the coast and archers&cats&NMs in american war, because horses are fast and can catch up with the rest of the stack after ottoman war is over. We are doing min-research for the moment, so we don't need wines badly.