NES2 VI - Last Semblance of Order.

[Grandmaster]

The wise and holy leaders of the Red Stick confederation denounce the so-called "Treaty" of "Vienna" as a devilish White scheme, meant to deceive and destroy the nobler peoples of the world, and urges everybody to not sign it, and keep fighting until every last White Devil has been killed.

 

[Stormbringer]

The Russian Union rejects the current version of the Peace Treaty. It is inacurate, biased, and will lead to nothing more than further tension and war instead of assuring peace.

The following are exact points of the Treaty that Russia finds unacceptable.

ARTICLE I.
The Union of Russia shall withdraw its armed forces immediately from the territories of the Union of Scandanavia, the former Kingdom of Finland, and the former Krakow Union. The Union of Russia is to conduct such a withdrawl in a peaceable manner, and all damages incurred by such a withdrawl shall be charged to the account of the Russian Union as debt and reparations payment. The Union of Russia, along with its former allies in the Republic of Brandenburg, shall accept responsibility for the war. Furthermore, the alliance between the Republic of Brandenburg and the Union of Russia is thus terminated, and both nations shall be allowed no agreements above those of Non-Aggression

There will be no such acceptance due the the fact that the war begun with a French invasion of Russia. Prior to this invasion there were no diplomatic negotiations or any other requests from France that would have led to maintaining peace, and thus there was nothing Russia could have done to avert the French invasion of Russia. As a result Russia is in no way responsible for the current war.

The second complaint is regarding all instances where Russia is denied any agreement with other nations. We will reject all of these clauses since they are restricting not only Russia's military treaties but also Russian trade. We will not accept any treaty in which we are denied trade with half of the world.

ARTICLE III.
The Union of Russia, recognizing that its invasion of the former Krakow Union was an illegal action, one which was a precursor to war throughout the European continent, shall agree to a withdrawl from the former territories of said Union. From these territories shall be created both the Kingdom of Poland and the Kingdom of Hungary. The monarchs of both of these nations shall be appointed by the Kingdom of France from members of previous royal-lineage. These Monarchs, once appointed, shall assume the leadership responsibilities of their nation, and shall also be required to form parlements, in the French model. These new nations shall both sign a defensive pact with the Kingdom of France, to ensure their protection. The Union of Russia aswell as the Republic of Brandenburg, are restricted in their dealings with these kingdoms, and shall be allowed no greater agreements than those of Non-Aggression.

Once again the war was initiated by Krakow's invasion of the Union of Russia, and therefore Russia will not recognize any of its actions in that war as illegal. A war in self-defense is always legal and we will not admit otherwise because the current war Russia is fighting is a war of self-defense.

ARTICLE IV.
The Union of Russia, having recognized that its invasion of the former Krakow Union was an illegal action, shall thus recognize the invasion of Romania, and its subsequent Union with Russia, as illegal, and shall withdraw in a peaceable manner from the territories of the former Kingdom of Romania. The Romanian monarchy shall be re-established, a monarch being appointed from the closest blood relative of the previous monarch. The Kingdom of Romania shall sign Defensive pact with the Kingdom of France, and shall also allow the Royal Navy of France free-access to its ports in the Black Sea. The Russian Union, aswell as the Republic of Brandenburg, shall be allowed to make no agreement with this Kingdom other than an agreement of Non-Aggression.

Russia continues to stand by its previous assertion that the war with Krakow was fought in self-defense following a Krakowian invasion of Russia, and therefore was not illegal. The occupation of Romania, which took place following its liberation from the Ottoman rule, was legal and was recognized as legal by all powers in the world. Finally, the personal union between Romania and Russia is no more illegal than a personal union between any other two countries, and there is no reason to recognize it as illegal. Therefore, while Romania will become independant it will remain in a personal union with Russia.

ARTICLE VI.
Finally, the Union of Russia shall declare to a policy of non-involvement in Eastern European affairs, unless its security is directly threatened. Following this declaration, the Union of Russia shall sign 10-year pacts of Non-Aggression with the Kingdoms of Poland, Hungary, and Romania, aswell as the Union of Scandanavia. The Union of Russia shall pay an economic reparation to the Union of Scandanavia of 3,000,000 Riksmarks (3 EP)

The only reason the Union of Russia sees for a payment of reparations is distruction of any property belonging to another country. While under Russian occupation no cities or settlements of Scandinavia were damaged. It is quite the opposite, however, with Russian territories that have been occupied by France and Japan, and therefore the only reparations that will be paid in the war are reperations by France and Japan for destruction of Russian cities. Russia will not pay reparations for no reason.

ARTICLE II.
The Union of Russia, having illegaly taken the regions of southern Mongolia and Sinkiang from the Qing, now Hanhua, Emperors, shall return said land to the extent shown on the maps attached with this treaty. The Union of Russia shall relinquish all previous claims upon these lands, and shall relinquish its charge of protecting the Mongolian tribes, tribes which are subject to the authority of the Hanhua Emperor.

The Union of Russia stands by the legality of the occupation of the regions of Mongolia and Sinkiang. As is well known the populations of these areas have requested Russian intervention and protection during the period of the civil war in China. We do not object to the return of these lands to the sovereignty of China as the occupation and protection provided was understood to be temporary.

ARTICLE III.
The Union of Russia, having illegaly attempted to invade the Empire of Japan, shall cease all hostilities with said Empire, and shall now withdraw from the Island of Sakhalin, recognizing it as a Japanese Imperial Territory. The Union of Russia shall also recognize Japanese gains in the region of Manchuria and Eastern Russia, and shall cede these regions to Japan, along with the Kamchatka Peninsula - which shall be ceded to ensure the security of the Japanese home islands and other pacific possesions from future Russian aggression. The Union of Russia shall also give up her possesions in North America, and transfer their ownership to the Estados Unidos de America.

Russia once again insists on the legality of the current war from Russia's position, given that it was begun by a French invasion of Russia, and consequent Japanese attacks upon the Union of Russia. Russia will recognize Japanese gains in Manchuria and will scede to Japan all lands previously controlled by China that Russia has gained from China during the course of the Chinese Civil War. Russia will not, under any circumstances, give up the regions that have been settled by Russia given the fact that the settlers in these regions are Russian. This includes the Russian-settled area of Eastern Russia and the Kamchatka Peninsula. We fail to see the need to relinquish these areas to "protect" Japan given that Russia is denied in this treaty a warm-water port on the Pacific, making it impossible to maintain a fleet on the Pacific Ocean.

Finally, to re-itirate, Russia stands by the legality of all of its actions during the war, and recognizes only the fact that by an illegal invasion and through overwhelming might France and her allies have won a war against the Union of Russia.

 

[Symphony D.]

Russia once again insists on the legality of the current war from Russia's position, given that it was begun by a French invasion of Russia, and consequent Japanese attacks upon the Union of Russia.

After Russia attacked Japanese forces without provocation in the Sino-Japanese War. As far as we are concerned, that was the first shot in this conflict, and it is what drove Japan to seek a greater alliance with France. Russia has no one to blame for Japan's entry into the war but itself and its overzealous and imperialist policies in Asia.

Furthermore the notion that Kamchatka, or for that matter, any part of Siberia, has been "settled" by the Russian people is perhaps as accurate as saying the French have "settled" Terra Australias: it isn't. Aside from a single settlement near the south of the peninsula, there are no ethnic Russians whatsoever in the region.

Frankly, Russia is losing nothing in the region as a result of this war if Kamchatka is not included. All the territory it is "seceding" is in fact of Qing Chinese origin, taken without a shot during the Sino-Japanese War. In fact, it has only gained, seeing as how it retains large portions of Qing China which Xin Han China has not seen fit to reclaim, given an appreciation for the Russian government's belligerence in peace negotiations prior to presenting terms. The notion that the Mongolian peoples of Western China have any right to dictate whom should rule them when they are little better than barbarians is ludicrous. If the Lithuanians were to demand independence, would Russia relent to let Poland take their land if the Lithuanians asked them to? How about the Cossacks? Uzbeks? Khazaks? This pathetic pretense that Russia is simply "protecting" the Mongols and their ilk is incredibly flimsy, and we will not tolerate it. We therefore present an ultimatum:

Such gain on the part of a clear aggressor in the Asian theater is unacceptable. Russia will either relenquish Kamchatka or it will withdraw from all former Qing Chinese possessions. The choice is Russia's. In either instance, it shall not profit a dime or a square inch from its aggressions in Asia in any peace treaty to which Japan is party.

 

[Insane_Panda]

If Russia is unwilling to agree to the basic principles of the peace as we have proposed, than France, along with her allies, shall be forced to resume hostilities against the Russian Union and the Russian Union alone, for the Greater German Republic has already issued an unconditional surrender, placing it firmly in the hands of the Allied Coalition in regards to the terms of any peace.

The second complaint is regarding all instances where Russia is denied any agreement with other nations. We will reject all of these clauses since they are restricting not only Russia's military treaties but also Russian trade. We will not accept any treaty in which we are denied trade with half of the world.

France would be willing to adjust this in order to accomodate treaties economic in principle, yet we will not allow the Russian Union the right to sign military agreements with these states, for we shall not tolerate Russian interference in the matters of Eastern European security.

Russia continues to stand by its previous assertion that the war with Krakow was fought in self-defense following a Krakowian invasion of Russia, and therefore was not illegal. The occupation of Romania, which took place following its liberation from the Ottoman rule, was legal and was recognized as legal by all powers in the world. Finally, the personal union between Romania and Russia is no more illegal than a personal union between any other two countries, and there is no reason to recognize it as illegal. Therefore, while Romania will become independant it will remain in a personal union with Russia.

A war of self-defense may have been perfectly legal in the eyes of the world, yet the proceeding peace, and the Russian gains from said peace, were illegal, forcing Russian occupation upon millions of Hungarians, Poles, and other Eastern-European ethnic groups. Russia had no right to annex these territories, and therefore, its war of conquest against these peoples is illegal. The war, as Russia had annexed regions beyond its borders, cannot be declared a war of self defense. It was a war of conquest the moment Russia decided it had the right to annex lands from the former Krakow Union.

Furthermore, France will not allow Romania to remain in personal Union, seeing as said Union only came about through the toppling of the previous government of Romania by the forces of the Russian Union. We shall not recognize a government set in place as a puppet-regime by the Union of Russia.

The only reason the Union of Russia sees for a payment of reparations is distruction of any property belonging to another country. While under Russian occupation no cities or settlements of Scandinavia were damaged. It is quite the opposite, however, with Russian territories that have been occupied by France and Japan, and therefore the only reparations that will be paid in the war are reperations by France and Japan for destruction of Russian cities. Russia will not pay reparations for no reason.

The Union of Scandanavia has requested for the payments of reparations in any peace with the Russian Union. If the Union of Scandanavia is willing to relinquish its claims on the amount of money enshrined in the Treaty, than Russia shall not be made to pay.

The Union of Russia stands by the legality of the occupation of the regions of Mongolia and Sinkiang. As is well known the populations of these areas have requested Russian intervention and protection during the period of the civil war in China. We do not object to the return of these lands to the sovereignty of China as the occupation and protection provided was understood to be temporary.

The populations may have requested such, but that does not make the Russian occupation within the confines of international law. The populace did request Russian "protection", yet the population is subject to the laws of their state, and the orders of their monarch, as enshrined by the former Qing governmental system. Russia's occupation of said regions is therefore a violation of the sovereignty of both the Qing and Xin Empires. Had the populations of Lithuania and Poland requested foriegn protection, would the Russian Union have submitted to their demands? We think not.

Finally, upon the matter of Kamchatka - we present Russia an option. Either it withdraws from all of the area of the former Qing Empire, or it gives up the region of the Kamchatka peninsula as illustrated on the map. The Kingdom of France will not allow Russia to gain from a war in which it did not contribute, and we will not allow Russia to illegaly violate the sovereignty of the Chinese state, and separate subjects of the Chinese emperor from his rule.

 

[Stormbringer]

Russia did not provoke any conflict in the Sino-Japanese War. Russia purchased from China the land along the Pacific Ocean and took posession of it. When Japanese soldiers decided to try to take this land, now Russia, Russian soldiers responded by defending sovereign Russian land. If this was the first shot in this war, then it was a Japanese attempt to invade Russian territory.

How heavily Kamchatka is settled by Russians is not the matter in question. Should France relinquish inner Australia or Japan relinquish Sakhalin simply because they are not settled by these nations? There are Russian settlers in Kamchatka and other Russian areas of Siberia and they will remain part of Russia.

Russia is losing all of the territory it has purchased from China during the Sino-Japanese war. It was taken without a shot exactly because it was purchased and the government of China was compensated for it. Russia is now giving up this land to Japan, and this is hardly "losing nothing."

We do not insist that the people of Mongolia and Sinkind have a right to decide who rules them. We do, however, insist, that in the course of a Civil War these people do have a right to ask for protection from a neighboring power, which took place. We have already said many times that we do not, and did not, consider this protection permanent, and will return these lands to China as soon as the situation in China and Russia are stable again.

Russia will not relinquish Kamchatka, and it is already withdrawing from much of the territory that it has purchased from China. If this is not enough for Japan then there is nothing further that Russia can offer.

 

[Stormbringer]

On the legality of Russian occupation of Poland and Hungary:

Russia will agree to the illegality of the Russian occupation of Poland and Hungary if a clause is added to the treaty in which France accepts the illegality of the occupation of Spain and Japan accepts the illegality of the occupation of Manchuria.

 

[Insane_Panda]

Edit.......

 

[Symphony D.]

We will agree to drop the issue of Kamchatka on the condition that Russia immediately opens dialogue with the Xin Han Chinese government on a time table for the restoration of former Qing territories.

 

[Stormbringer]

If France prefers a war to negotiating a peace then we will fight a war. It would apear, however, that France simply cannot find an argument for any of the points Russia has objected to, and now wishes to continue the war. This will change little, and continuation of the war will not make past legal Russian actions illegal and will not turn past illegal French actions into legal ones.

OOC: I would very much apreciate if one of you got on msn.

 

[Stormbringer]

We will agree to drop the issue of Kamchatka on the condition that Russia immediately opens dialogue with the Xin Han Chinese government on a time table for the restoration of former Qing territories.

With the exception of the territories that were purchased by Russia from the Qing Empire during the Civil War. If I understand you correctly then we can begin the talks with China and I am sure we will be able to complete the hand over within the year.

 

[Insane_Panda]

France is willing to oversee, and thus remove, all questions of the legality of actions involving this war from the treaty if Russia agrees to the terms as proposed which involve the freedom of the Eastern European states, and the agreement to not form any agreements with these states which are military in nature (i.e any form of alliance).

However, we stand by all other articles of the peace.

 

[Symphony D.]

As far as Japan is aware, the only areas purchased from Qing China are the ones on which Japanese soldiers are standing, and which have been agreed to be handed over to Japan as per the treaty.

If there are other areas that were purchased of which we are unaware, and which neither we, nor the Chinese, currently occupy, then that is a matter for China and Russia to discuss. We are unsure as to what these might be, however, as a large portion of the North Amur region was under Japanese control, and Sianking and Mongolia only came into Russian possession at their own behest. If Russia were to post a map of these exchanges, this matter would be easier to resolve.

Regardless, yes, the discussion of return of any lands not purchased by Russia in dialogue with China is our condition. If Russia agrees to this, which it seems they do, we will drop the Kamchatka issue.

OOC: Don't have MSN, sorry.

 

[Insane_Panda]

OOC: My MSN is still broken, my apologies.

 

[Stormbringer]

Here is a rough scetch of the Russian proposal for the territorial clause in the Far East. Exact borders can be changed (for austhetic reasons mostly)

 

[Symphony D.]

That territory in no way benefits Russia. It is incapable of sustaining a winter port for Russian ships during the winter; ships Russia does not need anyway as its entire Pacific seaboard is now ice-locked for the bulk of the year and, with the removal of colonial possessions in Alaska, it has no plausible destination for such vessels anyway.

Furthermore, it stretches out Japanese defensive lines. Lines which, as this war has proven, should be short and easily defensible so as to prevent aggression.

Lastly, although the Russian government may forget, the bulk of that territory was under Japanese control, and was within the area officially annexed by Japan following the conclusion of the Sino-Japanese War. As far as international law is concerned, we still have a legal right to it. We are exchanging one part for the other to prevent a little lip of Russian territory from extending into ours and potentially being easily cut off later. We will allow Russian trading vessels to dock in that port freely, but there is no justifiable reason at all for Russia to seek that territory, nor legal reasoning, when by their own proposal they take land that is legally Japanese.

We believe it is in both our best interests to keep our mutual border as short as possible, and to that effect, we will keep what land our soldiers stand on. In other regards than that, we have no objections with that map.

 

[Stormbringer]

That territory was purchased by Russia, and the fact that Japan occupied the bulk of the territory that Russia purchased from China during the Sino-Japanese war does not mean that Russia is not entitled to that territory.

As per supply lines and benefits of the territory, Russia would like to keep what belongs to it. We have a legal claim to this land and therefore would like to see it returned to Russia.

It is, of course, possible to negotiate a compromise, under which we will relinquish all of this land and make Japanese supply lines easy to maintain, but that would require Japan accepting the original French proposal, but agree to Russia keeping Kamchatka.

Also it is possible to grant Russia the Pacific seaboard and the warm-water port that we have purchased from China, in which case we will agree to the borders that you have pointed to during the Sino-Japanese war

 

[Symphony D.]

Russia never announced such a purchase to the Japanese government, either before or after it was conducted. It never announced that it was sending troops to the region. It never stated any of these facts before opening fire on Japanese troops, who were in the middle of prosecuting a war against China.

So Russia can either claim itself to be incompetent, or to have willingly fired upon Japanese soldiers and intentionally having failed to disclose information; we do not particularly care which is the case, as either was more than enough casus belli. In either instance, regardless of what Russia purchased from Qing China, that entity no longer exists, nor is Russia in possession of the lands to which Japan now lays claim. Japan is. As you Europeans say, all's fair in love and war. If Russia paid a now defunct power for land, and then lost it in combat, so much the pity for both sides. The only way our troops will be moved is through further bloodshed.

We would not be adverse to accepting the original French Treaty without Kamchatka, however, if Russia seeks to endear the ire of China by illegally withholding lands it itself has stated it at no time sought to retain indefinitely, that is its concern, not ours.

 

[Stormbringer]

Russia will only negotiate with Japan and France on equal terms. If the Qing regime does not exist anymore, then Russia, who had purchased land from it is not entitled to the land it had purchased. By the same token, the Qing regime that claimed Mongolia and Siniang as its land no longer exists, and the Russian government sees no reason to return the land to the current Chinese government. Either the current Chinese government is recognized as a successor to the Qing, and will thus honor all agreements the Qing government has made, or not. But Russia will not accept a situation in which it is forced to honor its agreements with the Qing government while Japan and the new government of China do not have to live up to the previous agreements.

 

[Symphony D.]

As we have stated, we will agree to the French treaty, minus Kamchatka, as the Russian government has itself proposed. With that, no remaining obstacles exist in our estimation. Any outstanding greivances with the Treaty now fall to Europe.

 

[Insane_Panda]

And France shall agree to remove all sections of articles corresponding to the legality of any actions within this war, given that Russia agrees to remove itself from Poland, Finland, Hungary, and Romania. France is willing to recognize Russia's personal union with Romania, if Romania is to remain independent, but we maintain that the Russian Union shall not be allowed agreements which are military in nature with the Kingdoms of Poland, or Hungary.