NesofWar: The Eagles Soar

To:States Rights Party
From: The Federalist Party


Well I think the central European states are a prime example, they all have a similar culture and are quite insignificant in the grand scheme of things due to their inability to group together and work toward a common goal, these countries are a window into the future of America should we be broken down into every state government

As long as national security is provided for, there is no need for us to intervene in the affairs of the world. If a European power attempts to intervene in our affairs, we can unite militarily against this threat to our liberty.

There is no reason why we should not divide. As I have explained, it is not a threat to our liberty. You obsinatetly refuse to accept that under any circumstances we should divide.

But what if we find a Federal Goverment threatening the rights of life and liberty? What if we find some states's interests being valued ahead of others? What if we find that the will of the people is that we should go our seperate ways.

You are unreasonable in your policy, for you cannot state unequivocally that these things will not happen. Call them unlikely, perhaps. But you cannot guarentee that they will not happen.

Is that the smell of treason? lol

OOC: What makes you think it is treason? It is my OOC view that there is no reason why the United States is somehow inviolable. Attempting to gain secession by lawful means is not treason.
 
Since you found my rhetoric deplorable, hinted from the tone of your own, I have written an IC statement concerning this. Reply if you want to.
 
I'm not exactly sure why, since the reason I'm showing up technically seems to be avoiding me, but I'm feeling compelled to join this. I'm going to lay a tentative claim to the position of Senator of Maryland. Before I post anything, I have a few questions. And yes, I did read the rules, through I didn't exactly see the answers to my questions.

What year is it? (Is it 1789? I'm taking this date from the conversation alone. Masada gave a birth-date as 1750, and dldnjstjr questioned that his person should be "39.")
What exactly happened to the people that fought the Revolution? I'm assuming that they exist in the time, since you state that "Washington defeated Cornwallis." What happened to all of those who signed that Declaration? And since I'm assuming they didn't drop off the face of the planet, why are they so quiet?


Sorry for the grilling, but I'm just trying to get a feel for what exactly is going on. I understand that its supposed to be a lighthearted take on it, but hey, I'm just that weird.
 
@dld, 1789

Warhead said it was 1789.

To: Guests
From: Edward J. Mann
Event: Book signing party at Mann Manor for On Government and the People

Introductory Speech

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome. Before I get down to signing your purchases, I would like to say few words in regards to both the book and matters of the Union. I do plan to keep this short, so please be patient with me, and then you can join me for a drink in the courtyard soon.

Firstly, there is a sentiment growing, surprisingly so soon, that in a case where the federal government turn out to be a tyrant of injustice, the states should be able to secede to form their own nation. Ladies and gentlemen, God and you all know that I am an advocate of states' rights in this government. A nation is nothing more than a lable placed upon a group of people gathered in a common location ruled by a common law in order to form a society. Family is a lable which represents group of individuals, where the father is the chief; city represents group of families, where the mayor is the chief; state represents group of cities, where the governor is the chief, and finally, United States, our nation, represents a group of states. Therefore, surely, states' rights must be adhered to and no single body can be a tyrant over another. If a single body were to oppress its people, impose unjust taxes for the tyrant's greed, and, or persecute innocents then by all means, we must rebel, as we have done and gained freedom from Britain. In all cases, ironically, we must then, set up a better government, where the governor, in conceptual sense, is an enlightened man, looking to serve the people, rather than rule them. As Thomas Hobbes had claimed in his own book, The Leviathan, a governing body in a group of people, in order to form a livable society, is necessary to avoid anarchy and return of men back into lawless wild. Certainly, in all circumstances, we all must sacrifice some of our freedom to this governing body in order to protect our freedom.

Suppose there is a murderer, who can, by whatever twisted logic of his mind, justify his murders. Does that mean, as a benign government, his wishes must be respected? Of course not, we will most definitely lock him up, try him, and put him to death. You and I have all lost our freedom to do misdeeds by committing ourselves as a part of this government, and rightly so! And just as in the matters of the states, a single, or even a faction of states, should not be able to simply overthrow the Constitution and the government just because they want to gain unfair advantage over another states, or an opposing faction. States should be able to govern themselves in matters regarding themselves alone. But when there are disputes between states, then all powers to the federal government.

Do not get me wrong, ladies and gentlemen, I am not saying such atrocities are occuring now; merely an example. But hear this; what is happening is that there is a sentiment fostering an idea, and this idea, is a threat to the nation. A certain individual, and his group, was saying that if a government were to get out of hand, then the states should rebel and form another nation. I see many nodding of heads, and I agree. But, a political party advocating that idea? That is like a person walking into a bank saying, "I will borrow this money, but if you raise to interest rate unreasonably high, then too bad, I'm not paying it back." Is that a right attitude to approach the situation? The bank will certainly not let the person borrow that sum of money. There is a fine line between pursuit of justice and speculative treason. We have formed our nation not long ago, and there are people thinking about secession? Instead, they should be thinking about ways to improve the nation instead of getting together to abandon it just because there is a possibility, however remote. But I must give some credit for those individuals for thinking so far ahead worrying about the welfare of the people. At the same time, however, they could be plotting treason. No, I do not mean they are, but I'm merely saying that there is a possibility. Then, by their own logic, we should be recruiting militia and raising army to put down these potential-could-be-rebels? No, no, of course not. What we should be doing now is to get on with our lives and deal with the rebels when they do rebel, secede when governments become a tyrant, and fight when we are at war. And in conclusion, therefore, let's get on with this party.
 
Lurking with interest for Thomas Jefferson (if allowed).
 
Extract from Charles Smith's Article, The Course for Our Peoples:
It is not claimed by any party that at this point there is a crisis sufficent to warrant the dissolution of the Union, therefore I will not dwell on the claim that there is one. But the prudent statemen looks ahead to any circumstances that could happen in times to come.

At the moment, the Union is a good government, as this allows for the collective creation of a Constitution which, even in the event of a breakup, would be a good prototype for the principles that could guide our nations.

But what if somebody attempts to install himself a King? What if, worse, a Cromwell attempts to install himself upon our republic? The plague of Cromwell was not removed for a generation, and it was the fortune of the Scots that they for a time escaped his tyranny.

The likes of a Cromwell would tear up our Constitution, destroy our freedom of religion, destroy our liberties, have his soldiers domineer over us, and create a tyranny worse then these shores have ever seen. Surely the best course for any state would be to attempt secession to escape such a catastrophe!

May it never happen, but we must be prepared for all contingencies. In such circumstances, secession would be the best way to avoid the grasp of a tyrant.
 
From: Albert Gallatin
To: Edward J. Mann
CC: Charles Smith


I wouldn't have formed a political party and run for President just so I could dissolve the Union. Remember, we as a people have a right and duty to overthrow corrupt governments. Should the government ever become intolerable, we should take action against it. It is not something that we can do if it pleases us. This is a duty.
 
To the Nation
From General Johnathan Plymouth Smith


This General would like to declare his support for the candidacy of Senator Ernest Brock of the Federalist Party's for the Presidency of these united States of America. Having seen war firsthand (since I fought in the Massachussetts militia in my youth, despite age regulations, because I love this country so), let me assure you that the only way to keep the nation safe is to keep it bound together and strong. The Federalists have the right idea.
 
To: Albert Gallatin
From: Edward J. Mann

That is why I pointed it out. It doesn't make sense if a political party was formed to send a presidential candidate to dissolve the Union. Although it is a duty to overthrow corrupt government, it is not right to have the overthrow of the corrupt government as a part of the party's main objectives. What will you do to achieve it? Simply stock up bunch of excuses-ready-to-be-used while government is just and unleash them as soon as the government go bad? What Senator Smith is saying are series of "what if's", and suspicion of one's own government should not be a part of those what if's.



To: General Smith
From: Edward J. Mann

General, although I understand your opinion and support for the Federalist Party and its candidate Senator Brock, I must point out that it is an immoral thing to do when you include your rank, "this general", in your declaration of support to the nation. It compromises the sanctity of the soldiers since the Army is a organization of ranks and orders and history shows that military involvement in politics do not have positive outcomes. Also, let me remind you that all of us has seen the carnage of war, for the war was in our soil; do not make the mistake that experience in military can give clearer perspective on politics.



To: United States Senate
From: Edward J. Mann

I will withdraw from the list of candidates for upcoming election.
 
From: Albert Gallatin
To: Edward J. Mann


I didn't say I was going to overthrow corrupt government. I didn't say that was a main objective. I said that I would overthrow corrupt government. I didn't say that this government was corrupt. In fact, by God's will, I shall prevent it from becoming corrupt in my time.

Senator Smith is a bit...enthusiastic, but there's no reason to believe he wants the Union dissolved as of now.
 
From: Albert Gallatin
To: Edward J. Mann


I didn't say I was going to overthrow corrupt government. I didn't say that was a main objective. I said that I would overthrow corrupt government. I didn't say that this government was corrupt. In fact, by God's will, I shall prevent it from becoming corrupt in my time.

Senator Smith is a bit...enthusiastic, but there's no reason to believe he wants the Union dissolved as of now.

To: Albert Gallatin
From: Edward J. Mann

What are you saying, Senator?
 
To: Senator Mann
From: General Smith


You assume much, however in assuming that I have no perspective you ride on the precipice of gravely insulting me. The relationship between government and military must be strong, for it ensures that the security is total. We never want another war on our soil again - by dividing the nation you guarantee civil war. Mark my words, if the Federation is weakened, the nation shall be torn apart at its seams and once again strewn with the blood of men.*

OOC: *rofl foresight aren't I clever.
 
That is why I pointed it out. It doesn't make sense if a political party was formed to send a presidential candidate to dissolve the Union. Although it is a duty to overthrow corrupt government, it is not right to have the overthrow of the corrupt government as a part of the party's main objectives. What will you do to achieve it? Simply stock up bunch of excuses-ready-to-be-used while government is just and unleash them as soon as the government go bad? What Senator Smith is saying are series of "what if's", and suspicion of one's own government should not be a part of those what if's.

You do not make sense. If the Union is worth dissolving, then it is worth a political party sending a presidential canidate to do so, just as an American might accept the title King of France in order to abolish French tyranny and their Catholic superstition.

We should always be suspicious of government, in case it should become corrupt. A government under suspicion of corruption does not dare act in a corrupt manner, lest they be found out.

Although it is a duty to overthrow corrupt government, it is not right to have the overthrow of the corrupt government as a part of the party's main objectives.

If a government is corrupt, then what you say is nonsense! One assumes you misarticulated, and really mean that a party should not have as it's main objectives the overthrowal of the Union. But if what you said is what you meant, then your argument is deplorable.

I do NOT advocate the dissolving of the Union at the current time. The basic principles, on the matter in which it got it's name, of the States Rights Party are:
-The Union is not a good in and of itself. It might serve good, but that is a matter for reasonable debate.
-The Federal Government should have no more power then it currently has
-If we are to expand, then the new lands should be partitioned among the States. This is so that we keep the mentality of a Confederacy, and do not fall into the trap of irrational union.
 
To: General Smith
From: Edward J. Mann

I did not mean insult, and I ask for your pardon. But this relationship between government and military is that of military's total obedience to the government, not as peers in support of one another. I do not mean to say that servicemen's political affiliations must be stopped; I'm saying that their position in the military, no matter the rank, not especially those of commanders of the army, should not be the basis of their political declarations, and therefore should be excluded from such statements. And have you thought about this, general? I'm sure there are other generals of your peer in rank who may think that the States Rights Party has the right idea, and both your supports will, without question, bring confusion among your subordinates. Then, do you mean to say that military should also be divided according to the commander's political affiliations, for the subordinates will try to mimic their commanders' sentiments to gain favour? There are, of course, those who will stand firm on their belief, but that will also create altercations if political addresses are given out in uniform, in rank, under orders. Even one cannot be permitted for the sanctity of the Army, who has the mission to protect the nation from threats outside the politics, which cannot be swayed in such a manner. Feel free to support Senator Brock all you want out of uniform and without the address of your rank, but do not bring your position in the Army in your political statements.


To: Charles Smith
From: Edward J. Mann

Sir, I must ask, what are you doing with my personal correspondences to Senator Gallatin? Unless further explanation is provided by Senator Gallatin himself, I will charge you with political espionage, theft of personal properties, and violation of private confidentialities.


@Warhead: Delete my political party.
 
Name: Mike Gravel (40 years old)
Position: Senator of Maryland
Location born: Baltimore, Maryland
Party: Federalist
Bio: Joining the continental army in 1775, Mike Gravel served with Washington's Army through the whole war, he was at all the major engagements Washington's army was involved in and survived. Receiving his officers commission in 1777 by wars end he had reached the rank of Colonel in the Continental Army. After the war he retired and began a career in Politics in his native Maryland.
 
To Senator Edward J. Mann
From General Smith


Of course, I did not mean to imply that military's position is anything but subservience, but my intentions were in saying that the military must remain involved. If you remove military from the equation of protection, then instead sycophantic bureaucrats sitting cozily in Washington will call all of the shots. Surely you can't want that? That'd be disastrous. Or, were you of the states' rights lobby, then perhaps those bureacrats would be even harder to hunt down, strewn across the states.

But since you seem so insistent on keeping military affairs separate from governmental affairs, then let me offer you a bit advice: Don't tell me how to lead my men, and don't tell me when I can bring up my rank in purely unaffiliated political discussions.
 
To: General Smith
From: Edward J. Mann

And what protection do you mean? Military will protect the nation from corrupt politicians by "[hunting]" them down?
 
To: General Smith and Senator Mann
From: Senator Brock

I thank the General for his endorsement and must comment that we mourn the loss of a presidential hopeful who was not aiming for the complete dissolution of the federal government
 
To: Albert Gallatin
From: Edward J. Mann

What are you saying, Senator?

From: Albert Gallatin
To: Edward J. Mann


Excuse me, I misspoke. I said I would not overthrow government now. I believe it to be just. I would overthrow it once it became corrupt. Under my leadership, I hope to avoid the government's slide into depravity.
 
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