Neutral Heroes

[Endovior]

As several people have commented that they'd like to see more neutral heroes (World Units available to anyone, regardless of civ or state religion), I've thought up four. If anyone else has any more, post them here.

Astar (Recon)
-A bold explorer, Astar offers his services to any who would take him. However, his wanderlust is strong... if left within the borders of any civilization for 10 turns, he defects, joining the Barbarians (prefers to teleport to Orthus or Acheron)
-Appears similar to a human Ranger
-Requires Tracking
-4 Strength, 2 Move
-Starts with Hero, Sentry, Subdue Animal

Dalton (Siege)
-A brilliant inventor, Dalton has succeeded in producing the most powerful cannon in the world. He offers his services to any who can pay him.
-Appears as a cannon unit with a Great Engineer standing beside the cannoneer.
-Requires Blasting Powder tech, Gunpowder
-12 Strength, 1 Move
-Starts with Hero
-Doesn't receive defensive bonuses
-Can Withdraw from Combat (50% chance)
-Causes Collateral Damage
-Can Bombard City Defenses (-50% / Turn)

Lord of Chaos (Disciple)
-A mysterious being from a far-off dimension, the Lord of Chaos is unpredictable, and his abilities are unknown. He may be very powerful, or horribly weak... it is impossible to tell until he is called.
-Appears as a strangely-dressed being (similar to Loki)
-Requires Pass Through the Ether, Chaos Mana
-1-20 Strength, 1-4 Move
-Starts with Channelling 1-3, Chaos 1
-One of Divine, Sorcery, or Summoning
-5 Random Promotions (can be almost anything, whether a bonus or a penalty, regardless of prerequisites, including high-level magic)

Thanatos (Arcane)
-The first Necromancer, long since become a Lich, Thanatos is a dark and powerful being. Has the power to control any Undead being he defeats in battle (Summoned units too; these join permanently)
-Appears as a Lich (perhaps with slightly different graphics for distinction)
-Requires Malevolent Designs and Ethereal Call techs, Death Mana
-7 Strength, 1 Move
-Starts with Hero, Undead, Immortal, Channelling 1-3, Summoning, Death 1

 

[Zuul]

Nice ideas.

Would be cool if the Lord of Chaos changed stats every 5 turns or something.

 

[Good Sauce]

i would love to see more heros in but im not sure its workable. we've seen how huge an effect one hero can have on a war. imagine a civ that manages to get a hold of 2 of these, plus their civ and religon heros. unstopable.
not that it cant be done, but i think balance gets more and more difficult with each generic hero added.
for instance dalton as you have him is definately unbalanced, thantos as well. love the concepts though.

 

[Endovior]

I disagree, in general. Heroes are meant to stand alongside the army, not alone. At the very least, you'll have problems garrisoning your newly-conquered cities in the wake of your hero-storm, and it's FAR more likely that you'll have trouble keeping them alive. Adding more generics helps guarantee that nobody can get them all.

Dalton's not accessable until Blasting Powder, and will require a rare resource. The research cost to get there is obscene, and the production cost will probably be high, too. That's reasonable power for such a high cost. Plus, it'll give some incentive for people to actually research Blasting Powder.

Thanatos... actually, you're right about that one. He's a Summoner too early, and with extra powers. Hemah could get away with it, but Hemah is less powerful. Switching the required techs to Malevolent Designs and Ethereal Call.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Hm... traditionally, heroes don't require any resources. Still, it helps limit one Civ from building them all. I think it would be great if once you built one universal hero, you can't build any more (including the Baron and Mary, by the way). But that's just an opinion.

Are you going to think up some good universal heroes?

 

[retro V]

You must mean Astar will defect if he stays within any civ's own boundaries. Otherwise he wouldn't have anywhere to go come tracking

Even so, he would make a better scout, available with exploration, no extra stats to a scout. The fact that he could get hill and forest defence boni and mobility 1 within at least his first 20 turns, without even fighting, is enough of an advantage. And make him defect like you said (unintentionally) when all the lands are explored; recon units are powerful enough without upgrading him to a ranger

EDIT: Perhaps make him arachnophobic, so he doen't get owned by spiders, he runs away.

 

[TheCowSaysMoooo]

I like the idea of a very early hero or two, like the scout. Definitely not granting a military advantage... maybe like giving the scout increased scouting abilities and defense vs animals (as suggested in the above and original posts).

How about some sort of early diplomat?
Available: When first contact with another civ is made (if that's possible, otherwise maybe with Trade)
Little or no combat ability
1) Slightly raises the diplomatic relations with any civilization who's cultural borders he's currently in
2) Can sacrifice him/herself in another civilization's capital to establish an embassy, which significantly increase the diplomatic standing with that civilization and commerce from trade routes from that city.

 

[retro V]

With the advent of new naval units near upon us, I give you....

Gyarados!!

We've got red ones and black ones, now how's about a blue one?

It could be restricted to water or not. Maybe make it slower on land. Water mana optional. Perhaps a reproductive summoning ability, like the Baron almost endlessly creates lesser werewolves, Gyarados could ressurect the dead seamen (stop sniggering) from it's nautical victories.

 

[Jarlaxle135]

What about limiting neutral heroes to those with no state religion or with free religion? That might prevent civs from overloading with heroes. Plus, it might make for some interesting back stories for the heroes. Just my thoughts.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

One automatic hero from Civ, two potential heroes (more likely if you're already the tech leader) from religion... I'd say limiting each Civ to one universal hero would be alright. Maybe take away the limit if they're neither a religious Civ or the Grigori, and have the heroes desert them if they adopt a religion.

 

[Sureshot]

it be neat if heroes could be rebuilt if they were abandonned by someone (so that abandonin isnt like them dying)

 

[Nikis-Knight]

What about limiting neutral heroes to those with no state religion or with free religion? That might prevent civs from overloading with heroes. Plus, it might make for some interesting back stories for the heroes. Just my thoughts.

There is no more free religion, and the Gregori have a surplus of heroes.
For anyone else to go no religion, these heroes would have to be overpowering.

 

[Jarlaxle135]

There is no more free religion, and the Gregori have a surplus of heroes.
For anyone else to go no religion, these heroes would have to be overpowering.

Good point. I guess I was thinking about how I never wanted to be free religion because I lose all my heroes. But, since free religion is leaving, it is a moot point.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

In general, try to think of a fun/unique mechanic and design the hero around it. Halfmoon is self-replicating and Mary has a very strong disease (she needs her rats!). Find the drool factor, as Kael says.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

I think having an interesting back-story might make up for a lack of a cool mechanic. If we must have a somewhat unique mechanic, though, make the redeemed demon have a chance to convert demons he defeats to his cause (the chance being determined by the target demon's base strength and experience).

 

[QES]

After the Apperance of Gyarados, i sense the powerful and potential enterance of Tragdor.... The Burninator.
-Qes

 

[Gamestation]

So we're pulling in heroes from other worlds now huh? All right how is this:

Prince Austin Lyle Forrester​

Starts with Excellector lvl 1, Dragon King Fruit, Str 4, 1 move, Honor tech required
I'll have to explain what Excellector and Dragon Crystal are:

Excellector - The sword that the prince wields, as the prince grows in power, so does the sword. Represent this in the game with the combat 3 promotion and Excellector lvl 1 allowing Excellector growth ability lvl 1 to give the prince Excellector lvl 2. With combat 5 and Excellector lvl 2, allow the Excellector to grow to lvl 3. The Excellector gives + str and + str% so the prince starts on the weak side but grows faster in strength than other units normally would.

Dragon Crystal - If the prince dies, the Dragon Crystal will be used up to ressurect the prince and make him appear in the city he was built in (marked by a world wonder called the Dragon King Tree or something like that) and under the control of whoever possesses the city. He might "fall" in this way to the other side if he dies and the other side had captured the city before.

Obviously a character ripped off of King's Field II (if anyone still remembers that game) but what is Gyrados out of Pokemon or the names of the Grigori cities out of Final Fantasy VII? At least think about the mechanics that I just proposed.

 

[Endovior]

In general, try to think of a fun/unique mechanic and design the hero around it. Halfmoon is self-replicating and Mary has a very strong disease (she needs her rats!). Find the drool factor, as Kael says.

In other words, more Astar and the Lord of Chaos, and less Dalton and Thanatos? Got it.

 

[Kael]

I think having an interesting back-story might make up for a lack of a cool mechanic. If we must have a somewhat unique mechanic, though, make the redeemed demon have a chance to convert demons he defeats to his cause (the chance being determined by the target demon's base strength and experience).

Backstory is the sprinkles on the cake, it is not the cake. A good game is still fun with all the flavor removed but a bad game is still bad with even the best flavor.

Work from drool factor, cool design and mechanics players will hear about and want to try themselves.

 

[Sureshot]

a neat mechanic for a heroe that might be nice would be a no-requirement national unit thats a warrior but a little stronger, and not upgradeable.

Champion (National Unit, limit 1)
Strength: 3
Movement: 1
Promotions: Leadership (something like the flag bearers, adding strength % to units in the stack), access to the entire Drill line, not hero as such and no heroic strength promotions
Cost: same as a warrior, or even replace the first warrior with it

my main thinking on this is so warrior or hunter rushes and adventurer rushes arent as effective early on