Never Before Seen Civs - Elimination Game

[The Kingmaker]

Boris, you've responded to the wrong post. All of your numbers are wrong and need to be corrected.

Edit: Thanks for correcting that.

 

[Kimiimaro]

not the Hebrews, who didn't even have a state of their own for (in Game Terms) the Late Classical to Atomic Eras

It's not like Scythia or Roman Empire had a state after classical/medieval era. Or that Aztec (and I'm sure that we will also have Incan empire and Mayans) empire was completely destroyed by Spain. Or that USA is about 250 years old. Or that Australia is about 100 years old.

 

[Manifold]

Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 5 (8-3) The Netherlands, on the other hand, had a golden and world-wide important age.
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA 16
Georgians 12
Hebrews 9 (8+1) In comparison with the others - but the Roman Empire was (even without the Eastern part) lasted nearly 1000 years (with Byzantine 2000 years) and it had a lot of self-titled successors - not without reasons!
Maori/Other Polynesians 16
Swahili/Kilwa 7

 

[Morningcalm]

Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 5 + 1 = 6 (The Dahomey would be the *only* civ to feature female unique units in the history of Civilization--the fearsome Dahomey Amazons; the ONLY female soldiers in the world who served regularly as troops. Even their conquerors wrote prodigiously of the Amazons' strength)
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA 16
Georgians 12
Hebrews 9
Maori/Other Polynesians 16
Swahili/Kilwa 7 - 3 = 4 (Having researched them, I am not impressed with the idea of them being in the game, especially as their leaders are also scant in details and stories.)

 

[Zaarin]

@Boris Gudenuf It's also worth noting that the mystical theology of the Greek philosophers, from Pythagoras to Plato, was essentially monotheistic, though Plato's God (the One) was far more impersonal than Moses' YHWH or Zarathushtra's Ahura Mazda--much more akin to the Hindus' Brahma. The early portions of the Bible also suggest a gradual transition from monolatry to true monotheism.

 

[Returning Lurker]

Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 6+1=7 l
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA 16
Georgians 12-3=9
Hebrews 9
Maori/Other Polynesians 16
Swahili/Kilwa 4

Benin were worldwide traders too! Two of their largest exports were black pepper and ivory, yet black pepper isn't indigenous to Africa and the nearest elephants are dozens of miles to the north and to the east lying in the territory of different kingdoms. Did Benin magic the pepper into existence and sneak the elephants through enemy terrain without any motorized transportation? No. They set up a trade network, buying Asian spices and planting them on native soil and taking tribute from neighboring kingdoms or exchange goods and services (some of those goods being precious metals, gemstones, and food. Other times they traded the historically ever popular luxury "not having a massive army march in and kill everyone"). Along with the Dutch East India Company's harbor cities in South Africa the Benin Empire became one of the most important shipping waypoints around the African coast, the Panama and Seuz Canal both being far flung fairytales at this point. Along with future Nigeria (who's economy is going through a VERY quick transition from a resource to a service economy), Oyo, Dahomey, and Yoruba South West Africa has strongly earned its place.

Georgia same reasons as before.

 

[Amrunril]

Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 7
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA 16
Georgians 9
Hebrews 6 (9 - 3) Very influential, but politically the perfect example of a city state. And I'd argue that their religious influence is not in spite of their oppressed political status but because of it (at least so far as early Christianity and many of the prophets of the Torah/Old Testament are concerned).
Maori/Other Polynesians 16
Swahili/Kilwa 5 (4 + 1) The game and franchise really need more African civs, and while it's probably less important than other arguments in their favor, it would be a shame not to include the civ whose language gives us the most iconic song in the franchise's history.

 

[Morningcalm]

Hebrews 6 (9 - 3) Very influential, but politically the perfect example of a city state. And I'd argue that their religious influence is not in spite of their oppressed political status but because of it (at least so far as early Christianity and many of the prophets of the Torah/Old Testament are concerned).

In its political structure, its alliance and/or diplomatic contact with foreign powers, and resistance of foreign powers, the kingdom of Judah was *not* politically the perfect example of a city-state. That would be Venice, who was featured in Civilization V: Brave New World.

As addressed earlier, Hebrews under Hezekiah and Salome Alexandra had dozens of cities covering a fairly large swathe of land. Judah was, according to archaeologists and philologists, the most powerful state on the Egyptian-Assyrian border at the time of Hezekiah's reign. Which may explain why Hezekiah revolted against the Assyrians (refusing to pay tribute) and it may also explain his alliance with Egypt against Assyria, and the cordial relations between Hezekiah and the then-ruler of Babylon. And Hezekiah was never replaced with a puppet king by the Assyrians, who after all, failed to conquer Judah's capital city's of Jerusalem.

Re: the religious influence, yes, Christianity was the religion of the oppressed, but it also became the religion of the powerful. It's a great deal more complex than a mere discussion of oppression when explaining their appeal, as numerous religious followers of all manner of religions in history were suppressed but failed to achieve the global spread Christianity and Islam have accomplished.

 

[Zaarin]

Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 7
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA 16
Georgians 10 (9 + 1) -- An important region that has gone unrepresented too long, with a rich religious and cultural heritage and an ideal big personality to lead it. And I for one was keenly interested in the inclusion of Georgia or Armenia long before the leader poster brought up the Tamar meme.
Hebrews 6
Maori/Other Polynesians 13 (16 - 3) -- I'm interested in seeing them included, but not interested enough to see them leading this list.
Swahili/Kilwa 5

 

[The Kingmaker]

Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 7
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA 16
Georgians 10
Hebrews 6+1=7 As stated before, absolutely NOT a perfect example of a city-state. Dozens of cities ruled by a single monarch make a kingdom, not a city-state.
Maori/Other Polynesians 13
Swahili/Kilwa 5-3=2 I'd like to see them someday, but I think they're out of steam at this point.

 

[God of Kings]

Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 7
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA 16
Georgians 10
Hebrews 7 + 1 = 8 This should be made into a civ; being a mere city-state isn't enough to do justice
Maori/Other Polynesians 13
Swahili/Kilwa 2 - 3 = ELIMINATED There's better choices

 

[Roman Citizen]

Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 7
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA 16
Georgians 10
Hebrews 8-3=5 Deserve Fifth place.
Maori/Other Polynesians 13+1=14 It would be interesting to play as The Kingdom of Hawaii, or The Tonga Empire, or a Maori civ.

 

[Siptah]

Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 8 (7+1) West Africa is one of the most interesting regions in the world for me (right after the near/middle east and the mediterranean).
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA 16
Georgians 10
Hebrews 3 (5-2) Not important as a kingdom. Rarely independent, and if they were, they ruined it and got beaten from all sides.
Maori/Other Polynesians 14

 

[UkrNixon]

Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 8-3=5 (Neither Nigeria nor pre-colonial Benin are influental enough, I'm honestly surprised they are still in while Swahili were kicked out)
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA 16
Georgians 10
Hebrews 3+1=4 (Are we really gonna kick one of the most influental cultures in history out?)
Maori/Other Polynesians 14

 

[Morningcalm]

Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 5
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA 16
Georgians 10 - 3 = 7 (The least interesting of the remaining, despite Tamar, who was a successful monarch).
Hebrews 4 + 1 = 5 (Too culturally important, suited for VI with the introduction of the religious victory, and as an independent state Judah maintained impressive diplomatic and trade ties with nearby civs from Phoenicia to Babylon, and successfully defended its capital and its king from the mighty Assyrians)
Maori/Other Polynesians 14

 

[Kimiimaro]

Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 5
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA 16-3=13 - While they would make an interesting addition and fill the currently empty place of Native American Civ, I already said that I'm not very enthused about them. I'm not against them, but I don't think they should be leading.
Georgians 7
Hebrews 5+1=6 - I agree and I'll support them too. They are interesting and great choice.
Maori/Other Polynesians 14

 

[RFormica]

Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 5
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA 13
Georgians 7 - 3 = 4 Better options
Hebrews 6 + 1 = 7 I agree with everyone who has upvoted this.
Maori/Other Polynesians 14

 

[Guandao]

Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) (5+1)=6 Pretty much most of the African Civs have no influence beyond their region, but does that mean they shouldn't be included? Of course not, the West African Coast needs a Civ, and Ashanti/Dahomey/Benin are all good choices.
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA 13
Georgians 4
Hebrews (7-3)=4 Sorry Hebrew fans, I just find their leaders less interesting than the others. Their impact on Christianity doesn't make me desire them more. I'm not a religious person.
Maori/Other Polynesians 14

 

[conorbebe]

Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 2 (6 - 4) I'm just not very interested, and their lack of influence doesn't help.
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA 13
Georgians 4
Hebrews 4
Maori/Other Polynesians 15 (14 + 1) We need more island civs and Polynesian culture is beautiful.

 

[The Kingmaker]

@conorbebe: It's customary to deduct three points, not four.