New and Changed Civilizations in 1.18

[Glorfindel of Gondolin]

Have you thought about making France a conditional spawn just in case the Celts survive?
I mean, if a smart human player would be able to keep them alive then wouldn't it be strange for France to spawn on top of the Celts?
Instead, the civilization name could change a bit or a title be added.
But it has to be unique and different than regular France civ name.
Maybe kingdom of Armorica, a province in France where the last Celts lived.

 

[Dracosolon]

It's not that strange for a French civ to spawn on top of a Celtic one, given that medieval France has its origin in the Franks' invasion of a romanized Gaul where the population was still largely Celtic ethnically.

I think if the Celts survive they should still be pushed back by spawns to mostly just Ireland and Scotland, with maybe Brittany as an add on, and even then I'm not sure. Brittany wasn't fully part of the Carolingian empire and had a relative degree of autonomy but was still basically a vassal of the French crown for much of its history so one could go either way having it flip to France or not.

In most games this would be irrelevant anyway since Brittany shouldn't be settled all that often, but it could be a bit of help for the human Celtic player.

 

[TwoF]

I think if the player plays for the Celts, then the situation with France can be reproduced like the Mughals with India. Let the French appear only in Paris and acquire a large army to conquer their core lands. And only if the player can stop the French will he survive, otherwise the script will work in which peace will come and the Celts will lose the core in these lands and Ireland will become the core.

 

[navivoleb]

WooHoo!!!

Endly a true historical russian UP!
And a proper building!

Leoreth u made my day!

Living in Russia, I also experienced a huge surge of positive energy when I saw the new strength of Russia. This is very funny, but historically sad =)

 

[Dracosolon]

What was the deciding factor for making Russia the new whipping/drafting civ anyway? Because the Aztecs' UB was changed?

 

[Kott]

South-eastern Asia starts to look packed at the level Europe is packed on the current map, it is quite interesting to try when it is ready.

 

[Matara]

Vietnam is way too close to its neighbors both in location and color.

 

[Kott]

Vietnam is probably intended to eat up southern China. It is hard to say without core/historical areas.
In Europe Italy starts in a precarious situation, but their UHVs are quite easy and it can grow into a big regional force.

 

[Bruhmoment]

Someone mentioned Venice recently that set us back from September 2026 to where we are now.

While you're at it add the Denouncing Venice religion too

 

[Dracosolon]

From Venice to Vemean.

 

[1SDANi]

While you're at it add the Denouncing Venice religion too

I prefer the Boat Mormons

 

[Logoncal]

I wonder how would the game behave with Shia/Sunni split in the mod, but only one civ would follow it at a certain point.

 

[TsimTsigal]

Regarding Russian UP and building - isn't it a bit too gloomy? Russia certainly is known for more than autocratic tendencies. Among Research Institute (which is honestly even more hot trash than even in vanilla, appears too late to change anything at all), Ostrog from Civ5, Lavra (honestly weird choice, but still) from Civ6, Banya from Realism Invictus, and so on, the Katorga was chosen, and it makes about as much sense as Crucifixion Camp for Rome - totally a thing, hardly something defining. New UP also locks Russia in Despotism (which is not exactly bad and even kinda in line with history, but blocks from even more historic Monarchy/Single Party unless whipping is moving somewhere else) or at least Nationalism (and drafting is hardly required if current UHV stays).

Don't get me wrong, new Russia seems to be very powerful and compensated fairly well (perhaps even too well, whipping is very powerful tool by itself, and Russians got cheap, almost guilt-free whipping) for later start and having to compete with Ancient Rus', but old UP and UBs both were more thematic and arguably better fitting the civilization. It would make Prussian UHV a bit easier, but honestly what makes Prussian UHV a (personal opinion) horrible mess is civ respawns which you can't hard block in any way, at least according to the code i looked at, and not long and boring Russian campaign and dealing with expansion stability blow.

Regarding other changes and new civs: very excited to see them all, and especially delighted by color changes (altho i will miss old Korean color). New Khmer UP initially appeared boring and uninspired, but then i remembered what their current UP is - and it's useful for UHV. France spawn date might be a bit too early and generous, but hardly a game changer. I'm also a bit afraid of SEA being overcrowded, while Africa still remains a black hole, but that's up to Leoreth sense of general importance of regions (and SEA is generally very underrated and underrepresented). Kushans and Vietnamese UPs are probably the most flavourful and useful so far. Poland changing UP again is not surprising (current one is kinda out of place), hopefully this thematic and fitting one will stay.

I wonder how would the game behave with Shia/Sunni split in the mod, but only one civ would follow it at a certain point.

Between fall of Byzantine and possible but not even guaranteed Ethiopia/Greece respawns only Russia is Orthodox (save for rare 3000 BC starts when Catholicism never gets popular). I'd say that Shia would be nice but not really necessary addition, since Shia/Sunni schism is poorly represented by being purely Iran/Arabia+Ottomans conflict (and Iran is almost always hostile to Ottomans and vice versa).

 

[ыьндук2]

I wonder how would the game behave with Shia/Sunni split in the mod, but only one civ would follow it at a certain point.

I think this is represented in the game, because Iran generally has bad relations with Arabia and Turkey.

 

[TwoF]

Regarding Russian UP and building - isn't it a bit too gloomy? Russia certainly is known for more than autocratic tendencies. Among Research Institute (which is honestly even more hot trash than even in vanilla, appears too late to change anything at all), Ostrog from Civ5, Lavra (honestly weird choice, but still) from Civ6, Banya from Realism Invictus, and so on, the Katorga was chosen, and it makes about as much sense as Crucifixion Camp for Rome - totally a thing, hardly something defining. New UP also locks Russia in Despotism (which is not exactly bad and even kinda in line with history, but blocks from even more historic Monarchy/Single Party unless whipping is moving somewhere else) or at least Nationalism (and drafting is hardly required if current UHV stays).

Katorga was relevant in real history only for a short period of time, when the socialist government needed to quickly prepare for the future Second World War.
It proved to be a highly effective tool at that time in a country where, until recently, the tradition of using prisoners in slave labor continued (with varying degrees of intensity of work and level of confinement depending on the century and government). In addition, the slow and natural development of the vast expanses of the country turned out to be just insufficient by the time of preparation for a future war.
Therefore, katorga is a natural instrument for Russia. The combination of a special prison tradition with large spaces that require improvements allows us to confirm the correct implementation of this building. But we must remember that such inhumane methods were not used constantly in the country, but only in exceptional cases.

 

[TsimTsigal]

Katorga was relevant in real history only for a short period of time, when the socialist government needed to quickly prepare for the future Second World War.

Katorga existed back in Imperial times, Stalinism simply turned it up to 11 with totalitarian efficency. But as you have mentioned, "whipping" wasn't really a cornerstone of Russian - or any other - eco, and periods of using forced labour by any country are already represented by Despotism.

My personal problem is making it a defining trait of civilization; it's a powerful and even fitting building/power, but it's like giving Germany equally fitting and useful for UHV Power of Starting World Wars. Surely Germans are known for things other than starting global conflicts - for example, they make really good modmods.

Also, i just realised that Buddhist/Muslim Russia with Emerald Budda or Blue Mosque is positively busted, and it's not even hard to embrace either religion (just venture to Central Asia).

 

[TwoF]

Katorga existed back in Imperial times, Stalinism simply turned it up to 11 with totalitarian efficency. But as you have mentioned, "whipping" wasn't really a cornerstone of Russian - or any other - eco, and periods of using forced labour by any country are already represented by Despotism.

Yes, Russia's new balance places too much emphasis on despotism.

 

[TwoF]

A civilization bonus associated with cold lands would look much more natural, because if you look at the distribution map of average temperatures, no nation lives so widely in fairly cold lands. Canada and Scandinavia are mostly populated in the same climatic zones as the Russian core, but Siberia is home to a huge number of Russian people, and there the average temperature is even lower.
Perhaps it is worth making a bonus for Russia in which Siberian cities located on a narrow line between the steppe and the tundra will not be weaker in terms of population and productivity than Russian cities in Europe. 1/3 of Russia's million-plus cities are located in Siberia in a climate that would be the envy of the harsh Vikings.

 

[Leoreth]

There is nothing more boring than "more yield from tiles the civilization commonly lives in" UP effects. If at all I would prefer changing the UB rather than the UP.

Also, i just realised that Buddhist/Muslim Russia with Emerald Budda or Blue Mosque is positively busted, and it's not even hard to embrace either religion (just venture to Central Asia).

Emerald Buddha would have no effect on the UP, as it only protects the city from having unhappy citizens, but the happiness/unhappiness values themselves are unaffected.

 

[Cypriot]

A civilization bonus associated with cold lands would look much more natural, because if you look at the distribution map of average temperatures, no nation lives so widely in fairly cold lands. Canada and Scandinavia are mostly populated in the same climatic zones as the Russian core, but Siberia is home to a huge number of Russian people, and there the average temperature is even lower.
Perhaps it is worth making a bonus for Russia in which Siberian cities located on a narrow line between the steppe and the tundra will not be weaker in terms of population and productivity than Russian cities in Europe. 1/3 of Russia's million-plus cities are located in Siberia in a climate that would be the envy of the harsh Vikings.

Hm. 37 million people on 13 million sq km. Doesn't sound like a huge number.