I'm convinced that is the problem with naval units atm. There was even a post in this same thread about city assault being too good, and that is basically just a worse vanguard promotion too. So if 50/50 is already too strong when stacked with 2-3 drills, then it probably means naval siege + vanguard is overboard? That's using the logic of whoever made that post since I forgot who made it.
I also want to clarify that I've yet to play this new patch yet, unless it got enough hotfixes to be stable and not miss anything? Idk yet.
Gonna go ahead and add one more thing to this since I feel showing the numbers and comparing matters when trying to make a valid argument and I feel this is something I can actually clarify on and share a meaningful opinion.
Drill line into city assault vs. Dreadnought line into vanguard + naval siege:
Drill 1: 10% CS and 25% CS to cities
Drill 2: 10% CS and 25% CS to cities
Drill 3: 10% CS and 25% CS to cities
City Assault: 50% CS to cities and 50% less damage from them.
Total: 155% bonus combat strength to cities without enhanced hp but you get instant access to city attack bonuses, albeit they're not as blown up in values compared to the naval melees. Without defensive embarkation which I don't believe melee/gunpowder units get access to you're not likely to unless in the ancient era to actually put units in the water to attack said city since they'll just get blown up by their RCS the next turn and basically waste the effort put into them getting said promotions. Definitely a moot argument towards the end of the game though cause of XP bonuses on producing units.
Dreadnought 1: 10 hp and 10% CS
Dreadnought 2: 10 hp and 10% CS
Dreadnought 3: 15 hp and 10% CS
Naval Siege: 75% bonus to cities and heal outside friendly lands. (Basically drills 1, 2, and 3 without the extra CS but you might as well be getting that from dreadnought)
Vanguard: 125% bonus to cities and 50% damage reduction
Total: 230% bonus combat strength to cities with some extra hp at the cost of needing to get 2 extra promotions (Dreadnoughts 1 and 2) to really lay it down on cities. Definitely becomes overkill by Vanguard since you just take 50% less damage, though at least now siege machines can actually hit naval units for good damage, a change I approve of and even i did myself in my own personal tweaks. That effort basically doesn't matter later in the game though since xp bonuses from buildings get you to said promotions with ease.
Conclusion: Drills definitely just a much better city capture promotion line in the early game but that starts to change fast since navies become more important starting in the medieval, and by then you've probably gotten some CS quests, or enough exp on a naval melee to get naval siege which is basically drills 1, 2, and 3 in one package without the extra CS. Though I feel Vanguard is the big bad one anyway. City Assault is already pretty good, and is about just as difficult to get to as Vanguard. It only needs one less level to reach compared to Vanguard for reference if I am not mistaken. It makes me wonder if the city damage reduction on the promotions should be split 25 and 25 between the city and the unit garrisoned in it that way you can't just blow up defenseless cities as easily but can still handle both the city and the unit attacking you? I don't really know but just something to look at.
P.S. not a fan of the field promotion changes and like everyone else not enjoying the coastal city changes. Played the patch for a bit things are coming along more nicely. Great job team! Gonna go ahead and explain my reasoning in regards to the field promotions.
My issue with the field changes basically boil down to it being more of a nerf compared to the previous field in terms of utility since now you have to rely on there being enough empty terrain, which while yes it applies to ocean tiles which is in turn great with the naval penalty removed, it removes the the overall area you want to use siege machines against land units. Granted a 5% RCS bonus and a 10% wounded modifier isn't exactly amazing, all it really needed imo to not be overshadowed by sieges 1, 2, and 3 was 10% RCS instead of 5 on each field promotion and having sieges 1, 2, and 3 get nerfed to 5% RCS and have that 5% for each moved to the city damage portion of their promotion buffs. I think someone else mentioned in this thread trebuchets and catapults weren't really used all that much against ships compared to hitting people on land during their time but having consistency in the unit line does matter, but the field changes don't reflect it as well as it did before in my own view. If anything the new field promotions feel like something that should be on the skirm line (which speaking of) how do you separate those skirm promotions from the standard ranged unit promotions? I would like to know please. Thank you again for your time and of course the effort you guys and the community put in!
