Theres been a few mentions of Orthodoxy, so I decided to test it and oh my ...
Normally even with a strong religion I need to use inquisitors in this game everything just autoconverted, holy cow its crazy.
The drawback ofc is that it doesnt provide anything else, ie zero yields.
So, I've finished a run in record time (less than a month!). Standard speed/size/amount of civs, random civs, Communitu_79a v1.16.1, King difficulty, no events/tech trading.
Mod list is standard VP 3-1b + UI mods + logistics skirmishers + self-modifying the modpack's Civ5Units.xml to add some of the 4-17 changes in.
Change list:
Code:
City Defense
Bumped CS on a few buildings
Castle 6 -> 8
Arsenal 12 -> 20
Red Fort 4 -> 6
Military Base 15 -> 25
Minefield 6 -> 10
Harbor now get +7 CS for city
Terrain
Improvements
Sheep + Pasture = +2 Gold, +1 Food (was +1/+1)
Oil Well - gives +5 gold on tile
Quarry -> +2p at Dynamite (was +1)
Pasture -> +2 food at civil service (was +1), +2 gold at fertilizer (was +1)
Villages - now gain +1 gold at Guilds, +1 culture at Railroad
Buildings
Windmills - Marshes and Lakes gain +2p/+2g; loses internal trade +6f
Trainstation - gains +6 internal trade food
Civs
England
SOTL - gains Indomitable promotion, loses Breacher
Units
Promotions
Land
Field I-III - bumped RCS to 10%; removed wounded bonus, replaced with 10% versus units in open terrain
Units
Helicopter already 6 move from logistics skirmisher mod
Galleass - now 4 move (was 3)
Removed Naval misfire penalty from all siege units
Combat Changes
Zero - reduced RCS to 60 (was 65)
Submarine - now RCS 65 (Was 50); CS 50 (was 40)
Carrier - now RCS 45 (was 50); CS 90 (was 70)
Nuclear Sub - now RCS 80 (Was 65); CS 70 (as 60)
Archer/Slinger - now RCS 6/7
Bazooka - now RCS 65 (was 62)
Helicopter - now RCS 75 (was 70)
I started the game before 4-17 and added the new changes half-way through it.
I rolled Siam, shared the continent with the Shoshones on the same island and Ethiopia and Persia on the other island. Since this is 3-1b diplo AI, all 3 of them eventually had DoF with me starting in Classical, although Haile and Darius I never liked each other and had a few wars that ended with little action. Early game had nearly zero war and it was just me taking the best wonders and beliefs for myself, thanks to my UA giving me an early lead.
This is my second tradition game ever (first one being the Korea multiplayer game right before this), but thanks to large forest clusters, the renewal pantheon and Siam's UB, and eventually taking Industry, I had no trouble catching up with infrastructure in my 4 satellite cities. Late game I got Centaurus Extractors and all my cities just casually built all available buildings and worked processes.
SpoilerScreenshot :
I didn't take any screenshots in the early game, so here's an Industrial screenshot of my whole kingdom (everyone else's still in Renaissance or Medieval).
I think I was mostly done with the Industry tree at that time. The AIs had started to hate me for the lead, so I hastily started training some military units. I had nothing but those elephants in the early game but the AIs never bothered attacking me.
SpoilerScreenshot :
Pictured: Persia('s attempt at) sieging Kabul. He could barely make a dent to the city, even with all those ships. Eventually we would make peace and he would immediately send a DoF request to me. We would continue to be friends until the final 50 turns.
SpoilerScreenshot :
Since none of the remaining buildings were worth building and I didn't need to use diplo units to stay allied to all 14 CSes in the world (thanks to Abode of Peace, Statecraft and quests), I had been churning out ships and land units at the rate of 1-3 turns per unit per city. None of the AIs would declare war on me or my allied CSes though, for the rest of the game.
Darius I got 3 of the Ethiopian cities and vassalized him, but would let him go in a while. They never had another war with each other.
SpoilerScreenshot :
Eventually, everyone took turn denouncing me.
I expanded my fleet, gobbled up every available wonder, and flipped back any CS who dared not allying with me, with excess production left. I forgot processes existed
Also, you see those landships? They would get 3 upgrades in a short while, draining my whole treasury empty, all for a potential world war that never happened. You can never have enough gold!
SpoilerScreenshot :
Some more boring turns later, I got the Global Hegemony with overwhelming votes. And then...
SpoilerFUN :
I decided to have some fun. I asked Pocatello to move his troops away from my borders so that he declared war on me without dragging all his friends into it. 4 turns later I had the whole island to myself except Goshute.
And then I got a CTD right after. The end.
My thoughts:
Terrain: Feels better. Marsh and lakes are worth working until agribusiness, villages (with both railroad and trade route passing) are good until the end, pastures/stone would also be if not for OP lumbermills. Now it's the camp that feels weak...
City Defense: Can't comment much on this because in my only war I was leading by 20+ techs, but Sukhothai had 198 RCS and that just doesn't look right. Should be better if I add the "Garrisons no longer count as a 'minimum value' for a city - instead, it works a bit like the old system, in that 50% of a unit's CS/RCS (whichever is bigger) is added to the city's defense. Still does not affect the city's RCS" change in.
Inquisitors: I know I didn't add the change, but if I hadn't bought and used any inquisitors my religion would have fallen to Ethiopia's missionary spam.
Cultural Victory: It's hard. Feels like you can't "accidentally" win a CV anymore when you're a runaway; you have to go for it - taking Artistry, targeting trade routes on culture-high civs, passing Passport System, etc. I had 13 Freedom tenets at the end but still nowhere close to influential on half of the civs.
Skirmishers: In my mod they start with Logistics and Cover II and -50% EXP, with much lower RCS so that they're expected to deal 15 damage to same tech tier melee units. Well, turns out they're too weak now (easy OHKO by same era ranged unit) and have become a logistical nightmare, since you need a road network to make them cycle while doing acceptable damage, and their spots are better held by ranged units instead when against a carpet of units. For regular hit-and-run tactics it's better to use mounted melee. I think I'll raise their RCS so they deal 20 damage per hit instead.
Diplomacy: While most of the AIs were HOSTILE or GUARDED late game, none of them declared war on me. Did my army and CS allies scare them enough so they just let me win? They didn't even try to conquer my CS allies. Not that they could, as each of those cities had 90CS and they were still using Ironclads at most, but still...
Cultural Victory: It's hard. Feels like you can't "accidentally" win a CV anymore when you're a runaway; you have to go for it - taking Artistry, targeting trade routes on culture-high civs, passing Passport System, etc. I had 13 Freedom tenets at the end but still nowhere close to influential on half of the civs.
So, I've finished a run in record time (less than a month!). Standard speed/size/amount of civs, random civs, Communitu_79a v1.16.1, King difficulty, no events/tech trading.
Mod list is standard VP 3-1b + UI mods + logistics skirmishers + self-modifying the modpack's Civ5Units.xml to add some of the 4-17 changes in.
Change list:
Code:
City Defense
Bumped CS on a few buildings
Castle 6 -> 8
Arsenal 12 -> 20
Red Fort 4 -> 6
Military Base 15 -> 25
Minefield 6 -> 10
Harbor now get +7 CS for city
Terrain
Improvements
Sheep + Pasture = +2 Gold, +1 Food (was +1/+1)
Oil Well - gives +5 gold on tile
Quarry -> +2p at Dynamite (was +1)
Pasture -> +2 food at civil service (was +1), +2 gold at fertilizer (was +1)
Villages - now gain +1 gold at Guilds, +1 culture at Railroad
Buildings
Windmills - Marshes and Lakes gain +2p/+2g; loses internal trade +6f
Trainstation - gains +6 internal trade food
Civs
England
SOTL - gains Indomitable promotion, loses Breacher
Units
Promotions
Land
Field I-III - bumped RCS to 10%; removed wounded bonus, replaced with 10% versus units in open terrain
Units
Helicopter already 6 move from logistics skirmisher mod
Galleass - now 4 move (was 3)
Removed Naval misfire penalty from all siege units
Combat Changes
Zero - reduced RCS to 60 (was 65)
Submarine - now RCS 65 (Was 50); CS 50 (was 40)
Carrier - now RCS 45 (was 50); CS 90 (was 70)
Nuclear Sub - now RCS 80 (Was 65); CS 70 (as 60)
Archer/Slinger - now RCS 6/7
Bazooka - now RCS 65 (was 62)
Helicopter - now RCS 75 (was 70)
I started the game before 4-17 and added the new changes half-way through it.
I rolled Siam, shared the continent with the Shoshones on the same island and Ethiopia and Persia on the other island. Since this is 3-1b diplo AI, all 3 of them eventually had DoF with me starting in Classical, although Haile and Darius I never liked each other and had a few wars that ended with little action. Early game had nearly zero war and it was just me taking the best wonders and beliefs for myself, thanks to my UA giving me an early lead.
This is my second tradition game ever (first one being the Korea multiplayer game right before this), but thanks to large forest clusters, the renewal pantheon and Siam's UB, and eventually taking Industry, I had no trouble catching up with infrastructure in my 4 satellite cities. Late game I got Centaurus Extractors and all my cities just casually built all available buildings and worked processes.
SpoilerScreenshot :
I didn't take any screenshots in the early game, so here's an Industrial screenshot of my whole kingdom (everyone else's still in Renaissance or Medieval).
I think I was mostly done with the Industry tree at that time. The AIs had started to hate me for the lead, so I hastily started training some military units. I had nothing but those elephants in the early game but the AIs never bothered attacking me.
SpoilerScreenshot :
Pictured: Persia('s attempt at) sieging Kabul. He could barely make a dent to the city, even with all those ships. Eventually we would make peace and he would immediately send a DoF request to me. We would continue to be friends until the final 50 turns.
SpoilerScreenshot :
Since none of the remaining buildings were worth building and I didn't need to use diplo units to stay allied to all 14 CSes in the world (thanks to Abode of Peace, Statecraft and quests), I had been churning out ships and land units at the rate of 1-3 turns per unit per city. None of the AIs would declare war on me or my allied CSes though, for the rest of the game.
Darius I got 3 of the Ethiopian cities and vassalized him, but would let him go in a while. They never had another war with each other.
SpoilerScreenshot :
Eventually, everyone took turn denouncing me.
I expanded my fleet, gobbled up every available wonder, and flipped back any CS who dared not allying with me, with excess production left. I forgot processes existed
Also, you see those landships? They would get 3 upgrades in a short while, draining my whole treasury empty, all for a potential world war that never happened. You can never have enough gold!
SpoilerScreenshot :
Some more boring turns later, I got the Global Hegemony with overwhelming votes. And then...
SpoilerFUN :
I decided to have some fun. I asked Pocatello to move his troops away from my borders so that he declared war on me without dragging all his friends into it. 4 turns later I had the whole island to myself except Goshute.
And then I got a CTD right after. The end.
My thoughts:
Terrain: Feels better. Marsh and lakes are worth working until agribusiness, villages (with both railroad and trade route passing) are good until the end, pastures/stone would also be if not for OP lumbermills. Now it's the camp that feels weak...
City Defense: Can't comment much on this because in my only war I was leading by 20+ techs, but Sukhothai had 198 RCS and that just doesn't look right. Should be better if I add the "Garrisons no longer count as a 'minimum value' for a city - instead, it works a bit like the old system, in that 50% of a unit's CS/RCS (whichever is bigger) is added to the city's defense. Still does not affect the city's RCS" change in.
Inquisitors: I know I didn't add the change, but if I hadn't bought and used any inquisitors my religion would have fallen to Ethiopia's missionary spam.
Cultural Victory: It's hard. Feels like you can't "accidentally" win a CV anymore when you're a runaway; you have to go for it - taking Artistry, targeting trade routes on culture-high civs, passing Passport System, etc. I had 13 Freedom tenets at the end but still nowhere close to influential on half of the civs.
Skirmishers: In my mod they start with Logistics and Cover II and -50% EXP, with much lower RCS so that they're expected to deal 15 damage to same tech tier melee units. Well, turns out they're too weak now (easy OHKO by same era ranged unit) and have become a logistical nightmare, since you need a road network to make them cycle while doing acceptable damage, and their spots are better held by ranged units instead when against a carpet of units. For regular hit-and-run tactics it's better to use mounted melee. I think I'll raise their RCS so they deal 20 damage per hit instead.
Diplomacy: While most of the AIs were HOSTILE or GUARDED late game, none of them declared war on me. Did my army and CS allies scare them enough so they just let me win? They didn't even try to conquer my CS allies. Not that they could, as each of those cities had 90CS and they were still using Ironclads at most, but still...
Just a quick update, I had a hard drive failure that is now resolved. Drive is stable now, I've been testing for the past few days, hoping to see a release tonight or tomorrow. Apologies.
Just a quick update, I had a hard drive failure that is now resolved. Drive is stable now, I've been testing for the past few days, hoping to see a release tonight or tomorrow. Apologies.
Just a quick update, I had a hard drive failure that is now resolved. Drive is stable now, I've been testing for the past few days, hoping to see a release tonight or tomorrow. Apologies.
Playing with the latest "extra version" posted a few days ago.
Its a bit difference in the religious war, I see the AI spams missionaries like crazy, is that to try and reform?
Also Spain failed to found ....
To clarify, your fighter will damage any unit surrounding the sweeped hex when trying to damage enemy aircraft, including your own. It has nothing to do with AA, which works fine.
Cultural Victory: It's hard. Feels like you can't "accidentally" win a CV anymore when you're a runaway; you have to go for it - taking Artistry, targeting trade routes on culture-high civs, passing Passport System, etc. I had 13 Freedom tenets at the end but still nowhere close to influential on half of the civs.
To clarify, your fighter will damage any unit surrounding the sweeped hex when trying to damage enemy aircraft, including your own. It has nothing to do with AA, which works fine.
Diplomacy
- Fixed major bug in reckless expander / wonder spammer code ("less than" instead of "greater than" check was completely screwing up both functions) *facepalm*
- Better targeting logic now also applies to religious conversions & artifact stealing, and fixed a small issue with it
- "Major diplo type" (which affects AI sensitivity to one victory condition, and some additional things, like opinion modifiers) is now renamed to the far more eloquent "diplo personality type"
- Improved diplo personality selection (considers more flavors, a bit more randomization, extra randomization if Random Personalities is active)
- Approach biases and personality values are now always between 1 and 10, inclusive, and are now randomized by +/- 4 (rather than 2) if Random Personalities is active
Difficulty
- AI teammates of humans now benefit from the normal AI production discounts, etc.
They were already receiving the A/B/C bonuses but not the production discounts, which didn't make sense
Also, since difficulty bonuses are meant to match a human at a higher skill level, if the human decided to team up with an AI, that AI would be underpowered, which is unbalanced
Obviously, adding an AI teammate at a high difficulty level makes the game easier, but that should be the human's choice
- Fixed a bug affecting building production costs for the AI (MilesLewis's change)
- Barbarian target range is now a general targeting range, not just used for trade routes (ilteroi's change, although I modified the difficulty stuff)
Is a "distance is estimated turns" check rather than a "distance between plots" check; range is configurable in DifficultyMod.xml
- Resistance Cap for AI players can now be configured in DifficultyMod.xml (was a hardcoded 50) & now works correctly for human players at different difficulties in multiplayer
Other
- AI will no longer send missionaries & prophets to City-States that are being raided by Barbarian hordes
1. It's based on the distance from their current position; they can choose targets that are further away on higher difficulties
Current maximum ranges (in "approximate turns" from the unit's current position) for next version are:
Settler/Chieftain - 3 (land), 6 (sea)
Warlord/Prince - 4 (land), 7 (sea)
King/Emperor - 5 (land), 8 (sea)
Immortal - 6 (land), 9 (sea)
Deity - 7 (land), 10 (sea)
Note that this means the barbarian AI can only notice camps/etc. that need defending within this range.
2. Maximum % bonus for anti-warmonger fervor against this player
Taken from next beta's patch notes:
All fighter pilots are permanently intoxicated, causing them to strafe anyone unfortunate enough to be close to their targets.
"Hmm, that destroyer that definitely isn't ours sure looks like an enemy airfield. Better put some missiles into it..."
I definitely find it an issue when something doesn't quite do what the tooltip says.
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