New Beta Version - December 20th (12/20)

[Earf]

I think a min amount of damage on cities is a good idea. I wouldn't go too far with it, as this would be the min amount. 10 or 15 sounds appropriate to me. It also isn't really necessary. Your main defense should be an army. A city caught without walls or a garrison shouldn't be able to do much to a barb unit. A single barb unit doesn't pose much of a threat either, other than pillaging your tiles, which is their right at that point.

 

[Tekamthi]

I was doing 2-3 damage against roman legions with defending city (though still on 12-1).. kinda pointless, but i'm not into the idea of min damage. The city was weak, and undefended this might've been appropriate.. it had strong defending unit though. Would love to see city attack related to garrison unit CS more directly

 

[bigcat88]

Unrealistic awful idea. A village with peasants do `min` dmg to my Immortals. Or to Legionaries...

Lets just increase walls and castles strength. Or adjust modifier for City HP.

 

[civplayer33]

A village with peasants do `min` dmg to my Immortals.

Even the Butcher of Blaviken was slain by a peasant with a pitchfork

 

[Recursive]

I've created a new build that makes a few diplo fixes & adjustments.

Savegame compatible with the 12-20-2 and 12-20-3 hotfixes; just swap the attached CvGameCore_Expansion2.dll file with the one in your MODS > (1) Community Patch folder.

(Note: Does not work for 43 Civs CP version)

To avoid confusion, if you're giving feedback or reporting a bug and you're using this updated build, please identify it as the 12-24 Build or 12-24 DLL.

Changelog:

Bugfixes

Fixed some instances where the disable victory competition advanced setting wasn't working with the new strategic diplomacy changes

Increased FRIENDLY approach weight for beneficial trades with conquerors or diplomats under some circumstances

Added a second failsafe check to prevent war declarations on friends (if this doesn't work, grrrrr)

Slight adjustment to AI peace logic (was a little too aggressive in not making peace, to its own detriment)

AI will no longer request Research Agreements from players they're HOSTILE towards or planning WAR against

There's also a small typo causing a diplo penalty instead of a bonus when you vote a civ for World Congress host and they win.

You can fix this by going to MODS > (1) Community Patch > Core Changes > DiploOpinionWeights.sql, searching for OPINION_WEIGHT_THEY_SUPPORTED_OUR_HOSTING (near the end of the file), and changing the value from 20 to -20.

Merry Xmas and/or Happy Holidays to the VP community!

 

[pineappledan]

Can the Terracotta Army culture on kill and work rate be raised a little please?

it’s the only work rate boost that isn’t a multiple of 25% and it’s making me twitchy.
10 culture scaling on eta doesn’t even keep pace with the authority opener. 15 per kill would track better with unit CS values.

 

[Recursive]

it’s the only work rate boost that isn’t a multiple of 25% and it’s making me twitchy.

Technically, this isn't accurate; the AI on difficulties above Settler has a work rate boost of 10% per difficulty level, ranging from 10-70%. Only the 50% boost on Emperor is also a multiple of 25%.

 

[pineappledan]

Fair, but the policies that boost it are 25% and 50%. There’s the possibility of a +95% cumulative bonus for humans.

 

[pineappledan]

I feel like that’d make them OP in early eras

Or however it works so that we don’t have to have these massive jumps in attack power causing these extreme differences between cities with and without castles/military bases, etc.

like, maybe the defense strength of the city should be a larger factor, so garrisons make a much larger impact on city damage output. The pantheon and the freedom/tradition policies that boost city damage are completely watered down by the castle’s huge modifier.

 

[ilteroi]

you can use the CITY_RANGED_ATTACK_STRENGTH_MULTIPLIER define to tune city attack strength.

but in general the code needs an overhaul, in particular it purposefully ignores the contribution from "defensive" buildings for attacks. so that could be changed.

alternatively consider my personal favorite option: completely disable attacks from cities. instead set the heal rate in enemy territory to zero. maybe create a trait / policy to allow healing again. but i realize that's maybe a bit revolutionary right now.

 

[ASCII Guy]

Perhaps local happiness could affect city strength.

 

[Kim Dong Un]

How impactful is city pop towards it's attack damage? I know Gazebo just started tying pop to city HP.

Last version I had an early war where Spain slipped a trireme down to an unguarded city of mine (no garrison and without walls). I did literally 0 damage, followed by 1, 3, 5, etc., after growing a pop and having to use defense modifier until I could garrison a unit. It was funny to watch the sequence - I imagined the mob of people (pop was around 5, no more than 7, if I recall) steadily growing along the docks and collectively hurling an increasing amount of debris at this trireme over the course of a few turns.

 

[ridjack]

instead set the heal rate in enemy territory to zero.

Please, dear god, please no. No no no no no no. I beg you. Attacking and sieging enemy cities is already a pretty unfun slog a lot of times, and my promotion choices already feel set in stone pretty frequently. Maybe, maybe if the heal-in-enemy-territory was added into the Drill or Cover promotions to make that essentially a requirement for attacking units, that could be workable, but otherwise I'm pretty sure a change like that would put an end to any warmongering I wanted to do.

 

[pineappledan]

Disabling heal in enemy territory would be incredibly damaging at this stage. It also puts late game warmongers into an unwinnable position, because borders cover 4+ distance from a target city, in comparison to 1-2tiles in early game. Late war strategies would be forced to rely on overwhelming human siege tactics just to make ground. It would also put civs trying to regain a recently lost city is a horrible situation

 

[ilteroi]

well you could still heal with a medic or through plundering. and the heal rate in enemy territory is only 5 hp ... but no worries, this was just an idea for discussion.

 

[ryanmusante]

I've created a new build that makes a few diplo fixes & adjustments.
Merry Xmas and/or Happy Holidays to the VP community!

Does this receive Gazebo's holy blessing of officiality? His ecclesiastical charge of purity?

 

[Stalker0]

Does this receive Gazebo's holy blessing of officiality? His ecclesiastical charge of purity?

Man remember a few years ago when all changes needed Gs blood seal of righteous judgement? god approvals took forever back then

 

[Teholb]

We truly live in blessed times.

/genuflect

 

[Recursive]

Does this receive Gazebo's holy blessing of officiality? His ecclesiastical charge of purity?

He merged the changes into the repository. Take that as you will.

(Most of the changes are bugfixes, in fairness)

 

[vyyt]

you can use the CITY_RANGED_ATTACK_STRENGTH_MULTIPLIER define to tune city attack strength.

Would you tell us more how it works? I always disliked how high the damage from cities was, so I was fiddling with this modifier a lot, but I was never fully happy with the result. In the end I settled with ok-ish values for every era which let ordinary cities deal about 10-15 damage to sieging melees of the same era (but the damage numbers go wonkers for newly built weak cities, etc.).

I would not mind seeing the city attack go, although disabling healing in the enemy territory and relying on pillaging only seems a bit too harsh to me - imagine the naval invasions when no friendly CS is around - these are already tough as they are now.