New Beta Version - January 8th (1-8)

[Chandler]

Read again, I did make some changes. In any case making a post on something doesn’t mean I’m just gonna do it all. Some of your requests aren’t really feasible.

Ooopsie... Didnt see them in my first read ^^u. Thanks! I'm eager to try this one and see how it goes with these changes

 

[CrabHelmet]

The free temple does not make me any more likely to go to the Oracle. It's just not enough.

 

[Ziad]

Eh at this point think of Oracle like a Great Writer/Great Artist combo

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

I'd prefer a free religious building (I'd recommend the Mandir or Order) or a free University upon building the Oracle, free temple isn't really that tempting imo.

 

[Ziad]

Neither would make sense with the building, and Mandir is already taken by Angkor Wat.

I don't like the Temple either but it's the only religious building that would fit if that's the goal.

University is just too strong for its time in the tech tree.

A free Writers Guild would technically make sense (prophecies...writing...getting high and seeing the future ) and it's on the same tech tier. It would also keep the cultural flavor of it from before.

 

[Gazebo]

Neither would make sense with the building, and Mandir is already taken by Angkor Wat.

I don't like the Temple either but it's the only religious building that would fit if that's the goal.

University is just too strong for its time in the tech tree.

The Oracle (of Delphi, basis of the building) is literally a temple.

G

 

[Stalker0]

The free temple does not make me any more likely to go to the Oracle. It's just not enough.

The culture/GA was increased from 300 to 500 as well. Not sure if that changes your mind but its there.

 

[Ziad]

For sure. I think the issue being raised is that the temple itself isn't that impactful as it all it offers is +3 faith and religious pressure. (The resource bonuses are incidental) with no actual effect like other buildings.

Personally I think it's fine. I think we need to just get over the fact that the Oracle is now situational like any other wonder should be.

I can see a Progress Civ taking it for a massive boost of culture if they're lagging behind. Authority too if they weren't successful in expansion.

In short, unless you have low culture yields or have a GA-flavored civ, don't build it.

I think one real issue though is how poorly the wonder scales with map size. That comes up any time we deal with static values as throughput. It's my one real concern

 

[Ziad]

@Gazebo

Have you taken into consideration the relative gameplay and flavor nerf Carthage has taken with respect to its UB? Given that it can only be built in one city, having its effect be +1 TR to a building that already provides TR kinda diminishes the uniqueness of it.

Maybe increase it to +3 TR?

 

[Chandler]

@Gazebo

Have you taken into consideration the relative gameplay and flavor nerf Carthage has taken with respect to its UB? Given that it can only be built in one city, having its effect be +1 TR to a building that already provides TR kinda diminishes the uniqueness of it.

Maybe increase it to +3 TR?

Hm... It also provides +2 to Lighthouses, +3 to Harbors, and +5 to outgoing trade routes, right? Keep in mind that you can also build it one era earlier. That said, I agree with you, Great Cothon seems now a bit less "unique" than before. And I'm not sure if increasing the number of trade routes would change that feeling.

 

[Ziad]

Hm... It also provides +2 to Lighthouses, +3 to Harbors, and +5 to outgoing trade routes, right? Keep in mind that you can also build it one era earlier. That said, I agree with you, Great Cothon seems now a bit less "unique" than before. And I'm not sure if increasing the number of trade routes would change that feeling.

Outgoing trade route bonuses are part of East India. GC gets a small bump but that's it.

The bonuses to lighthouses/harbors are great of course, but if you think about it, it's just +2 culture in every city with +3 production coming a lot later.. So it's essentially a UB that gives 2 culture in every city for a lot of the early game. That's nice, but is that really ... unique? That's how vanilla UBs were...

Many other civs have UBs that provide far better functions. Even the simplistic Stelae has 25% faith in GAs.

The real uniqueness of it was the trade route slots which let them have more trade routes than others. Now that's not even unique.

No need tor reinvent the wheel. Just add +1 TR and keep the status quo.

 

[ishmael_]

I'm still quite early in the game I'm playing, but I thought I would offer my 2 cents.

My start was jungle-heavy with some regular forests, so herbalists were very powerful. Up till now (soon gonna get lumber mills), I haven't worked the forest tiles after the very early game since yields are not competitive after improvements/herbalists. This seems to incentivize chopping in the early game. I've saved a few forest tiles to see how the yields evolve. This seems a really cool choice, and to me - a realistic representation, given that the yields get better for some era.

To me, Oracle was very desirable since I wanted to rush the Fealty opener to gain as much as possible from the faith cost reduction. It helped a lot, but I wouldn't be surprised if I wouldn't choose to build it with a more culture heavy start. To me, Oracle seems to be in a good place.

Am I supposed to be able to send trade routes to every city I can see? And the distance doesn't seem to affect the yields.

 

[Infixo]

@Gazebo
Would you please commit this version to GitHub? I cannot proceed with any work related to the new release without the commit.

 

[Gazebo]

@Gazebo
Would you please commit this version to GitHub? I cannot proceed with any work related to the new release without the commit.

I’m in meetings all day for real work. Will do when I get home.

G

 

[MorphBer]

Is it a beta thing that nerfs are pretty harsh? I just have the feeling that if you drop something by 50 or more percent it's gonna be pretty bad unless it was really op before

 

[Stalker0]

My start was jungle-heavy with some regular forests, so herbalists were very powerful. Up till now (soon gonna get lumber mills), I haven't worked the forest tiles after the very early game since yields are not competitive after improvements/herbalists. This seems to incentivize chopping in the early game. I've saved a few forest tiles to see how the yields evolve.

Funny enough I had the exact same start on my first game with the new patch, and my experience was the same.

 

[Gothic_Empire]

I’m in meetings all day for real work. Will do when I get home.

G

Solidarity. Our awful meetings have started, too. So much goddamn blabber about literally nothing.

We turned ours into a potluck tho, so that's something.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

Does it make any sense, Boudicca picks sainthood enhancer belief (science and culture for foreign follower), even his religion doesnt spread to foreign cities and he never even try to spread his religion to foreigner?

 

[Infixo]

I’m in meetings all day for real work. Will do when I get home.
G

Sure thing, thx. If possible, try to commit changes when posting the new version, that would best and most appreciated.

 

[Gazebo]

Sure thing, thx. If possible, try to commit changes when posting the new version, that would best and most appreciated.

I do it when I have time to do it.

G